When humans ALMOST went extinct

[Jaskalas]

emergence of consistent wet bulb event summers across the tropics

Still doesn't even seem real to me.
That the temperature could reach that degree in the USA.

But if/when it does happen, you can be absolutely certain that those vested interests in opposing action... will claim the wet bulb event was some conspiracy and attack by the "others". That the proper course of action is genocide/war against the "other" in order to "protect" against the next mass casualty event. Opponents will simply proclaim it was a first strike and "they" are "coming right for us". Etc, etc.

The reason to doubt our future, is that people are tribal and NOT bound by reason or logic. Humans DO NOT care about facts. We are completely driven by our Egos, set to whoever we ID with. There is an illusion of reason some of us wear like a mask, and it can be removed anytime we start to ID with something or someone else. If reason does not feel good, we ditch it. If our tribe grows too big, we divide it. Combine that with the American hubris, and we left ourselves completely defenseless to human nature. There is nothing stopping our people from becoming ISIS or the Taliban. And we are not prepared to deal with that.

 

[Moonbeam]

That's not unique to humans. A similar circumstance happened during the great oxygenation event, led to the first mass extinction of our planet. They at least get credit for not understanding how any of this shit works; we should know better.


I think you overestimate how good it can still be, and underestimate how bad it can get, as well as how much 'time' we actually have. We had time a century ago, we had time to avoid the worst of it 50 years ago (that was 1973, as a reminder). Now? We are very probably past the point of no return, we're just waiting to watch it happen. In all likelihood, humans will spend another half a decade waffling about russia, china, (and for us) fighting over presidents going to jail (while still burning fossil fuels at increasing rates), the next 5 waffling about the UK returning to the EU, more china, energy security, and legislation surrounding electrifying cars as well as securing limited resource for battery materials (while still burning fossil fuels at increasing rates) The next 10 years focusing internally on ever increasing effects from climate change (wildfires, flooding, ever worse heat events, ever worse blizzards, ever worse droughts, emergence of consistent wet bulb event summers across the tropics) .... (while still burning fossil fuels at increasing rates), The following 10 realizing we've actually, no really fucked the ecosystem and starting to really consider geoengineering possibilities, SpaceX takes it upon themselves to launch a solar swarm to limit the amount of light reaching earth, resulting in our very own Kessler syndrome, meanwhile mass migrations (leading to armed border conflicts worldwide) and famine result in billions dead (while still burning fossil fuels at finally precipitating rates, on account of all the dead people). That's my prediction at any rate.

How do you feel?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

How do you feel?

Hopeful that my sequoias will survive and lead to a beautiful old growth forest in a few hundred years.

 

[Moonbeam]

Still doesn't even seem real to me.
That the temperature could reach that degree in the USA.

But if/when it does happen, you can be absolutely certain that those vested interests in opposing action... will claim the wet bulb event was some conspiracy and attack by the "others". That the proper course of action is genocide/war against the "other" in order to "protect" against the next mass casualty event. Opponents will simply proclaim it was a first strike and "they" are "coming right for us". Etc, etc.

The reason to doubt our future, is that people are tribal and NOT bound by reason or logic. Humans DO NOT care about facts. We are completely driven by our Egos, set to whoever we ID with. There is an illusion of reason some of us wear like a mask, and it can be removed anytime we start to ID with something or someone else. If reason does not feel good, we ditch it. If our tribe grows too big, we divide it. Combine that with the American hubris, and we left ourselves completely defenseless to human nature. There is nothing stopping our people from becoming ISIS or the Taliban. And we are not prepared to deal with that.

So the real question, then, is there a cure for our Egos since you say that is the problem. One night wonder what the ego is, how did we come by it, is it a real thing? One night wonder who are we? Do some have more ego than others? Are there people who have none? How could we know if we see from within our ego view of the world? What is the relation to ego and a need for certainty?

 

[Moonbeam]

Hopeful that my sequoias will survive and lead to a beautiful old growth forest in a few hundred years.

That is not a feeling. Please be serious. How does the description you gave of humanity make you feel?

 

[cytg111]

All you shit posting on the human race…. .

You got reason to believe the next generation of apes is gonna do better? Corvids? Dolphins? Squids? Seems very likely to me that whatever species edges out on top and advances through iterations of technology is gonna hit the same damn inflection points every single time.
Its not time to give up its time to get to work.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

That is not a feeling. Please be serious. How does the description you gave of humanity make you feel?

Hopeful is a feeling to me, I am being serious. Let me be more clear: I'm more hopeful for the trees we plant surviving our apocalypse than ourselves.

I don't particularly care about what I suspect to be true, because what I feel won't affect it one way or another.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Our feelings are irrelevant coz shit happens coz that's what time does coz time is cruel.

TBH, humans creating things then fixing the problems created by their creations and then the fixes themselves creating problems <<<<--- This is God telling man, So you think you are smart, huh?

Only solution: Accept defeat, be humble, be one with nature and stop messing with things we don't understand.

 

[Jaskalas]

So the real question, then, is there a cure for our Egos since you say that is the problem.

A cure for human nature?
Not exactly, no. Ego describes a process for how our brains work.

There is the mask we wear, when we pretend to be reasonable. I think of it more as a treatment. It is always temporary and must be safeguarded against tampering, or... abandonment.

Through our institutions we can instill a common sense of belonging. We can use indoctrination to form a nation, a people, who will look to safeguard the institutions and the mask we wear. Who would instill the values of seeking truth through reason, logic, and facts. Not merely "the internet said so!". Kids must want to seek the truth even if it makes them uncomfortable. Instead, America uses "free speech" in a way that destroys these values. Our society is all hyped up on false information, whatever makes us feel better about ourselves. (Ego)

When it is our god given right to proclaim the earth is flat, or that the victims of sandy hook were not real, that their parents were stage actors....
Or that COVID vaccines are a conspiracy to harm people.....

Society only exists because we passed knowledge and methods from one generation to the next. We have institutional knowledge and structure. This alone, is the SOLE advantage we have over any other human at any given time. Without our institutions we are just cavemen. Without them we are murderers and rapists, we are no better than the Taliban, or ISIS, or North Korea, or Russia. Except for our society instilling the idea(s), the values, to do better.

But we Americans did not recognize that. We thought WE were superior, and in our inherent supremacy we did not check to safeguard our institutions, the things that actually improved our way of life. I see us abandoning the pillars of our own society in favor of clinging to false information that feeds our Egos. We are unmaking ourselves. At this point, any action to save our Democracy would also necessarily end our Democracy. The moment our people were crazy enough to cry "fake election", it was over. We are but a Hurricane that has made landfall. If someone wishes to proclaim that America yet lives, that there is still strength or life within... I will respond with "give it a moment". Just as a Hurricane's pressure will rise and winds will fall, so too will our people abandon each other and turn to violent ends.

All you shit posting on the human race….
...
Its not time to give up its time to get to work.

I am afraid the seeds are sown. Our divisions wrought.
What work is there to perform, that could possibly make peace and reconcile with MAGA?
Will we take the first step, and completely return to 100% in-person paper ballots?

Mind you, their minds are broken and at each concession they will jump to another conspiracy on how the elections are fake.
They cannot even believe a COVID vaccine is real. They will NEVER accept an election again. Our "Democracy" will never again have the consent of the governed.

What work?

 

[Ajay]

That's not unique to humans. A similar circumstance happened during the great oxygenation event, led to the first mass extinction of our planet. They at least get credit for not understanding how any of this shit works; we should know better.

My point, if it wasn't clear, is that even though we can know better and we can make change - we don't. It's literally not in our nature to do so. The facts are in evidence by our behaviour as it occurs before our very eyes. We've been this way for the past 5,000 years (or more). Look at history. Nothing has changed except that some of our technologies have put ourselves at greater risk (nuclear bombs, our ability to extract fossil fuels and use them to power our civilization). While political commitments, at least among first world nations, can help hasten our ability to stop using fossil fuels, it's no panacea. And those who rail on about party politics ignores the fact that we have alway been this way. When the roman people would get agitated over the difficulties of life and start calling out the ruling class, the leaders would buy more wheat, to put more bread in roman stomachs and restart the gladiatorial games to distract them with entertainment. How are we different.

So progress is slow, and frustrating to those of us who do know better and do care. We are making progress, but as we blow by the different milestones set by scientist (1.5°, 2.0° 2.5°, etc.) things will get worse, people will be displaced, we will be hit by flooding, draught and such that will lead to more deaths and huge monetary losses - at some point (and I don't think it will be billions dying) we will make greater and greater efforts to get off carbon based engines and power generation till we have done so. Unfortunately, the poor will pay the greatest price, but even some first world countries will decline to 2nd, or even third world status before things change - the ones who's geographic locations subjects them to the worst of the climate related problems and/or face the worst immigration crises.

 

[Moonbeam]

Our feelings are irrelevant coz shit happens coz that's what time does coz time is cruel.

TBH, humans creating things then fixing the problems created by their creations and then the fixes themselves creating problems <<<<--- This is God telling man, So you think you are smart, huh?

Only solution: Accept defeat, be humble, be one with nature and stop messing with things we don't understand.

This is, in my opinion, on target but the question remains, 'how do we learn humility whenall of our life experiences tell us that the humble finish last and that narcissism is the way to success.

Not everyone believes in God or pays the slightest attention to the humility recommended by people who have discovered the value of faith. I suggested consideration of God4.0 above as a possible starting place.

 

[Moonbeam]

Hopeful is a feeling to me, I am being serious. Let me be more clear: I'm more hopeful for the trees we plant surviving our apocalypse than ourselves.

I don't particularly care about what I suspect to be true, because what I feel won't affect it one way or another.

Scientifically thee may be four emotions based on facial computer analysis, happy sad, surprised-fearful, and angry -disgusted. Which do you feel is evoked in you personally as a result of the holding the world view you expressed?

The idea that you see the end of human life on the planet causes you to be hopeful for the sequoias in your yard can only be a weird allegory of some real feeling you are mightily avoiding in my opinion.

I wager this because there are sequoias in my yard too.

 

[Moonbeam]

All you shit posting on the human race…. .

You got reason to believe the next generation of apes is gonna do better? Corvids? Dolphins? Squids? Seems very likely to me that whatever species edges out on top and advances through iterations of technology is gonna hit the same damn inflection points every single time.
Its not time to give up its time to get to work.

Especially so when you consider that all of our problems arise out of a lack of self understanding, a result of the fact that we can be subjected to great torture via the use of hate expressed words. Understanding the feeling of guilt and sin, how we learned to feel them is the only real work required. Love you for sensing something deeply hidden within, that life is good.

 

[Moonbeam]

My point, if it wasn't clear, is that even though we can know better and we can make change - we don't. It's literally not in our nature to do so. The facts are in evidence by our behaviour as it occurs before our very eyes. We've been this way for the past 5,000 years (or more). Look at history. Nothing has changed except that some of our technologies have put ourselves at greater risk (nuclear bombs, our ability to extract fossil fuels and use them to power our civilization). While political commitments, at least among first world nations, can help hasten our ability to stop using fossil fuels, it's no panacea. And those who rail on about party politics ignores the fact that we have alway been this way. When the roman people would get agitated over the difficulties of life and start calling out the ruling class, the leaders would buy more wheat, to put more bread in roman stomachs and restart the gladiatorial games to distract them with entertainment. How are we different.

So progress is slow, and frustrating to those of us who do know better and do care. We are making progress, but as we blow by the different milestones set by scientist (1.5°, 2.0° 2.5°, etc.) things will get worse, people will be displaced, we will be hit by flooding, draught and such that will lead to more deaths and huge monetary losses - at some point (and I don't think it will be billions dying) we will make greater and greater efforts to get off carbon based engines and power generation till we have done so. Unfortunately, the poor will pay the greatest price, but even some first world countries will decline to 2nd, or even third world status before things change - the ones who's geographic locations subjects them to the worst of the climate related problems and/or face the worst immigration crises.

What you say here is based on the premise that you know what human nature is. What if you simply believe things that are false and at the same time are adverse to any sign that you might have the weakness of being wrong. Are you open to the idea that truth might not be something you would easily admit, like the possibility that you were made to fear showing any signs of weakness like being wrong and ridiculed for it. Nah nah ne nah nah. You're wrong stupid. How do you feel?

 

[igor_kavinski]

Scientifically there may be four emotions based on facial computer analysis, happy, sad, surprised-fearful, and disgusted-angry. Which do you feel applies from the world view you presented.

Is NONE an option? I believe in God so if He has intended for the human race to wipe itself out through stupidity, I don't feel anything about that. It's just is what it is. Nothing you or I or anyone else can do against Divine Will. Sure, we could be better humans but then we would actually have to go and start murdering the ones who do not wish to be better. If we let them stay alive, they will simply keep creating problems and make things worse for everyone else. 99.9% of humans cannot tell what's good for them even if it's staring them right in their face. So things will continue the way they are and progressively keep getting worse until they can't get worse no more.

I do believe there will be absolute peace on Earth on the second coming of Christ. Whenever that will be, I won't be alive.

 

[Moonbeam]

Is NONE an option? I believe in God so if He has intended for the human race to wipe itself out through stupidity, I don't feel anything about that. It's just is what it is. Nothing you or I or anyone else can do against Divine Will. Sure, we could be better humans but then we would actually have to go and start murdering the ones who do not wish to be better. If we let them stay alive, they will simply keep creating problems and make things worse for everyone else. 99.9% of humans cannot tell what's good for them even if it's staring them right in their face. So things will continue the way they are and progressively keep getting worse until they can't get worse no more.

I do believe there will be absolute peace on Earth on the second coming of Christ. Whenever that will be, I won't be alive.

I believe that Christ returns when the true nature of self is experienced. I am not a person of religious faith. I believe in the science of self knowledge and self understanding that was the aim of all religion. I believe that if you are a real Christian it will amount to the same understanding. But I don't look up, I seek within. God will be if only I can too. I could not go via the path of faith. All I know and it isn't much came from losing everything I believed and a flash of something that happened in the depth of despair when I suddenly awoke to the fact I was laying on my bed listening to the wind and that the now is all there is.

 

[Ajay]

What you say here is based on the premise that you know what human nature is. What if you simply believe things that are false and at the same time are adverse to any sign that you might have the weakness of being wrong. Are you open to the idea that truth might not be something you would easily admit, like the possibility that you were made to fear showing any signs of weakness like being wrong and ridiculed for it. Nah nah ne nah nah. You're wrong stupid. How do you feel?

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Enjoy your day.

 

[Moonbeam]

A cure for human nature?
Not exactly, no. Ego describes a process for how our brains work.

There is the mask we wear, when we pretend to be reasonable. I think of it more as a treatment. It is always temporary and must be safeguarded against tampering, or... abandonment.

Through our institutions we can instill a common sense of belonging. We can use indoctrination to form a nation, a people, who will look to safeguard the institutions and the mask we wear. Who would instill the values of seeking truth through reason, logic, and facts. Not merely "the internet said so!". Kids must want to seek the truth even if it makes them uncomfortable. Instead, America uses "free speech" in a way that destroys these values. Our society is all hyped up on false information, whatever makes us feel better about ourselves. (Ego)

When it is our god given right to proclaim the earth is flat, or that the victims of sandy hook were not real, that their parents were stage actors....
Or that COVID vaccines are a conspiracy to harm people.....

Society only exists because we passed knowledge and methods from one generation to the next. We have institutional knowledge and structure. This alone, is the SOLE advantage we have over any other human at any given time. Without our institutions we are just cavemen. Without them we are murderers and rapists, we are no better than the Taliban, or ISIS, or North Korea, or Russia. Except for our society instilling the idea(s), the values, to do better.

But we Americans did not recognize that. We thought WE were superior, and in our inherent supremacy we did not check to safeguard our institutions, the things that actually improved our way of life. I see us abandoning the pillars of our own society in favor of clinging to false information that feeds our Egos. We are unmaking ourselves. At this point, any action to save our Democracy would also necessarily end our Democracy. The moment our people were crazy enough to cry "fake election", it was over. We are but a Hurricane that has made landfall. If someone wishes to proclaim that America yet lives, that there is still strength or life within... I will respond with "give it a moment". Just as a Hurricane's pressure will rise and winds will fall, so too will our people abandon each other and turn to violent ends.

I think these are beliefs. Doubt made me abandon all of mine. You know the Zen story of the full teacup into which no fresh tea can be poured. Perhaps there is such a thing as emptying it.

 

[Moonbeam]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Enjoy your day.

I would say that is a pretty valid expression of what you feel. Sorry if you felt attacked by asking. I knew the answer but I suspected you did not, to your great disadvantage. Learning can cause pain and there’s no way around it.

 

[DigDog]

gonna post this video, but preempt it with the statement that, it's bullshit.

If we have SCIENCE facts pointing at this, then with utmost certainty, after we dig some more, we'll see that we had bad information - be it incomplete, or poorly sourced.
The reason is that 1300 individuals is too low a number in a higher-function animal such as a human, to maintain genetic diversity. In plain english, you cannot repopulate earth with 2 humans. Start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_population
Also this would imply those 1300 individuals would need to be in one cohesive group (therefore, in one limited geographical location) to survive inbreeding.
More likely, what the cited study says, is that a bottleneck was caused by a small group of humans likely discovering a new technology (idk, the fucking spear or something) which allowed them to easily kill the rest of their neighbors, in the region where the study takes place, and ONLY in that geographical area.
(but more likely it's just shit science)

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Scientifically thee may be four emotions based on facial computer analysis, happy sad, surprised-fearful, and angry -disgusted.

That's dumb. Where's wonder? Curiosity? Frustration? Worry? Sorry? Or any of the other thousand of emotions that makes up the human condition. For me? I don't know, some kind of solemn regret and a distinct lack of surprise. Animosity meets a healthy dose of Gen-x 'whatever'.

Feel free to label me with whatever you feel you need to, I know how much you love your boxes.

 

[Jaskalas]

I think these are beliefs.

Much was said in that post. Care to be more specific, what exactly do you not agree with?
My belief, from both history and current observation, is that humans are not rational actors.

 

[Ajay]

I would say that is a pretty valid expression of what you feel. Sorry if you felt attacked by asking. I knew the answer but I suspected you did not, to your great disadvantage. Learning can cause pain and there’s no way around it.

Sometimes Moon, it might be helpful for you to not act like an all knowing arrogant prick. I'm not mad, just annoyed. I just feel like I'm being trolled for no good reason. If that's how you get your jollies off this discussion board, well, you do you; but I'm unlikely to respond to you again.

 

[Moonbeam]

Sometimes Moon, it might be helpful for you to not act like an all knowing arrogant prick. I'm not mad, just annoyed. I just feel like I'm being trolled for no good reason. If that's how you get your jollies off this discussion board, well, you do you; but I'm unlikely to respond to you again.

Do you think maybe that annoyed doesn't fall under the umbrella of anger- disgust. You find my arrogance as you judge it to be disgusting and maddening that I would use it to troll. But to what end?

What do I get out of that? Perhaps you know what you would be feeling if you were to try something like that. I see what I was doing quite differently. I believe that all of this negativity toward any possible good in our future to be the result of an act of projection, the feelings behind how we see the world. A person experiencing negative emotions about a situation has defined that situation via associations that happen internally and I believe they also happen unconsciously. We do not know what we are feeling and that makes for an mental prison of impressions we can't escape, I was inviting you to look at what feelings you may be avoiding consciously feeling that prevent your escape. Imagine a prison that is a prison by the presence of invisible bars, bars that we imagine to be there and somebody comes along and walks right through them. He who has made a door and a lock has also made a key. And if you could yourself escape do you think you would fly away or come back to share the key. All I can share is that I believe there is such a key. Maybe you will find it even if I can't.

 

[Moonbeam]

That's dumb. Where's wonder? Curiosity? Frustration? Worry? Sorry? Or any of the other thousand of emotions that makes up the human condition. For me? I don't know, some kind of solemn regret and a distinct lack of surprise. Animosity meets a healthy dose of Gen-x 'whatever'.

Feel free to label me with whatever you feel you need to, I know how much you love your boxes.

Do a web search of how many emotions are there. Here are some results:

https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/how_many_different_human_emotions_are_there

New Research Says There Are Only Four Emotions

Conventional scientific understanding is that there are six, but new research suggests there may only happy, sad, afraid/surprised, and angry/disgusted.

www.theatlantic.com

The 6 Types of Basic Emotions and Their Effect on Human Behavior

Learn about six types of basic human emotions, plus find out how emotions influence our behavior and reactions.

www.verywellmind.com

Regardless of how many we want to consider, I don't believe that your real feelings were joy at the thought your trees would become a forest.

Because you struck such a pessimestic notion of our future, one that no one can see, but predictions about would be heavily colored by internal feelings, I asked you to engage is some self examination. You can try to do it honestly or not. Did you see anything hopeful in the notion of God4.0?