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When did religion start losing its usefulness?

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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I don't know why you rip Dari here for trolling. There is another thread here, religion vs reason, that deals with basically the same point. I think it is a very valid question and one I ask myself all the time. You also, I think, do not address the 'sheep' mindset that religion is wont to create, one that slops over as a need and reliance on authority in every field, politics included. If something has been screwed up for 1700 years isn't it about time to give it some attention? The question, as I see it, is whether religion hasn't become a cancer. Certainly, what real meaning it has is almost completely buried, it seems to me, in the animosity and hate the secular minds feel toward it. The abuse of religion in the world has made it contemptible. Do we need to dump the bathwater, and if so how do we save the baby?
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Dari has a history of trolling in the past.

I find it odd that the influence of excessive democracy so often tends to drive people to such an arrogant desire for tyranny. Who are we that we should discuss dumping other people's bathwater and endangering their babies? Would we have they discussing dumping ours? As far as I'm concerned, there's your cancer right there.
 
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I don't know why you rip Dari here for trolling. There is another thread here, religion vs reason, that deals with basically the same point. I think it is a very valid question and one I ask myself all the time. You also, I think, do not address the 'sheep' mindset that religion is wont to create, one that slops over as a need and reliance on authority in every field, politics included. If something has been screwed up for 1700 years isn't it about time to give it some attention? The question, as I see it, is whether religion hasn't become a cancer. Certainly, what real meaning it has is almost completely buried, it seems to me, in the animosity and hate the secular minds feel toward it. The abuse of religion in the world has made it contemptible. Do we need to dump the bathwater, and if so how do we save the baby?
Click to expand...
Dari has a history of trolling in the past.

I find it odd that the influence of excessive democracy so often tends to drive people to such an arrogant desire for tyranny. Who are we that we should discuss dumping other people's bathwater and endangering their babies? Would we have they discussing dumping ours? As far as I'm concerned, there's your cancer right there.
Click to expand...

I read your words but I do not comprehend them. There is a question out there as to whether religion is losing it's usefulness. This is an interesting question. Seems there might be some real answer to it although I don't know what it is. Say the answer is no. Then we don't need to throw out the bathwater. But if the answer is yes then perhaps we do. It is not really a matter of arrogant desire for tyranny so much as how to respond in the face of true data. It is like deciding if a patient has a disease and if so treating it. I don't say to a doctor, how dare you diagnose me and we don't normally let our kids avoid their shots. Medical science is also always working to improve medicine.
 
Hmmmm.... My God is God and I've no religion... only God! Well only Jesus who is God but still no religion... I wonder what that makes of my vision of the question propounded?

I'd say ... depends! It depends on what one and each one is different uses it for and when it has started losing usefulness depends on that. So for every being alive a different answer ought to occur even from the atheist who might say it never did have any... to him.. but to the fellow atheist running for Congress I'd think when he retires from Congress, perhaps a bit after that..
 
Originally posted by: Dari
When did religion start losing its usefulness?
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When it forgot to mention the existance of dinosaurs...

?And lo Jesus and the disciples walked to Nazareth. But the trail was blocked by a giant brontosaurus...with a splinter in his paw. And O the disciples did run a shriekin': ?What a big lizard, Lord!? But Jesus was unafraid and he took the splinter from the brontosaurus' paw and the big lizard became his friend.??

 
Originally posted by: Kalmah
Originally posted by: Dari
When did religion start losing its usefulness?
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When it forgot to mention the existance of dinosaurs...

?And lo Jesus and the disciples walked to Nazareth. But the trail was blocked by a giant brontosaurus...with a splinter in his paw. And O the disciples did run a shriekin': ?What a big lizard, Lord!? But Jesus was unafraid and he took the splinter from the brontosaurus' paw and the big lizard became his friend.??
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:laugh:

that was a tear jerker :thumbsup:
 
It's always interesting reading a discussion of religion where many of the discussers have very little knowledge of religions and a predetermined and unchangable position of disgust towards it.

My opinion to the topic question is that religion has been loosing its usefulness as individuals become more self-sufficient. It's a gut feeling that I certainly don't have the knowledge to try and explain.
 
Religion has always been pointless and always will be pointless....It is man's attempt to understand God...

The true meaning of Christianity is a personal relationship with God through his only son Jesus Christ of the Bible....and thats it..its a relationship...not a religion

Agree or Disagree, it doesn't matter....those are the true definitions regardless of what diety or religion you believe in....
 
Originally posted by: Vic
When did Dari come back to troll again? Learn to drive with 2 hands yet?

Traditional religion was philosophy and psychology before the advent of modern science. 99.9% of it is in code and was never intended to be taken literally, but to act as guide. In this sense, religion have never lost its usefulness (quite the opposite, it has not even been tapped) because science cannot and will not ever answer all questions, nor ever help individuals find true inner peace and enlightenment, which is the true purpose of religion (the kingdom of heaven is not a place but a state of mind).
For the past 1700 years, religion has been abused for political purposes. Political leaders have forced the people to accept and conform to a certain literal view of religion that is greatly skewed from the original teachings. This projection of ideology is actually politics, but politics doesn't actually need traditional religion in order to enforce its ideologies upon others. In this way, there is almost no difference between the Catholic, the communist, and the fascist. They'll all save our souls no matter what we have to say about it.
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I still drive with one hand on the steering wheel. The other hand does other things. But let's get to the point of this thread. Religion is still philosophy. It is a system of philosophical beliefs with myths added to give substence. The myths are allegorical tales of the true meaning...philosophy. To see why the myths is important is to just take a class in philosophy...not many people can comprehend what's going on, let alone prove its theories.
My point here is that these systems of beliefs become the basis for laws and morality...creating the genesis of civilization. Different civilizations may have similar beliefs. But it is those that are extremely similar that have the most problem co-existing...hence destroying what they've built. Whether similar or completely different, the fact is differences are exaggerated and become the focus of arguments, rather than celebrating the similarities. In the end, the systems of beliefs fight for supremecy, destroying each other in the process.
So religion may be important on an singular level, but when its expanded to become civilizations there are tensions. The peace that these beliefs espouse bring about death and destruction instead. Anyone that can rise above petty fights can't help but become cynical at the whole thing. So, as the question asks, when did religion start losing its usefulness? That doesn't mean that spiritual beliefs is useless, but organized religion is self-defeating in its philosophical destination when confronted with other organized religions. How can an organized religion be peaceful but not accommodating, thereby destroying everything it has built in its selfish pursuit of absolutism?

 
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: Vic
When did Dari come back to troll again? Learn to drive with 2 hands yet?

Traditional religion was philosophy and psychology before the advent of modern science. 99.9% of it is in code and was never intended to be taken literally, but to act as guide. In this sense, religion have never lost its usefulness (quite the opposite, it has not even been tapped) because science cannot and will not ever answer all questions, nor ever help individuals find true inner peace and enlightenment, which is the true purpose of religion (the kingdom of heaven is not a place but a state of mind).
For the past 1700 years, religion has been abused for political purposes. Political leaders have forced the people to accept and conform to a certain literal view of religion that is greatly skewed from the original teachings. This projection of ideology is actually politics, but politics doesn't actually need traditional religion in order to enforce its ideologies upon others. In this way, there is almost no difference between the Catholic, the communist, and the fascist. They'll all save our souls no matter what we have to say about it.
Click to expand...

I still drive with one hand on the steering wheel. The other hand does other things. But let's get to the point of this thread. Religion is still philosophy. It is a system of philosophical beliefs with myths added to give substence. The myths are allegorical tales of the true meaning...philosophy. To see why the myths is important is to just take a class in philosophy...not many people can comprehend what's going on, let alone prove its theories.
My point here is that these systems of beliefs become the basis for laws and morality...creating the genesis of civilization. Different civilizations may have similar beliefs. But it is those that are extremely similar that have the most problem co-existing...hence destroying what they've built. Whether similar or completely different, the fact is differences are exaggerated and become the focus of arguments, rather than celebrating the similarities. In the end, the systems of beliefs fight for supremecy, destroying each other in the process.
So religion may be important on an singular level, but when its expanded to become civilizations there are tensions. The peace that these beliefs espouse bring about death and destruction instead. Anyone that can rise above petty fights can't help but become cynical at the whole thing. So, as the question asks, when did religion start losing its usefulness? That doesn't mean that spiritual beliefs is useless, but organized religion is self-defeating in its philosophical destination when confronted with other organized religions. How can an organized religion be peaceful but not accommodating, thereby destroying everything it has built in its selfish pursuit of absolutism?
Click to expand...

I believe the answer is rather simple. Religion is a bridge to a hidden reality, a higher state of being in which all opposites are resolved. The problem for man is that he attached himself to the bridge. But this attachment is not the fault of religion. Man attaches himself to anything and everything that involves his ego. He does this with tribe, with nation, political party, race, anything which he used as a substitute for value where the various external values substitute for self worth which was destroyed in childhood. Man hates himself. He does not know it and does not want to know it. Get rid of religion and a new form of it will appear. You are looking at symptoms, not fundamental causes.
 
Originally posted by: freakflag
As long as people need solice from the fact that we are all in essence talking monkeys, religion will never outlive it's usefulness. There are certain types of people who need comfort from the safety net it provides as much as they need air and water, and, that's not a bad thing. It's when it's used for the consolidation of power and the projection of ideology that it becomes twisted and dangerous. That kind of religion we can live without.
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Talking monkeys? You have proof of that? This I would like to see and I don't mean the drawing done by darwiniacs
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: Vic
When did Dari come back to troll again? Learn to drive with 2 hands yet?

Traditional religion was philosophy and psychology before the advent of modern science. 99.9% of it is in code and was never intended to be taken literally, but to act as guide. In this sense, religion have never lost its usefulness (quite the opposite, it has not even been tapped) because science cannot and will not ever answer all questions, nor ever help individuals find true inner peace and enlightenment, which is the true purpose of religion (the kingdom of heaven is not a place but a state of mind).
For the past 1700 years, religion has been abused for political purposes. Political leaders have forced the people to accept and conform to a certain literal view of religion that is greatly skewed from the original teachings. This projection of ideology is actually politics, but politics doesn't actually need traditional religion in order to enforce its ideologies upon others. In this way, there is almost no difference between the Catholic, the communist, and the fascist. They'll all save our souls no matter what we have to say about it.
Click to expand...

I still drive with one hand on the steering wheel. The other hand does other things. But let's get to the point of this thread. Religion is still philosophy. It is a system of philosophical beliefs with myths added to give substence. The myths are allegorical tales of the true meaning...philosophy. To see why the myths is important is to just take a class in philosophy...not many people can comprehend what's going on, let alone prove its theories.
My point here is that these systems of beliefs become the basis for laws and morality...creating the genesis of civilization. Different civilizations may have similar beliefs. But it is those that are extremely similar that have the most problem co-existing...hence destroying what they've built. Whether similar or completely different, the fact is differences are exaggerated and become the focus of arguments, rather than celebrating the similarities. In the end, the systems of beliefs fight for supremecy, destroying each other in the process.
So religion may be important on an singular level, but when its expanded to become civilizations there are tensions. The peace that these beliefs espouse bring about death and destruction instead. Anyone that can rise above petty fights can't help but become cynical at the whole thing. So, as the question asks, when did religion start losing its usefulness? That doesn't mean that spiritual beliefs is useless, but organized religion is self-defeating in its philosophical destination when confronted with other organized religions. How can an organized religion be peaceful but not accommodating, thereby destroying everything it has built in its selfish pursuit of absolutism?
Click to expand...

I believe the answer is rather simple. Religion is a bridge to a hidden reality, a higher state of being in which all opposites are resolved. The problem for man is that he attached himself to the bridge. But this attachment is not the fault of religion. Man attaches himself to anything and everything that involves his ego. He does this with tribe, with nation, political party, race, anything which he used as a substitute for value where the various external values substitute for self worth which was destroyed in childhood. Man hates himself. He does not know it and does not want to know it. Get rid of religion and a new form of it will appear. You are looking at symptoms, not fundamental causes.
Click to expand...

You're absolutely correct. In fact I wrote a paper a couple of years ago on how man has no natural enemy, therefore, he is his own natural enemy. In fact, here is the opening paragraph to my essay:

Man is a unique creature in nature. We have differentiated ourselves from the other animals by utilizing our advanced intellect to create tools and artificial environment as either replacements or complements to what is naturally available. Sitting atop the food chain, we have become ?master? of our own domain, lording over the other beasts of the earth and polluting it disproportionately. However, try as hard as we?d like, we are still a part of the natural world and we have a tendency of obeying its laws even if we try to move in the other direction. One such law is the check and balance so inherent in nature. I will attempt to prove that, having no natural rival, man has become his own rival through his actions, keeping his population in check over the long run.
 
Originally posted by: magomago
Originally posted by: RichardE
On a side note, does anyone have statistics that show how religious people are in regards to the amount of education they have?
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I know what you are hinting at but I don't see that being true at all.
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Unfortunately I see this too in my [baptist] hometown church. For some reason a lot of those people don't understand the importance of education. I say I'm going to GT they say "why not Western Kentucky University?" LOL morons. Irritates the crap out of me.

But presbyterian churches seem to consist more of a white-colar crowd. My new church now is much more concerned with the quality of the music played (that Contemporary Christian so-called "music" is crap), and understands that making yourself as smart as possible is only a good thing. None of this rediculous unfounded "focusing on the world too much" crap some of my baptist friends give me. Its much nicer being with smart people.
So point being, I'm evidence of a religious person closer to the end of the scale affiliated with knowledge than with stupidity.
 
i would argue there are brilliant men and women of faith, today and over the centuries. However, I would also argue that the smarter someone thinks they are, the more arrogant they become, and the less they tend to dwell on issues of faith. So the smartest guys in the room tend to belittle the humble people of faith...

Paul sums it up pretty well: 1 Cor. 1:21: "The message of the cross is foolishness (Greek word moria, where we get the word "moronic") to those who are perishing, but to those who are being saved it is the power of God."

Coming to faith in Christ is not something man can work towards, he can't reason and rationalize his way to God. We are saved by grace through faith, not works, lest any of us should have anything to boast about.

 
now that some faiths believe the end of the world is coming, Armageddon is approaching, does that mean they will start giving away their millions? afterall, a church won't need it if the end is near, right?
 
Lol when that book "89 reasons why the world will end in 1989" came out, tons of Christians went way into debt, buying big screen TVs, maxing out credit cards, etc, because they believed the hype. Then the world didn't end and they were screwed. Noobs.

Presbyterians believe that most of the apocalyptic stuff we see in the bible was referring to the destruction of jerusalem in AD70; the end of the old kingdom and the beginning of the new (God's word going out to all nations and not just being for the Jews). That would mean we're in the new kingdom now and the bible will penetrate the world and it will just get better. The people who say the world is coming to an end I say are wrong. America may be coming to an end, but the world certainly isn't. Christianity is exploding in China as it is dying here. I expect God will bless China after he is finished with us.
 
Originally posted by: johnnobts
i would argue there are brilliant men and women of faith, today and over the centuries. However, I would also argue that the smarter someone thinks they are, the more arrogant they become, and the less they tend to dwell on issues of faith. So the smartest guys in the room tend to belittle the humble people of faith...

Paul sums it up pretty well: 1 Cor. 1:21: "The message of the cross is foolishness (Greek word moria, where we get the word "moronic") to those who are perishing, but to those who are being saved it is the power of God."

Coming to faith in Christ is not something man can work towards, he can't reason and rationalize his way to God. We are saved by grace through faith, not works, lest any of us should have anything to boast about.
Click to expand...

Personally I don't understand grace through faith. If you have faith what more could you ask for? Faith and grace seem to me to be completely different things. I think of faith as believing you are saved and grace as that event when you and God become One. The Pope has faith but Jesus was Grace itself.
 
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