When did the country coalesce into red vs. blue states?

[Muse]

It seems to me that this is a relatively recent phenomenon. Back in the 60's and 70's IIRC they didn't speak in terms of red vs. blue states. I am unaware that there was nearly as much emphasis on swing states, even. In recent elections certain states are considered in the bank and the major parties don't bother spending campaign money there. How did this come to be? It seems to me that this trend is very lamentable.

What's the cause of the red vs. blue stratification of America?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Muse
It seems to me that this is a relatively recent phenomenon. Back in the 60's and 70's IIRC they didn't speak in terms of red vs. blue states. I am unaware that there was nearly as much emphasis on swing states, even. In recent elections certain states are considered in the bank and the major parties don't bother spending campaign money there. How did this come to be? It seems to me that this trend is very lamentable.

What's the cause of the red vs. blue stratification of America?

welcome to politics of the last 2 decades...

 

[miketheidiot]

southern strategy for the most part. Divisive politics have been the norm since the late 60's, and it really got started with white southern males switching parties after the voting rights act or whatever it was from 1964

 

[IronWing]

I blame computer graphics. It used to be hard to crank out maps, now it is easy to crank out maps, tweaking data bin boundaries to show what ever it is you want to show.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Muse
It seems to me that this is a relatively recent phenomenon. Back in the 60's and 70's IIRC they didn't speak in terms of red vs. blue states. I am unaware that there was nearly as much emphasis on swing states, even. In recent elections certain states are considered in the bank and the major parties don't bother spending campaign money there. How did this come to be? It seems to me that this trend is very lamentable.

What's the cause of the red vs. blue stratification of America?

welcome to politics of the last 2 decades...

Oh, I'm there/here. How did it get this way? What is causing this? What is it? Why is it that there's a big swath of red states, generally un-urbanized compared to the blue states? What is the experience, the reasoning of the inhabitants of the red states? I'm curious. Posting here is easier than buying a camper and taking a 5 year trip through America talking to people, although that would undoubtedly be very informative!

 

[DealMonkey]

Look at the map for a moment. The farther you get from a large body of water, the redder the voters get. Personally, I think their brains may just be drying out.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Look at the map for a moment. The farther you get from a large body of water, the redder the voters get. Personally, I think their brains may just be drying out.

Interesting observation. I remember a quote from some wise person (don't remember who) observing that people who live close to seashores tend to be more open minded than other folk. I'm glad to have always lived in such places.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Look at the map for a moment. The farther you get from a large body of water, the redder the voters get. Personally, I think their brains may just be drying out.

How do you explain the "deep" south? Most of them live near the ocean/gulf. :shocked:

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Muse
It seems to me that this is a relatively recent phenomenon. Back in the 60's and 70's IIRC they didn't speak in terms of red vs. blue states. I am unaware that there was nearly as much emphasis on swing states, even. In recent elections certain states are considered in the bank and the major parties don't bother spending campaign money there. How did this come to be? It seems to me that this trend is very lamentable.

What's the cause of the red vs. blue stratification of America?

welcome to politics of the last 2 decades...

Oh, I'm there/here. How did it get this way? What is causing this? What is it? Why is it that there's a big swath of red states, generally un-urbanized compared to the blue states? What is the experience, the reasoning of the inhabitants of the red states? I'm curious. Posting here is easier than buying a camper and taking a 5 year trip through America talking to people, although that would undoubtedly be very informative!

IMO, it's more about urban vs rural. Looking here in Iowa there are many "red" counties and some "blue" ones. The "blue" ones are urban and "red" are rural. There are many reasons for this but it's my opinion that ideals and values have a big part in that.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Muse
It seems to me that this is a relatively recent phenomenon. Back in the 60's and 70's IIRC they didn't speak in terms of red vs. blue states. I am unaware that there was nearly as much emphasis on swing states, even. In recent elections certain states are considered in the bank and the major parties don't bother spending campaign money there. How did this come to be? It seems to me that this trend is very lamentable.

What's the cause of the red vs. blue stratification of America?

welcome to politics of the last 2 decades...

Oh, I'm there/here. How did it get this way? What is causing this? What is it? Why is it that there's a big swath of red states, generally un-urbanized compared to the blue states? What is the experience, the reasoning of the inhabitants of the red states? I'm curious. Posting here is easier than buying a camper and taking a 5 year trip through America talking to people, although that would undoubtedly be very informative!

IMO, it's more about urban vs rural. Looking here in Iowa there are many "red" counties and some "blue" ones. The "blue" ones are urban and "red" are rural. There are many reasons for this but it's my opinion that ideals and values have a big part in that.

/thread

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Muse
It seems to me that this is a relatively recent phenomenon. Back in the 60's and 70's IIRC they didn't speak in terms of red vs. blue states. I am unaware that there was nearly as much emphasis on swing states, even. In recent elections certain states are considered in the bank and the major parties don't bother spending campaign money there. How did this come to be? It seems to me that this trend is very lamentable.

What's the cause of the red vs. blue stratification of America?

welcome to politics of the last 2 decades...

Oh, I'm there/here. How did it get this way? What is causing this? What is it? Why is it that there's a big swath of red states, generally un-urbanized compared to the blue states? What is the experience, the reasoning of the inhabitants of the red states? I'm curious. Posting here is easier than buying a camper and taking a 5 year trip through America talking to people, although that would undoubtedly be very informative!

IMO, it's more about urban vs rural. Looking here in Iowa there are many "red" counties and some "blue" ones. The "blue" ones are urban and "red" are rural. There are many reasons for this but it's my opinion that ideals and values have a big part in that.

OK, this has been my thinking too: urban vs. rural. But why are rural folks organized against urban folks? Are the Republicans that much more friendly to farmers? Are they pushing for farm subsidies? You say "there are many reasons for this" beyond "ideals and values." Can we discuss this? Let's get deeper.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Look at the map for a moment. The farther you get from a large body of water, the redder the voters get. Personally, I think their brains may just be drying out.

How do you explain the "deep" south? Most of them live near the ocean/gulf. :shocked:

The gulf has a higher concentration of salt, which contributes to faster drying of the brain.

 

[heyheybooboo]

All states are purple.

(Well, except for maybe Texas and South Carolina )

 

[lifeobry]

Well considering IN and VA went democratic this time I think the idea of solid red and blue has been weakened.

 

[fskimospy]

CAD is definitely correct about the urban/rural divide, but there is more to it than that.

Looking at it by state is generally not a good idea. Even reliable red and blue states in most elections only have a 10-15% difference in the vote, so it's not like very many states are truly 'red' or 'blue'.

Look at it by neighborhood and county and you'll see the real sort taking place. There's a fascinating study done by Thomas Schelling called "Models of Segregation" that deals with this phenomenon. If you take the assumption that people generally like to be around those that share their political ideology, which I think is safe, his study shows that even small preferences towards such a thing will lead to large scale sorting and segregation within a few years, assuming a mobile population. America's population has become much more mobile over the last 50 years or so, and I believe this increase in mobility is the actual cause for political segregation.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Muse
It seems to me that this is a relatively recent phenomenon. Back in the 60's and 70's IIRC they didn't speak in terms of red vs. blue states. I am unaware that there was nearly as much emphasis on swing states, even. In recent elections certain states are considered in the bank and the major parties don't bother spending campaign money there. How did this come to be? It seems to me that this trend is very lamentable.

What's the cause of the red vs. blue stratification of America?

welcome to politics of the last 2 decades...

Oh, I'm there/here. How did it get this way? What is causing this? What is it? Why is it that there's a big swath of red states, generally un-urbanized compared to the blue states? What is the experience, the reasoning of the inhabitants of the red states? I'm curious. Posting here is easier than buying a camper and taking a 5 year trip through America talking to people, although that would undoubtedly be very informative!

IMO, it's more about urban vs rural. Looking here in Iowa there are many "red" counties and some "blue" ones. The "blue" ones are urban and "red" are rural. There are many reasons for this but it's my opinion that ideals and values have a big part in that.

OK, this has been my thinking too: urban vs. rural. But why are rural folks organized against urban folks? Are the Republicans that much more friendly to farmers? Are they pushing for farm subsidies? You say "there are many reasons for this" beyond "ideals and values." Can we discuss this? Let's get deeper.

No, going deeper gets into much more than we can address with one thread.

Also, I did not suggest that rural "organized" against urban or vice-versa. I suggested they in a general sense have different ideals and values which would explain the political landscape colors.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
CAD is definitely correct about the urban/rural divide, but there is more to it than that.

Looking at it by state is generally not a good idea. Even reliable red and blue states in most elections only have a 10-15% difference in the vote, so it's not like very many states are truly 'red' or 'blue'.

Look at it by neighborhood and county and you'll see the real sort taking place. There's a fascinating study done by Thomas Schelling called "Models of Segregation" that deals with this phenomenon. If you take the assumption that people generally like to be around those that share their political ideology, which I think is safe, his study shows that even small preferences towards such a thing will lead to large scale sorting and segregation within a few years, assuming a mobile population. America's population has become much more mobile over the last 50 years or so, and I believe this increase in mobility is the actual cause for political segregation.

I can't see it like that. It isn't just mobility, it's more about certain areas having vested interests. I don't see it as values, either. I think it's got to be more based on economics. I'm thinking that some one (probably a number of people) has studied the phenomenon deeply and published about it. A scholar political scientist. Probably a walk through Barnes and Noble would lead to some interesting books dealing with the subject. There's probably stuff online too.

There's a pretty elaborate treatment at Wikipedia.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: eskimospy
CAD is definitely correct about the urban/rural divide, but there is more to it than that.

Looking at it by state is generally not a good idea. Even reliable red and blue states in most elections only have a 10-15% difference in the vote, so it's not like very many states are truly 'red' or 'blue'.

Look at it by neighborhood and county and you'll see the real sort taking place. There's a fascinating study done by Thomas Schelling called "Models of Segregation" that deals with this phenomenon. If you take the assumption that people generally like to be around those that share their political ideology, which I think is safe, his study shows that even small preferences towards such a thing will lead to large scale sorting and segregation within a few years, assuming a mobile population. America's population has become much more mobile over the last 50 years or so, and I believe this increase in mobility is the actual cause for political segregation.

I can't see it like that. It isn't just mobility, it's more about certain areas having vested interests. I don't see it as values, either. I think it's got to be more based on economics. I'm thinking that some one (probably a number of people) has studied the phenomenon deeply and published about it. A scholar political scientist. Probably a walk through Barnes and Noble would lead to some interesting books dealing with the subject. There's probably stuff online too.

Well look at it this way. Certain areas have always had vested interests, yet political segregation of communities is rapidly increasing. Why the change? The average American citizen has a vastly increased ability to move today as opposed to 50-60 years ago, which enables this sort that already had cause to happen.

Thomas Schelling is a nobel laureate who studied this model in terms of racial segregation, it can easily be applied to other kinds of segregation as well, the study I mentioned is quite famous and can probably be found online for free. I believe it is by far the most likely explanation for the sorting we see.

EDIT: Wiki gives no causal mechanism for the polarization we see. It merely mentions it exists.

 

[techs]

Hercules?



(obscure computer related reference that shows my age)

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Look at the map for a moment. The farther you get from a large body of water, the redder the voters get. Personally, I think their brains may just be drying out.

Interesting observation. I remember a quote from some wise person (don't remember who) observing that people who live close to seashores tend to be more open minded than other folk. I'm glad to have always lived in such places.

Broad generalizations to stereotype people. Yeah, you're REALLY open minded. :disgust:

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Look at the map for a moment. The farther you get from a large body of water, the redder the voters get. Personally, I think their brains may just be drying out.

Interesting observation. I remember a quote from some wise person (don't remember who) observing that people who live close to seashores tend to be more open minded than other folk. I'm glad to have always lived in such places.

Broad generalizations to stereotype people. Yeah, you're REALLY open minded. :disgust:

Gee, it wasn't my observation, I was just referring to someone else's. I was reflecting, not accusing, opining, whatever. :disgust: Hey, it's just a fact. The red states tend to be landlocked states. I believe it's also true of Germany, which one might suppose might partially account for their world-class adoption of fascism in the 1930's.

 

[BoomerD]

I don't know if it's where the red vs. blue really started, probably not, BUT, partisan politics took on a whole new meaning and level of hatred thanks to Newt Gingrich. HE pushed the envelope of "us vs. them" to a degree where no longer was "what's good for the country" nearly as important as "what's good fo the party."
NPR this morning had an interview with former Republican Congressman Mickey Edwards about the direction of conservatism. Some pretty good listening:

http://www.npr.org/templates/s...oryId=96648705&ps=cprs

yes, it's 17+ minutes long...

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
southern strategy for the most part. Divisive politics have been the norm since the late 60's, and it really got started with white southern males switching parties after the voting rights act or whatever it was from 1964

Thanks to tricky dick.

 

[GenHoth]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

http://www.npr.org/templates/s...oryId=96648705&ps=cprs

yes, it's 17+ minutes long...

Starting to listen now, lets see how it it

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Muse
It seems to me that this is a relatively recent phenomenon. Back in the 60's and 70's IIRC they didn't speak in terms of red vs. blue states. I am unaware that there was nearly as much emphasis on swing states, even. In recent elections certain states are considered in the bank and the major parties don't bother spending campaign money there. How did this come to be? It seems to me that this trend is very lamentable.

What's the cause of the red vs. blue stratification of America?

welcome to politics of the last 2 decades...

Oh, I'm there/here. How did it get this way? What is causing this? What is it? Why is it that there's a big swath of red states, generally un-urbanized compared to the blue states? What is the experience, the reasoning of the inhabitants of the red states? I'm curious. Posting here is easier than buying a camper and taking a 5 year trip through America talking to people, although that would undoubtedly be very informative!

IMO, it's more about urban vs rural. Looking here in Iowa there are many "red" counties and some "blue" ones. The "blue" ones are urban and "red" are rural. There are many reasons for this but it's my opinion that ideals and values have a big part in that.

/thread

It turns out that urban vs rural is really educated vs uneducated.