When did the country coalesce into red vs. blue states?

[fskimospy]

The polarization that has afflicted our country goes far beyond individual politicians or individual strategies. The southern strategy makes no sense as to why polarization is taking place at the same rates in counties in the northeast.

Like I said before, if you don't look at states, but look at neighborhoods, you'll see this phenomenon is made from a million small choices, not any large ones.

 

[GenHoth]

Originally posted by: seemingly random
It turns out that urban vs rural is really educated vs uneducated.

The inner city vs white trash, the ultimate throw down!

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: GenHoth

Originally posted by: seemingly random
It turns out that urban vs rural is really educated vs uneducated.

The inner city vs white trash, the ultimate throw down!

Funny you caught this so quickly. I suppose that urban should really suburban.

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: Muse
It seems to me that this is a relatively recent phenomenon. Back in the 60's and 70's IIRC they didn't speak in terms of red vs. blue states. I am unaware that there was nearly as much emphasis on swing states, even. In recent elections certain states are considered in the bank and the major parties don't bother spending campaign money there. How did this come to be? It seems to me that this trend is very lamentable.

What's the cause of the red vs. blue stratification of America?

I think it might have had something to do with slavery, secession, and some sort of confederacy. But I could be wrong.

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Muse
It seems to me that this is a relatively recent phenomenon. Back in the 60's and 70's IIRC they didn't speak in terms of red vs. blue states. I am unaware that there was nearly as much emphasis on swing states, even. In recent elections certain states are considered in the bank and the major parties don't bother spending campaign money there. How did this come to be? It seems to me that this trend is very lamentable.

What's the cause of the red vs. blue stratification of America?

welcome to politics of the last 2 decades...

Oh, I'm there/here. How did it get this way? What is causing this? What is it? Why is it that there's a big swath of red states, generally un-urbanized compared to the blue states? What is the experience, the reasoning of the inhabitants of the red states? I'm curious. Posting here is easier than buying a camper and taking a 5 year trip through America talking to people, although that would undoubtedly be very informative!

IMO, it's more about urban vs rural. Looking here in Iowa there are many "red" counties and some "blue" ones. The "blue" ones are urban and "red" are rural. There are many reasons for this but it's my opinion that ideals and values have a big part in that.

Exactly. When all you are ever exposed to is the same group of small minded dipshits, then it's going to be pretty difficult for you to become anything other than a small minded dipshit.

Urban areas are more resistant to this because everyone naturally interacts and intermingles with a bigger variety of people. You realize that everyone is different, and that everyone has some good and some bad in them, usually with a little hypocrite mixed in. You learn that in order to fairly evaluate people, you need to look at ALL of their behavior as a whole and determine for yourself whether or not they are "good people". You learn that automatically ostracizing someone for one aspect of their behavior is small minded and foolish.

Put in an urban living situation, even a small minded dipshit would eventually see through the propaganda he was force-fed growing up. He might even become a productive member of society.

 

[jeffw2767602]

Haha I made a comment to my Republican friend about how all the red states were the "redneck" states and the blue ones were "civilized". He had no rebuttal. I was only kidding of course (maybe serious to some degree). I live in West Virginia so I am in the heart of the Republican bible belt. I really don't understand how they form some of their opinions and would like to know what is going on inside of their domes haha. The friend I spoke of by the way is very intelligent but is subject to the same small minded bullshit someone else spoke of in the above thread. Most of his views are actually very liberal but because his daddy votes Republican so does he.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Muse
It seems to me that this is a relatively recent phenomenon. Back in the 60's and 70's IIRC they didn't speak in terms of red vs. blue states. I am unaware that there was nearly as much emphasis on swing states, even. In recent elections certain states are considered in the bank and the major parties don't bother spending campaign money there. How did this come to be? It seems to me that this trend is very lamentable.

What's the cause of the red vs. blue stratification of America?

welcome to politics of the last 2 decades...

Oh, I'm there/here. How did it get this way? What is causing this? What is it? Why is it that there's a big swath of red states, generally un-urbanized compared to the blue states? What is the experience, the reasoning of the inhabitants of the red states? I'm curious. Posting here is easier than buying a camper and taking a 5 year trip through America talking to people, although that would undoubtedly be very informative!

IMO, it's more about urban vs rural. Looking here in Iowa there are many "red" counties and some "blue" ones. The "blue" ones are urban and "red" are rural. There are many reasons for this but it's my opinion that ideals and values have a big part in that.

/thread

It turns out that urban vs rural is really educated vs uneducated.

Yep. Many of the city folk have had there common sense educated out of them. :laugh:

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
...
Yep. Many of the city folk have had there common sense educated out of them. :laugh:

Can't argue with that.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: techs
Hercules?



(obscure computer related reference that shows my age)

Meh. Bunch of children in this forum.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Muse
It seems to me that this is a relatively recent phenomenon. Back in the 60's and 70's IIRC they didn't speak in terms of red vs. blue states. I am unaware that there was nearly as much emphasis on swing states, even. In recent elections certain states are considered in the bank and the major parties don't bother spending campaign money there. How did this come to be? It seems to me that this trend is very lamentable.

What's the cause of the red vs. blue stratification of America?

welcome to politics of the last 2 decades...

Oh, I'm there/here. How did it get this way? What is causing this? What is it? Why is it that there's a big swath of red states, generally un-urbanized compared to the blue states? What is the experience, the reasoning of the inhabitants of the red states? I'm curious. Posting here is easier than buying a camper and taking a 5 year trip through America talking to people, although that would undoubtedly be very informative!

IMO, it's more about urban vs rural. Looking here in Iowa there are many "red" counties and some "blue" ones. The "blue" ones are urban and "red" are rural. There are many reasons for this but it's my opinion that ideals and values have a big part in that.

/thread

It turns out that urban vs rural is really educated vs uneducated.

Yep. Many of the city folk have had there common sense educated out of them. :laugh:

Yeah, it's been observed that there's nothing worse than an educated fool. Well, there's education and there's education. I kind of like this take on it, though: rural vs. urban = uneducated vs. educated = red vs. blue.

 

[trenchfoot]

Isolation, especially the kind that is created by choice, is anachronistically catastrophic.

Pres. Elect Barry is the antithesis of those that choose to be isolated. They will be left behind or found lagging in their crimson palaces.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Muse
It seems to me that this is a relatively recent phenomenon. Back in the 60's and 70's IIRC they didn't speak in terms of red vs. blue states. I am unaware that there was nearly as much emphasis on swing states, even. In recent elections certain states are considered in the bank and the major parties don't bother spending campaign money there. How did this come to be? It seems to me that this trend is very lamentable.

Topic Title: When did the country coalesce into red vs. blue states?
Topic Summary: What's the cause?

What's the cause of the red vs. blue stratification of America?

Simply look at the vileness of the Republican posters in here and you have your answer.

Simply turn on the radio and you hear only the likes of Rush, Hannity, Ingram, Savage et al with no opposing voices because the Republicans control the corporations that control the "Public" airwaves.

I have made it my mission to get said public airwaves back from the vile Republicans.

 

[BigDH01]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
IMO, it's more about urban vs rural. Looking here in Iowa there are many "red" counties and some "blue" ones. The "blue" ones are urban and "red" are rural. There are many reasons for this but it's my opinion that ideals and values have a big part in that.

I don't think it's that simple this year.

Map of Iowa

It's not a very good map but shows that rural counties in the northeast north and some to the west and soutwest went Obama. I'm from the western part of the state and can tell you that some of those counties along the I-80 corridor are pretty desolate. Then you have those western counties that include Council Bluffs and Sioux City which went heavily for McCain.

Basically, in Iowa it looked to be just as much about geography as urban vs rural. The closer you get to Illinois, the more progressive the area and the closer you get to Nebraska, the more conservative the area.

Look at Adams county in southwest Iowa. It had 2194 votes and went Obama. Just slightly to the west you have suburbs of Omaha in Pottawattamie county with slightly over 42000 votes that went McCain.

Of interest is the fact that McCain won every county on Iowa's western border and Obama won every county of Iowa's eastern border. There was also an exact tie in Iowa County.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: BigDH01

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
IMO, it's more about urban vs rural. Looking here in Iowa there are many "red" counties and some "blue" ones. The "blue" ones are urban and "red" are rural. There are many reasons for this but it's my opinion that ideals and values have a big part in that.

I don't think it's that simple this year.

Map of Iowa

It's not a very good map but shows that rural counties in the northeast north and some to the west and soutwest went Obama. I'm from the western part of the state and can tell you that some of those counties along the I-80 corridor are pretty desolate. Then you have those western counties that include Council Bluffs and Sioux City which went heavily for McCain.

Basically, in Iowa it looked to be just as much about geography as urban vs rural. The closer you get to Illinois, the more progressive the area and the closer you get to Nebraska, the more conservative the area.

Look at Adams county in southwest Iowa. It had 2194 votes and went Obama. Just slightly to the west you have suburbs of Omaha in Pottawattamie county with slightly over 42000 votes that went McCain.

Of interest is the fact that McCain won every county on Iowa's western border and Obama won every county of Iowa's eastern border. There was also an exact tie in Iowa County.

This just goes to show that trying to fit people into neat categories fails. But we'll keep trying.

In my experience, the people who believe such drivel as 'obama is muslim' are uneducated. There are exceptions which usually are educated people with other agendas saying that it's true but don't really believe it.

I also want to think that the sporadic, out of character voting of some 'red' areas for obama is people awakening from their previously comfortable slumber. In other words, smart people who are starting to use their brains.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: BigDH01

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
IMO, it's more about urban vs rural. Looking here in Iowa there are many "red" counties and some "blue" ones. The "blue" ones are urban and "red" are rural. There are many reasons for this but it's my opinion that ideals and values have a big part in that.

I don't think it's that simple this year.

Map of Iowa

It's not a very good map but shows that rural counties in the northeast north and some to the west and soutwest went Obama. I'm from the western part of the state and can tell you that some of those counties along the I-80 corridor are pretty desolate. Then you have those western counties that include Council Bluffs and Sioux City which went heavily for McCain.

Basically, in Iowa it looked to be just as much about geography as urban vs rural. The closer you get to Illinois, the more progressive the area and the closer you get to Nebraska, the more conservative the area.

Look at Adams county in southwest Iowa. It had 2194 votes and went Obama. Just slightly to the west you have suburbs of Omaha in Pottawattamie county with slightly over 42000 votes that went McCain.

Of interest is the fact that McCain won every county on Iowa's western border and Obama won every county of Iowa's eastern border. There was also an exact tie in Iowa County.

This just goes to show that trying to fit people into neat categories fails. But we'll keep trying.

In my experience, the people who believe such drivel as 'obama is muslim' are uneducated. There are exceptions which usually are educated people with other agendas saying that it's true but don't really believe it.

I also want to think that the sporadic, out of character voting of some 'red' areas for obama is people awakening from their previously comfortable slumber. In other words, smart people who are starting to use their brains.

It's interesting how people who are being squeezed economically can start to wake up to the realities. The October global economic meltdown was a huge wake up call.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: seemingly random
It turns out that urban vs rural is really educated vs uneducated.

Yep. Many of the city folk have had there common sense educated out of them. :laugh:

Yeah, it's been observed that there's nothing worse than an educated fool. Well, there's education and there's education. I kind of like this take on it, though: rural vs. urban = uneducated vs. educated = red vs. blue.

= populism vs elitism.

You can't have it both ways.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I don't know if it's where the red vs. blue really started, probably not, BUT, partisan politics took on a whole new meaning and level of hatred thanks to Newt Gingrich. HE pushed the envelope of "us vs. them" to a degree where no longer was "what's good for the country" nearly as important as "what's good fo the party."

Yes it is all Newt's fault.

Prior to that we had this beautiful system where everyone worked together in love and harmony. :roll:

 

[soulcougher73]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Muse
It seems to me that this is a relatively recent phenomenon. Back in the 60's and 70's IIRC they didn't speak in terms of red vs. blue states. I am unaware that there was nearly as much emphasis on swing states, even. In recent elections certain states are considered in the bank and the major parties don't bother spending campaign money there. How did this come to be? It seems to me that this trend is very lamentable.

What's the cause of the red vs. blue stratification of America?

welcome to politics of the last 2 decades...

Oh, I'm there/here. How did it get this way? What is causing this? What is it? Why is it that there's a big swath of red states, generally un-urbanized compared to the blue states? What is the experience, the reasoning of the inhabitants of the red states? I'm curious. Posting here is easier than buying a camper and taking a 5 year trip through America talking to people, although that would undoubtedly be very informative!

IMO, it's more about urban vs rural. Looking here in Iowa there are many "red" counties and some "blue" ones. The "blue" ones are urban and "red" are rural. There are many reasons for this but it's my opinion that ideals and values have a big part in that.

This. Here in KS its the same. Almost all red except 3 blue counties. Usually more urban/college towns. Its almost the gun toating hillbilly vs the city man it seems.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Muse
It seems to me that this is a relatively recent phenomenon. Back in the 60's and 70's IIRC they didn't speak in terms of red vs. blue states. I am unaware that there was nearly as much emphasis on swing states, even. In recent elections certain states are considered in the bank and the major parties don't bother spending campaign money there. How did this come to be? It seems to me that this trend is very lamentable.

What's the cause of the red vs. blue stratification of America?

Money & Religion

 

[ProfJohn]

I don't think I have ever seen a thread filled with more BS and false clichés.

So far we have learned that people who live in Red states are:
Rednecks, uneducated, racists (southern strategy), 'gun toating' hillbillies, don't use their brains, vote against their self interests, are "small minded dipshits', white trash, and close minded.

It is FAR more complicated than that.

The majority of red state v. blue state is cultural based. The culture of the small red states and towns is MUCH different than that of the blue states and cities. People live VERY different life styles.

People in red areas are much more individualistic and self reliant while people who live in cities are interconnected and community based. People in red areas have a more traditional set of values compared to people who live in blue areas. It is all related to what you see and hear on a daily basis.

BTW eskimo is very right (for a change ) in what he says about self segregating. There is a phenomenon in the Atlanta area where blacks are moving into the same neighborhoods as other blacks, only these neighborhoods are very upscale and filled with $400-500 houses with Benzs and BMWs in the drive way. These people can live any place and they decided to live near other people in the same economic, social and racial group.

 

[Linux23]

So far we have learned that people who live in Red states are: Rednecks, uneducated, racists (southern strategy), 'gun toating' hillbillies, don't use their brains, vote against their self interests, are "small minded dipshits', white trash, and close minded.

Yep, that about sums up the Red states.

 

[Moonbeam]

We are all the same and there is only love.

We all want dignity but we were all made to feel worthless

The result is that we are defensive

Being defensive makes us undignified and angry

That makes us attack the dignity of others

And so we have the endless wheel of karma

Too bad too because

We are all the same and there is only love.

 

[dullard]

One of the major determinations of a person's political affiliation is their parents. The parents give you your values, they generally set your level of education, they pretty much fix your income (parent's income is the strongest correlation factor when estimating a person's income). In America at least, it is rare to deviate substatially from your parent's situation, it is certainly possible, but it isn't common. The mobility idea just enforces this situation. Thus, areas that are red tend to stay red and areas that are blue tend to stay blue.

Sure there is some swapping, but that swapping isn't fast nor is it sizable. The swing states are mostly due to voter apathy/enthusiasm on one side rather than the population actually changing parties.

I grew up in a town of almost 20,000 people in rural Nebraska (one of the most consistantly red states especially when you compare voting percent of the individual states to the national percent). My home town (I no longer live there but I still live in Nebraska) was about as red as they come. My county, while not the most red county in the state, still voted 70% for McCain. Most people went regularly to church, less than half had college experience and less than 20% actually graduated from college, there was one black family that I can recall in the entire city, and the majority of people never moved more than 50 miles from home (heck several I knew never left the county in their entire lives). My question to you is this: what would cause people in this county to suddenly vote differently? They aren't exposed to new ideas or new people. They don't see the plight of the homeless or the poor. They just have nothing to switch them blue. So they stay red.

Democrats have reached out to urban people: mostly the educated, the poor, or the multicultural. None of those three groups tend reside for long in rural areas. This means that there isn't a Democrat base in the rural areas nor is there any real trust that these people even exist. What I mean is that if you never have seen a slum, why should your tax money go to people in a slum? You don't have much compassion for a problem that you haven't seen nor have you been educated about. Democrats have never reached out to the rural population. So they stay red. Republicans do reach out to the rural population. Not significantly through farm aid, but through values. People that I know buy anything you throw at them if it is (a) negative towards democrats and (b) can be linked in any way shape or form to religious or family values. It doesn't have to be true, it just has to contain (a) and (b). This is exactly what the Republicans have been preaching.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Muse
It seems to me that this is a relatively recent phenomenon. Back in the 60's and 70's IIRC they didn't speak in terms of red vs. blue states. I am unaware that there was nearly as much emphasis on swing states, even. In recent elections certain states are considered in the bank and the major parties don't bother spending campaign money there. How did this come to be? It seems to me that this trend is very lamentable.

What's the cause of the red vs. blue stratification of America?

all the networks decided in 2000 to use red for states that went republican in the presidential elections and blue for states that went democrat.


states have gotten less competitive, generally, over the course of the last couple of decades. there used to be a lot of liberal republicans and conservative democrats, but those have largely gone away.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: dullard
One of the major determinations of a person's political affiliation is their parents. The parents give you your values, they generally set your level of education, they pretty much fix your income (parent's income is the strongest correlation factor when estimating a person's income). In America at least, it is rare to deviate substatially from your parent's situation, it is certainly possible, but it isn't common. The mobility idea just enforces this situation. Thus, areas that are red tend to stay red and areas that are blue tend to stay blue.

Sure there is some swapping, but that swapping isn't fast nor is it sizable. The swing states are mostly due to voter apathy/enthusiasm on one side rather than the population actually changing parties.

I grew up in a town of almost 20,000 people in rural Nebraska (one of the most consistantly red states especially when you compare voting percent of the individual states to the national percent). My home town (I no longer live there but I still live in Nebraska) was about as red as they come. My county, while not the most red county in the state, still voted 70% for McCain. Most people went regularly to church, less than half had college experience and less than 20% actually graduated from college, there was one black family that I can recall in the entire city, and the majority of people never moved more than 50 miles from home (heck several I knew never left the county in their entire lives). My question to you is this: what would cause people in this county to suddenly vote differently? They aren't exposed to new ideas or new people. They don't see the plight of the homeless or the poor. They just have nothing to switch them blue. So they stay red.

Democrats have reached out to urban people: mostly the educated, the poor, or the multicultural. None of those three groups tend reside for long in rural areas. This means that there isn't a Democrat base in the rural areas nor is there any real trust that these people even exist. What I mean is that if you never have seen a slum, why should your tax money go to people in a slum? You don't have much compassion for a problem that you haven't seen nor have you been educated about. Democrats have never reached out to the rural population. So they stay red. Republicans do reach out to the rural population. Not significantly through farm aid, but through values. People that I know buy anything you throw at them if it is (a) negative towards democrats and (b) can be linked in any way shape or form to religious or family values. It doesn't have to be true, it just has to contain (a) and (b). This is exactly what the Republicans have been preaching.

The implications of this fine post are so profound, in my opinion, that few will take them in.