When are AMD cpus going to show up in phones?

[lagokc]

With Temash, AMD appears to already have a chip with the CPU power of Intel's Bay Trail combined with the same generation of GPU performance that is expected in the Tegra 5. Another die shrink and they should be able to get the power requirements low enough for phone use.

In 2014 will AMD be in a good position to take a huge chunk of the phone market or will it take them too long to figure out how to integrate the modems they'd need to be competitive?

 

[Roland00Address]

When AMD can get the magic intel foundries that are much more efficient than even the best other foundries such as TSMC.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Another die shrink and they should be able to get the power requirements low enough for phone use.

Maybe the biggest "easier said than done" of all time.

AMD needs to get sleeping power usage WAY down before its useful for mobile devices.

 

[lagokc]

Ah good point, I was hoping the rest of the industry would finally catch up to 22nm by 2014. Looks like even Tegra 5 will still be on 28nm. By the time AMD gets its act together in manufacturing tech Intel may actually have a competitive graphics component. Poor AMD.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

At this point I am wondering when they will be showing up in tablets. The Hondo powered Vizio tablet is going to be available after the next generation of soc's were supposed to be shipping in products.

 

[s44]

Never. Tablets... they've screwed up by not being there already.

Of course, AMD totally screwed the pooch in '09 by selling what's now the Adreno mobile GPU designs/division to Qualcomm.

 

[masteryoda34]

When AMD can get the magic intel foundries that are much more efficient than even the best other foundries such as TSMC.

Having the best factory isn't all that matters. Otherwise Intel would be dominating the mobile space right now. But they can hardly compete with Qualcomm and Samsung today, even with their technology advantage.

 

[dagamer34]

AMD will show up in phones when Intel does (and no, the Lava XOLO 900, Intel San Diego, and Motorola RAZRi really don't count).

They need to be competitive in tablets first before they go after the phone market.

 

[Roland00Address]

Having the best factory isn't all that matters. Otherwise Intel would be dominating the mobile space right now. But they can hardly compete with Qualcomm and Samsung today, even with their technology advantage.

That is kinda my point, AMD chips aren't more efficient than their ARM brethen thus with a level playing field with the same process technology (which is the current reality since everyone competes for 28nm TMSC) no one would take the AMD chips for they would get horrible battery life due to crappy idle power draw.

Even with Intel having the best process technology (which intel has barely used for cellphones/tablets until recently for they been focusing on high power process tech) intel hasn't been competing with ARM, and intel has 10 times the research and a more efficient lower power cpu with clovertrail atom vs honda.

 

[lothar]

Having the best factory isn't all that matters. Otherwise Intel would be dominating the mobile space right now. But they can hardly compete with Qualcomm and Samsung today, even with their technology advantage.

If Intel can't compete with Qualcomm and Samsung in the mobile space today like you claim, what makes anyone think AMD will be able to?

 

[ilkhan]

AMD will get their CPUs in phones when they can afford to do more than develop second place CPUs.

 

[Dari]

If Intel can't compete with Qualcomm and Samsung in the mobile space today like you claim, what makes anyone think AMD will be able to?

Intel can but they're conflicted. On the one hand they have the IP, tech, and foundries to mop the floor with any other SoC producers. On the other hand they are married to x86 and are trying to stuff it into places it doesn't belong. Their first reference phones did a lot well and failed in other places but it only sold in like India and Motorola, I believe. They need to either be pragmatic or step up and shift the engineering effort to SoCs instead of computers.

 

[lagokc]

Intel can but they're conflicted. On the one hand they have the IP, tech, and foundries to mop the floor with any other SoC producers. On the other hand they are married to x86 and are trying to stuff it into places it doesn't belong. Their first reference phones did a lot well and failed in other places but it only sold in like India and Motorola, I believe. They need to either be pragmatic or step up and shift the engineering effort to SoCs instead of computers.

You have to keep in mind, the Atoms they've been sticking into phones are based on ancient tech. The jump from the current Intel phone Atoms to next years will be like the jump from A9 to A15 plus a die shrink.

Also supposedly AMD A4-1200s are going to start showing up in tablets any day now.

 

[BrightCandle]

Not before they go out of business I suspect. Which is unfortunate but it does appear that they are being out engineered by everyone they are competing with in every market they are in.

 

[MrX8503]

Mobile is extremely competitive, I don't see AMD having enough steam left over to enter that market. If anything, they'll have something after Intel has penetrated the market.

 

[GTaudiophile]

With the desktop dying, so will CPU/GPU sales. This will only hurt AMD's R&D capability. Compound that they sold off very good mobile GPU tech a few years ago, their shortsightedness means another nail in the coffin. I am afraid they're gone. Really sad for them and the ATI folks.

 

[poofyhairguy]

AMD's advantage over ARM makers is x86 compatibility. With mobile devices that is a liability - look at the foundry magic Intel has to perform to make x86 competitive in power usage to 2011 ARM chips at twice the die size.

Intel won't have a true ARM competitor until 2015 and 14nm. AMD will never get there.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

AMD's advantage over ARM makers is x86 compatibility. With mobile devices that is a liability - look at the foundry magic Intel has to perform to make x86 competitive in power usage to 2011 ARM chips at twice the die size.

Intel won't have a true ARM competitor until 2015 and 14nm. AMD will never get there.

I think that is overly pessimistic, if Haswell is as good as it looks it has the potential to be the chip that makes ARM completely pointless in the tablet market. A15 can't deliver anything close to Core iX performance and doesn't offer significant power savings (see Exynos 5250) and Swift and Krait may be lower power but they can't compete with a ~5 year old Atom architecture without having a significant advantage in core count.

Everyone is going to have a hard time selling slow, crippled, ARM tablets with mobile operating systems against full Windows 8 Haswell systems that are faster, have more and better apps, and can be dropped into a thunderbolt dock and function as a full desktop pc.

 

[Bateluer]

AMD will get their CPUs in phones when they can afford to do more than develop second place CPUs.

This. AMD is practically limping along on life support now. The only thing keeping their nostrils above the water line are their video cards. Nvidia's nearly as strong a competitor as Intel.

Everyone is going to have a hard time selling slow, crippled, ARM tablets with mobile operating systems against full Windows 8 Haswell systems that are faster, have more and better apps, and can be dropped into a thunderbolt dock and function as a full desktop pc.

And they'll cost 800 dollars, plus another 2-300 for the dock. The ARM tablets start at 200 dollars, and have a massive library of software, the Google Play Store and Apple AppStore are not tiny. And for what the average person does, they don't need that 800 dollar Haswell powered Ultrabook hybrid.

 

[Roland00Address]

I think that is overly pessimistic, if Haswell is as good as it looks it has the potential to be the chip that makes ARM completely pointless in the tablet market. A15 can't deliver anything close to Core iX performance and doesn't offer significant power savings (see Exynos 5250) and Swift and Krait may be lower power but they can't compete with a ~5 year old Atom architecture without having a significant advantage in core count.

Everyone is going to have a hard time selling slow, crippled, ARM tablets with mobile operating systems against full Windows 8 Haswell systems that are faster, have more and better apps, and can be dropped into a thunderbolt dock and function as a full desktop pc.

I agree with everything you said here but I want to put one "catch"
Intel with their quad core silvermont atom is going for the $400+ price point
Haswell will be going for the $600+ price point
Nexus 7 successor is rumor to be Quad Core Qualcomm (probably S600) for $200
There will be similar tablets to the Nexus 7 but 10 inch in the $300 to $400 price points.
ARM will still be a big seller due to the price point they are happy to compete in. They will be the limited android tablets and not windows, but some people just don't care.

 

[StrangerGuy]

Having the best factory isn't all that matters. Otherwise Intel would be dominating the mobile space right now. But they can hardly compete with Qualcomm and Samsung today, even with their technology advantage.

Having a fab advantage ain't worth shit if nobody wants to buy your chips, and it in fact becomes a huge disadvantage then when fabs have enormous fixed and sunk costs.

With next-gen fabs getting exponentially more expensive to build and PC shipments dropping (for another disastrous -7.7% in 2013 Q1) even Intel will be struggling to maintain their lead. The market now just simply doesn't reward bleeding edge fabrication now.

 

[lagokc]

Having a fab advantage ain't worth shit if nobody wants to buy your chips, and it in fact becomes a huge disadvantage then when fabs have enormous fixed and sunk costs.

With next-gen fabs getting exponentially more expensive to build and PC shipments dropping (for another disastrous -7.7% in 2013 Q1) even Intel will be struggling to maintain their lead. The market now just simply doesn't reward bleeding edge fabrication now.

It's not as though Intel's current phone Atoms are using a fab advantage, in fact Intel is behind. Clover Trail+ is still on a 32nm process while new ARM cores are using 28nm. In Q4 when Intel both replaces the ancient in-order Atom core with a modern out of order one AND shrinks to 22nm their chips suddenly get a lot more competitive.

In the phone space where performance per watt is the most important factor, having a fabrication advantage is more important than ever.

 

[dagamer34]

I think that is overly pessimistic, if Haswell is as good as it looks it has the potential to be the chip that makes ARM completely pointless in the tablet market. A15 can't deliver anything close to Core iX performance and doesn't offer significant power savings (see Exynos 5250) and Swift and Krait may be lower power but they can't compete with a ~5 year old Atom architecture without having a significant advantage in core count.

Everyone is going to have a hard time selling slow, crippled, ARM tablets with mobile operating systems against full Windows 8 Haswell systems that are faster, have more and better apps, and can be dropped into a thunderbolt dock and function as a full desktop pc.

Latest ARM chip: $20.
Haswell chip: $225 (pricing never changes).

So yeah.... :whiste:

 

[Puddle Jumper]

And they'll cost 800 dollars, plus another 2-300 for the dock. The ARM tablets start at 200 dollars, and have a massive library of software, the Google Play Store and Apple AppStore are not tiny. And for what the average person does, they don't need that 800 dollar Haswell powered Ultrabook hybrid.

The most basic ARM tablets cost $200 sure but if you are looking for anything more than that it's $400 minimum (Nexus 10). The difference is I'd be fine with paying $800 for a Core i3 haswell tablet.

You don't think x86 Windows has a massive library of software? Even when it comes to touch enabled software the Windows store has matured very well.

Latest ARM chip: $20.
Haswell chip: $225 (pricing never changes).

So yeah.... :whiste:

Considering how slow even the fastest ARM SoC is Haswell could very well offer better price/performance.

For me the simple thing is I have tried Android and iOS tablets and while Android is at least more than an app viewer it still can't be a 100% laptop replacement even now and being a pc replacement is exactly what I expect from a tablet. I'm not saying I will get rid of my gaming pc for a tablet since such a small device will always have compromises but if I am laying on the couch using my tablet I should never need to go get a laptop to do something under any circumstance.

 

[Daniel Jones]

It seem to be a pretty hot conversation.
I own an AMD A8 quadcore processor powered laptop and what I feel is that my this laptop heats more (sink and fan is working fine) than the one powered by intel (older one).

Form this observation I will guess that they might not launch smartphones powered with AMD processors.