When did tipping become "required".

[dfi]

Btw, I feel that I should qualify my above posts by saying I am simply taking a course in payroll. All the above is what I know and have learned in the course. Please double check my facts before storming into your employer's office.

dfi

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by: miri
You guys must live in lenient states. In VA servers make $2.13 a hour and are required by law to report 15% of total sales as tips even if they don't make that. In order do make 15% after tip out you need to make close to 20%.

I can find no such law, can you point it out to us? The situation as described a few posts up makes a lot more sense than what you are saying.

 

[miri]

At least 15% is what my restaurant said is required of us to report by law regardless.

Anyway the moral of the post is, TIP if you want, STIFF if you want. The decision is yours.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Eli
Vic - Minimum Wage in Oregon was recently(Well.. Jan 1st, 2003. ) bumped to $6.90.

Also.. I saw someone say you pay taxes on the tips you recieve. You do?

My brother's girlfriend works at Subway, and they just split the tips at the end of the day.. it's certainly not taxed.

Doh! Forgot about the increase

Yes, tips are considered taxable income. Also, for wait staff/servers in restaurants where tipping is considered the norm (i.e. not fast food or Subway), the government automatically assumes that tips will be at least 8% of total sales. This is why not tipping your server costs them money -- they will have to pay taxes on income they never received!! Thank you, Ronald Reagan...

 

[miri]

One more thing, about that auto gratuity for parties of 8 or more. I don't think they can make you pay it. If you don't want to tip on a party of 8 or more just refuse to pay it. Nothing they can do.

 

[dfi]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Eli
Vic - Minimum Wage in Oregon was recently(Well.. Jan 1st, 2003. ) bumped to $6.90.

Also.. I saw someone say you pay taxes on the tips you recieve. You do?

My brother's girlfriend works at Subway, and they just split the tips at the end of the day.. it's certainly not taxed.

Doh! Forgot about the increase

Yes, tips are considered taxable income. Also, for wait staff/servers in restaurants where tipping is considered the norm (i.e. not fast food or Subway), the government automatically assumes that tips will be at least 8% of total sales. This is why not tipping your server costs them money -- they will have to pay taxes on income they never received!! Thank you, Ronald Reagan...

8% that the employer must pay, not the employee. The employee can only be taxed on the tips that they report. That might've been confusing the way I worded it before.

dfi

 

[dfi]

Originally posted by: miri
At least 15% is what my restaurant said is required of us to report by law regardless.

Anyway the moral of the post is, TIP if you want, STIFF if you want. The decision is yours.

I'm not saying the restaurant is lying to you, but it never hurts to double check with the law. Just in case.

Hrm, another thing just came to mind. FICA taxes are about 15%, which includes the employer AND employee's share. Maybe the restaurant is making you pay for the restaurant's share of FICA taxes? I don't know, stabbing in the dark here.

dfi

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: dfi
8% that the employer must pay, not the employee. The employee can only be taxed on the tips that they report. That might've been confusing the way I worded it before.

dfi

Your excellent post above was most intuitive. In order to avoid allocated tips, virtually all restaurants require their wait staff to report at least 8%, but don't require them to report any in excess of that amount unless the tips can be documented, i.e. by credit card receipt.
I know you probably won't agree with this, but when I receive excellent service I always tip in cash.

 

[Shortcut]

Originally posted by: Nebor
A business that cares about it's employees creates happy employees that satisfy the customers. For a restaraunt, you have probably 800 customers a day... you only have 50 people on staff though. Each server makes you about $600 a day. Each customer gives you maybe $15-20. Who's expendable?

The server - 'cause the restaurant won't make money without customers.

 

[Pepsi90919]

it just is, so just do it.

 

[dfi]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: dfi
8% that the employer must pay, not the employee. The employee can only be taxed on the tips that they report. That might've been confusing the way I worded it before.

dfi

Your excellent post above was most intuitive. In order to avoid allocated tips, virtually all restaurants require their wait staff to report at least 8%, but don't require them to report any in excess of that amount unless the tips can be documented, i.e. by credit card receipt.
I know you probably won't agree with this, but when I receive excellent service I always tip in cash.

Heh... actually I always prefer to tip in cash. Easier for me because there's nothing to sign, and I figure, what the heck. It only bothers me when people think waiters are entitled to tips, and entitled to it tax free.

dfi

 

[poncherelli2]

My resturaunt taxed us on 10% of our sales (that assumed you made about 15% tip on sales, tipped out the busser ~15-20%, bartender ~5%, food runner ~5%, thus leaving you with about 70% of your tip money left or about 10% of your sales). It sucks when assholes dont tip cause you actually lose money to taxes on money you didnt earn. I try my hardest to help my tables out, but some things dont always work out, as mentioned earlier, that arent your server's fault (bartender could be swamped, hostess double sat you so your rushed, kitchen had a mixup). So before you stiff a tip, at least talk to your server or explain your problem, and if your server really does suck and cant help you, get the manager. But dont just be a dick and walk out leaving a 0-5% tip and think you sent a message, the only message you sent was that your an asshole. Mistakes happen, and if your reasonable about it and talk to the server, maybe they can inform you the bartender is swamped and take a round of beers off your tab or give you a free desert for making you wait so long. This is a sign of a good server and you should probably tip them for being considerate and trying to help you out. This way you save money on the bill, the server gets tipped better, and everyone wins rather than walking out without tipping and having everyone be pissed. Im sure some of you have screwed up badly at some point or another at your jobs, but its not like you get your paycheck withheld and have to pay taxes on what you would have made. So before you screw someone, at least discuss what you felt was wrong with the service.

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: csf
Actually, a waiter cannot make less than minimum wage. If tips and base wage add up to less than the minimum, the employer is required to make up the difference. Please be aware of this and stop spreading the "THEY GET PAID NOTHING" misinformation as well as moronic ad hominems against people who have qualms with the tipping system. I believe there was a link to the Department of Labor website that contained this information; however I can't find it at the moment. If anyone finds it, do link.

In all honesty do you really think that an employer would do this more a few times without firing the employee? In that climate do you really think a waiter or waitress would even bring to the notice of his/her employer that they got less than minimum wage that shift?

Edit: I have never worked in a service industry myself, but that doesn't mean I can't feel for those who do.

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: amnesiac
Again, just to get my point across: Tipping is what is known as a "social custom" or "etiquette." Other common social customs are acknowledging a passer by on the street if they say, "Good morning!" shaking hands with someone you just met, holding the door open for someone with their hands full, not diving into your meal until everyone has been served, waiting in line to be served, et cetera. These are things that any normal, civilized human is expected to do when interacting with society. These are not laws, but as I said, social customs, so you are not at all required to follow these. You do not, however, have the right to complain if people think you are rude for not following along. This is how we have constructed our society, and if you don't like it, get the hell out. There's plenty of third world nations that don't give a flying rat's ass about tipping, and no one is stopping you from moving there.

How many third world nations have you been to? I've visited quite a few Asian third world countries, and I see people tipping there. Do you really believe that your first world "society" is superior to a third world society? I'll have you know that many of these third world nations have many thousands of years of culture and customs, as opposed to the 200-odd years some of the first world nations have. The only "culture" or "society" in some of these first world nations revolves around money.

 

[Trevelyan]

Man, too many of you guys just do NOT know what you are talking about.

Fact: Waiters/Waitresses make at leat minimum wage. BOTTOM LINE. It is required by federal law.

Fact: Tipping is not a worldwide tradition. It is not proper etiquite everywhere like some of you are trying to say it is. In many European countries tipping is NOT customary, NOR expected. The waiters/waitresses are paid more by the restaurant and the prices of the food reflects that.

I tip for the most part all the time, just because they do make crappy money. But the last time I went out I had to wait 30 minutes for drinks, and then another for food, and it was just a sandwich and a coke.

Needless to say, I left no tip whatsoever. Why should I? They didn't deliver even acceptable service, so as far as I'm concerned you get no tip at all.

 

[Ness]

Originally posted by: Trevelyan
Man, too many of you guys just do NOT know what you are talking about.

Fact: Waiters/Waitresses make at leat minimum wage. BOTTOM LINE. It is required by federal law.

Fact: You are wrong. There is a set minimum wage for employees who make at least $30 a month in tips.

Read the thread, check the link I posted earlier, then get back with us.


pwned.

 

[ethebubbeth]

since when did saying thank you become "required"? it's merely a common courtesy to tip

 

[poncherelli2]

it is not fact that waiters make minimum wage required by federal law. I've worked at 3 different establishments over the past few years and the most highest hourly salary i had 3.15, my current is 2.38/hr.

 

[Feldenak]

Poor service = no tip from me

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: Trevelyan
Man, too many of you guys just do NOT know what you are talking about. Fact: Waiters/Waitresses make at leat minimum wage. BOTTOM LINE. It is required by federal law. Fact: Tipping is not a worldwide tradition. It is not proper etiquite everywhere like some of you are trying to say it is. In many European countries tipping is NOT customary, NOR expected. The waiters/waitresses are paid more by the restaurant and the prices of the food reflects that. I tip for the most part all the time, just because they do make crappy money. But the last time I went out I had to wait 30 minutes for drinks, and then another for food, and it was just a sandwich and a coke. Needless to say, I left no tip whatsoever. Why should I? They didn't deliver even acceptable service, so as far as I'm concerned you get no tip at all.

Those European countries have the "tip" or service fee incorporated in the price of the food. We live in a country where that fee is not incorporated in the menu price of food and drink items, therefore it is expected that the customer add a percentage to the menu price commensurate with the level of service received. The only difference is that waiters have an incentive to be good here, whereas in Europe they can be as arrogant as they want and still get their money. I just accept that wait staff are due a minimum of 10% for doing their job in a reasonable manner.

However in that situation where you waited an hour for a sandwich, I can understand why you didn't tip the person. In the case of poor service it's really up to you.

BTW: wait staff do not make minimum wage, I know this from looking at the minimum wage posters that have to be posted in hospitals and schools. They have a different number for employees that can earn tips and for those who cannot. I realize that technically an employer is supposed to make of the difference but there is no evidence in the case of cash tips how much a wait-staff member made in tips, and an employee asking the management to make up the difference will soon be distrusted and soon thereafter fired. Just because something is on the books doesn't mean it really works that way, these things are impossible to enforce.

 

[tweakmm]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Hello Mr White.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: poncherelli2
it is not fact that waiters make minimum wage required by federal law. I've worked at 3 different establishments over the past few years and the most highest hourly salary i had 3.15, my current is 2.38/hr.

Can you read? This exact quote is on the minimum wage poster that is supposed to be displayed in your place of employment:

Tip Credit ? Employers of ?tipped employees? must pay a cash wage of at least $2.13 per hour if they
claim a tip credit against their minimum wage obligation. If an employee's tips combined with the
employer's cash wage of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the minimum hourly wage, the employer
must make up the difference. Certain other conditions must also be met.

http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/posters/pdf/minwage.pdf

Now if anyone else posts and says that wait staff can be paid less than minimum wage for total compensation I'm going to beat you to death with a wet noddle.

For those that want to browse the full federal code, you can find it here:

http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Chapter_V.htm

 

[dfi]

Originally posted by: sxr7171

Originally posted by: Trevelyan
Man, too many of you guys just do NOT know what you are talking about. Fact: Waiters/Waitresses make at leat minimum wage. BOTTOM LINE. It is required by federal law. Fact: Tipping is not a worldwide tradition. It is not proper etiquite everywhere like some of you are trying to say it is. In many European countries tipping is NOT customary, NOR expected. The waiters/waitresses are paid more by the restaurant and the prices of the food reflects that. I tip for the most part all the time, just because they do make crappy money. But the last time I went out I had to wait 30 minutes for drinks, and then another for food, and it was just a sandwich and a coke. Needless to say, I left no tip whatsoever. Why should I? They didn't deliver even acceptable service, so as far as I'm concerned you get no tip at all.

Those European countries have the "tip" or service fee incorporated in the price of the food. We live in a country where that fee is <EM>not </EM>incorporated in the menu price of food and drink items, therefore it is expected that the customer add a percentage to the menu price commensurate with the level of service received. The only difference is that waiters have an incentive to be good here, whereas in Europe they can be as arrogant as they want and still get their money. I just accept that wait staff are due a minimum of 10% for doing their job in a reasonable manner.

However in that situation where you waited an hour for a sandwich, I can understand why you didn't tip the person. In the case of poor service it's really up to you.

BTW: wait staff do not make minimum wage, I know this from looking at the minimum wage posters that have to be posted in hospitals and schools. They have a different number for employees that can earn tips and for those who cannot. I realize that technically an employer is supposed to make of the difference but there is no evidence in the case of cash tips how much a wait-staff member made in tips, and an employee asking the management to make up the difference will soon be distrusted and soon thereafter fired. Just because something is on the books doesn't mean it really works that way, these things are impossible to enforce.

Here's an easy solution to make sure that the employer can trust the employee's reported tips: have the manager collect the bill or the tips from the table. Then the management can have an accurate idea of what the employee is making in tips and make up any necessary difference.

If your employer is unwilling to do this, does not trust you, and you make less than minimum wage with tips, then you should probably switch jobs. Really, why would you want to work where you are mistrusted anyways?

dfi

 

[dfi]

Originally posted by: rahvin

Originally posted by: poncherelli2
it is not fact that waiters make minimum wage required by federal law. I've worked at 3 different establishments over the past few years and the most highest hourly salary i had 3.15, my current is 2.38/hr.

Can you read? This exact quote is on the minimum wage poster that is supposed to be displayed in your place of employment:

Tip Credit ? Employers of ?tipped employees? must pay a cash wage of at least $2.13 per hour if they
claim a tip credit against their minimum wage obligation. If an employee's tips combined with the
employer's cash wage of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the minimum hourly wage, the employer
must make up the difference. Certain other conditions must also be met.

http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/posters/pdf/minwage.pdf

Now if anyone else posts and says that wait staff can be paid less than minimum wage for total compensation I'm going to beat you to death with a wet noddle.

For those that want to browse the full federal code, you can find it here:

http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Chapter_V.htm

Yes, please, can we just establish this first? I wrote some really lengthy posts above but the basic point is: waiters MUST receive minimum wage. That's why it's called MINIMUM wage. The employer is allowed to pay you LESS than minimum wage, and then pay you the difference if you don't make it up in tips. But no matter what, by law, you are required at the end of the month to have received AT LEAST minimum wage for the hours you worked.

If we can just all agree on this because it is the law, then we can move on to what some employers are doing, perhaps illegally.

dfi

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: rahvin

Originally posted by: poncherelli2 it is not fact that waiters make minimum wage required by federal law. I've worked at 3 different establishments over the past few years and the most highest hourly salary i had 3.15, my current is 2.38/hr.

Can you read? This exact quote is on the minimum wage poster that is supposed to be displayed in your place of employment:

Tip Credit ? Employers of ?tipped employees? must pay a cash wage of at least $2.13 per hour if they claim a tip credit against their minimum wage obligation. If an employee's tips combined with the employer's cash wage of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference. Certain other conditions must also be met.

http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/posters/pdf/minwage.pdf Now if anyone else posts and says that wait staff can be paid less than minimum wage for total compensation I'm going to beat you to death with a wet noddle. For those that want to browse the full federal code, you can find it here: http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Chapter_V.htm

I have never worked in a service industry. However, with a basic knowledge of law I can tell you that laws written in law books have to be enforced. The enforcement of the federal minimum wage even without the complexities of tipping is not all that great.
When you have a situation where cash tips are involved it is nearly impossible for an employee to prove that they got less that $5.15 that hour. The employer might pay to make up the difference a few times, but sooner or later the employer will mistrust the employee and sooner or later the employee will be fired. People are expected to make enough in tips without going to the employer to make up the difference. This is how the real world works.

This is the third time I am saying this in this thread: this law is impossible to enforce. Again, there is no way in a cash tipping situation to prove somebody made less than $5.15 in a particular hour while serving tables. In addition the real world repercussions of going to your employer to make up the difference involves traveling on the road to dismissal.

In the real world tips are a neccessity where menu prices do not include service charges. Many people seem to be living in a world far from the real world, and some have no compassion for real people. Aside from poor service, wait staff should get a tip so that they can afford to eat also. Let's not hide behind books and laws to find excuses to stiff out of a decent living.