What's your opinion of taxation in general?

[Jaskalas]

Oh, and you have a point with it not being socialism. It was Karl Marx?s communist manifesto that outlined and popularized wealth redistribution. Socialist is merely the politically correct term to use after Stalin, Mao, and Castro proved how disastrous it turns out.

Put a happy face on it, and it'll turn out alright this time around.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: ironwing
No he won't. Bush and the Republicans have already spent any money Obama could possibly dream of spending. Obama will be mopping up after the Republican fiscal disaster and that will likely consume his entire time in office.

You have clearly ignored everything Obama has promised the masses in order to get elected. Check out his to-do list of programs sometime.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Extremist statements seem like they should be backed up by some kind of argument, as that statement makes absolutely no fucking sense to me.

Taxation doesn't make sense to me. Maybe you can explain it.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Dissipate
All taxation is extortion. Everyone in the tax collection agencies should be in prison.

TANSTAAFL

Sorry, meant in a prison, funded voluntarily of course. I'd donate a few thousand bucks a year to run that prison myself.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Oh, and you have a point with it not being socialism. It was Karl Marx?s communist manifesto that outlined and popularized wealth redistribution. Socialist is merely the politically correct term to use after Stalin, Mao, and Castro proved how disastrous it turns out.

Put a happy face on it, and it'll turn out alright this time around.

:roll:

The concept of wealth redistribution predates Marx by several millennia, smart guy. It's in the Bible several times over FFS. And even socialism predates Marx by at least 100 years.

I bet you can't even tell us any of the fundamental differences between communism and socialism.

 

[TheBDB]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Drakkon
Taxes make sense for funding an army, police and other emergency services, roads/infrastructure, and utilities. Beyond those its tough to see why money has to go to programs that don't fall under those umbrellas and the market couldn't handle them.

Well that's the big question, just what can "the market" handle. It's not a magical unicorn, there are a lot of things I'm not sure we're better off leaving to the invisible hand to keep running smoothly.

That is my thinking exactly. I pay the government taxes and in exchange I get services such as police, roads, etc. It is a constant balancing act between how much you pay and what you get in return. That is why I hate it when people say the idea of cutting taxes is always a good principle. As a made up example, what if we could pay 5% more in taxes and have free college education, free healthcare, free power, etc. Is there anything wrong with considering it? Not that I trust the government to be efficient or follow through on promises, I am just saying look at different options.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Dissipate
All taxation is extortion. Everyone in the tax collection agencies should be in prison.

TANSTAAFL

Sorry, meant in a prison, funded voluntarily of course. I'd donate a few thousand bucks a year to run that prison myself.

Glad to hear, because your earlier comment was a wee bit contradictory.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: ironwing
The heavy lifting on containing spending was done by the Democrats before the Reps took over the Congress. After Newt took over, we had stalemate and stupidity. It takes a fool to think Clinton was a socialist.

Totally false.

Clinton had no plans to balance the budget prior to the Republican take over of congress.
Look at his first two budgets. Both contained $200 billion deficits for eternity.

It was not until the Republican take over in 95 that Clinton and congress made the deal that balanced the budget.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: ironwing
No he won't. Bush and the Republicans have already spent any money Obama could possibly dream of spending. Obama will be mopping up after the Republican fiscal disaster and that will likely consume his entire time in office.

You have clearly ignored everything Obama has promised the masses in order to get elected. Check out his to-do list of programs sometime.

Yes I have ignored it. I pretty much ignore all the fiscal promises made by presidential candidates and focus on the policy proposals they would have much control over once elected. Neither Obama nor McCain will get to do much in the way of new programs. Bush has taken that possibility off the table by trashing/looting the treasury. A President McCain, I think, in attempt to salvage his party's reputation, will live in denial about this reality, further delaying a fix. Obama, on the other hand, isn't even beholden to his own party. He built his own fund raising machine and his own support base, running against the party ordained candidate. He is free to propose policies to start repairing the systemic fiscal fuckups produced by Republican rule.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: ironwing
The heavy lifting on containing spending was done by the Democrats before the Reps took over the Congress. After Newt took over, we had stalemate and stupidity. It takes a fool to think Clinton was a socialist.

Totally false.

Clinton had no plans to balance the budget prior to the Republican take over of congress.
Look at his first two budgets. Both contained $200 billion deficits for eternity.

It was not until the Republican take over in 95 that Clinton and congress made the deal that balanced the budget.

Liar.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: ironwing
The heavy lifting on containing spending was done by the Democrats before the Reps took over the Congress. After Newt took over, we had stalemate and stupidity. It takes a fool to think Clinton was a socialist.

Totally false.

Clinton had no plans to balance the budget prior to the Republican take over of congress.
Look at his first two budgets. Both contained $200 billion deficits for eternity.

It was not until the Republican take over in 95 that Clinton and congress made the deal that balanced the budget.

Both those budgets had lower deficits than ANY in GHW Bush's term and were the lowest in % increases in the overall debt since Carter.

:roll:

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I love taxes. I think of them as charity and my heart fills with joy.

If taxes were charity, you'd have the choice of not paying them.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: ironwing
The heavy lifting on containing spending was done by the Democrats before the Reps took over the Congress. After Newt took over, we had stalemate and stupidity. It takes a fool to think Clinton was a socialist.

Totally false.

Clinton had no plans to balance the budget prior to the Republican take over of congress.
Look at his first two budgets. Both contained $200 billion deficits for eternity.

It was not until the Republican take over in 95 that Clinton and congress made the deal that balanced the budget.

Liar.

Eat those words.
Clinton's 1996 budget
Introduced in Feb of 1995 right after the Republicans took over, but before they were active in the process.

Go to page 14 of the document and look at Clinton's projected deficits for years 1995 to 2000.
$192, $196, $213, $196, $197 and $194 billion.

No plan at all to balance the budget. Clinton was perfectly content with near $200 billion deficits for his entire term.

BTW dig up his 1995 budget and see the same thing. But if you dig up his 1997 budget you see them project a balanced budget. The only thing that changed between 95, 96 and 97 was control of congress.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I love taxes. I think of them as charity and my heart fills with joy.

If taxes were charity, you'd have the choice of not paying them.

Choice my ass. I'm giving up joy like I'm giving up breathing.

 

[SleepWalkerX]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Dissipate
All taxation is extortion. Everyone in the tax collection agencies should be in prison.

Extremist statements seem like they should be backed up by some kind of argument, as that statement makes absolutely no fucking sense to me.

Think about a mafia running a city. The mafia will extort the business owners claiming they're going to provide them with "protection". However, if the business owner refuses then the mafia will send its goons to wreck havoc on their store and maybe assault the business owner.

The state is no different. Well except they throw you in jail rather than beat you on the spot.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I love taxes. I think of them as charity and my heart fills with joy.

only in the mind of a leftist are taxes - "charity".

Wrong, when you consider that the people choose to tax themselves, by who they elect.

We as a society want to cure cancer? We can tax and pay for the research.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Dissipate
All taxation is extortion. Everyone in the tax collection agencies should be in prison.

Peope who say that are nuttier than the flat earth and moon landing was faked groups.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: ironwing
The heavy lifting on containing spending was done by the Democrats before the Reps took over the Congress. After Newt took over, we had stalemate and stupidity. It takes a fool to think Clinton was a socialist.

Totally false.

Clinton had no plans to balance the budget prior to the Republican take over of congress.
Look at his first two budgets. Both contained $200 billion deficits for eternity.

It was not until the Republican take over in 95 that Clinton and congress made the deal that balanced the budget.

I'm really getting disgusted with PJ repeating the same lies. He's used this one countless times, and been corrected countless times, and posts as if he has not seen the info.

In fact, I'm so disgusted with him I'm not going to bother repeating the same info, I'm going to move him to the 'not worth explaining it to AGAIN' group on this topic.

There have been a number of threads lately where he posts something, gets corrected, and he does not respond. It's just tiresome.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I love taxes. I think of them as charity and my heart fills with joy.

If taxes were charity, you'd have the choice of not paying them.

Choice my ass. I'm giving up joy like I'm giving up breathing.

And I assume those are charity bombs blowing up Iraqi homes? $700 billion charity donation to Wall Street, and $1 billion in charity to Georgia?

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I love taxes. I think of them as charity and my heart fills with joy.

only in the mind of a leftist are taxes - "charity".

Wrong, when you consider that the people choose to tax themselves, by who they elect.

:laugh:

Then why the need for the IRS to come get you when you don't send them money?

Seems like Obama is doing ok by giving 95% of America a tax break.

That SOB is taking away my right to be charitable! :|

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I love taxes. I think of them as charity and my heart fills with joy.

only in the mind of a leftist are taxes - "charity".

Wrong, when you consider that the people choose to tax themselves, by who they elect.

:laugh:

Then why the need for the IRS to come get you when you don't send them money?

Seems like Obama is doing ok by giving 95% of America a tax break.

That SOB is taking away my right to be charitable! :|

Since when do you pay taxes?

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Since when do you pay taxes?

Ever since I heard you retired and needed some SS and Medicaid.

So, I guess, about 34 years ago.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I love taxes. I think of them as charity and my heart fills with joy.

only in the mind of a leftist are taxes - "charity".

Wrong, when you consider that the people choose to tax themselves, by who they elect.

:laugh:

Then why the need for the IRS to come get you when you don't send them money?

Because when a majority passes a tax, everyone has to pay it (to the extent they owe taxes). If a majority wants to cure cancer but some don't they still have to pay for it.

That's democracy; without it, there's no need for laws and taxes at all, just anarchy, where the guy who wants your car doesn't have to follow the law saying he can't take it.

Seems like Obama is doing ok by giving 95% of America a tax break.

That SOB is taking away my right to be charitable! :|

If you think he's taxing too little, vote for someone else, but you don't, so you are not making any point.

By the way, you can still donate to charity, since you're all about that instead, so Obama isn't stoppig you from it at all.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Since when do you pay taxes?

Ever since I heard you retired and needed some SS and Medicaid.

So, I guess, about 34 years ago.

LOL, I wish I had Medicaid, it'd save me $600 a month that I pay for shitty Health Ins.

 

[Tab]

My opinion is that my taxes are always too high...