What's wrong with near 100% death tax?

[palehorse]

think outside the box: Arrange total liquidation of all assets into a Swiss bank account (or other). Ensure all the usual capital-gains taxes are taken out, and simply pass your kids the account numbers/passwords in your will, or before your death. problem solved...

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

This IS a socialist country comrade; you just don't see it yet. We've been heading towards it since the 1930's, and I can assure you even GWB helps push it towards the liberal?s eventual goal with high spending and patriot acts. Only a true conservative would alter our course prior to hitting communism.

I disagree. Rather, I think we have a mixed economy--a mixture of socialist and capitalist elements.

For the most part it's worked pretty well. The economic system itself has proven to be pretty good; most of our problems are really social problems (that mask themselves as being economic) or they're related to international trade issues (ie, global labor arbitrage). An example of a social problem is when irresponsible people have more children than they can afford to raise or when they raise their children to be stupid and don't value education.

My theory is that, absent global labor arbitrage, you could take our mixed economy and have a prosperous society if the citizenry acted rationally (no drugs, few or no children people can't afford to have, little or no crime, etc.).

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: her209
The only potential problem I see with "the plan" is that people will start offing the rich people, which may or may not be a good thing. :laugh:

This could actually happen, death tax or no, if the nation ends up as a third world country. (If you think the middle class, the blue collar class, and the poor feel animosity towards the rich right now, you haven't seen anything yet.)

Is it true that in South America, the upper classes lived behind gated and guarded walls and travel by helicopter in order to avoid being kidnapped and held for ransom? (I'd love to read some articles about this, btw, in case anyone has links.)

Nice article I read not too long ago on this subject...
http://finance.yahoo.com/expert/article...9750;_ylt=AloEMoD7oWIMq2AobMNMLe4xt9IF

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: Pacemaker

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Imagine being a child and your parents die...your parents happen to have a bit of money...but since the death tax is 100%, off to the orphanage you go.

Right, that's why I said "apart from some exceptions"...


But something similar did happen to me - my dad died 4 years ago and since he didn't have a will, ownership of an apartment him and my mom owned passed down onto me, my sister and my mom according to Bulgarian laws. My mom sold that apartment a year later, and offered to give me a third, but I couldn't take it. How could I? Its not like I ever did anything to deserve it.

Another common example... I have a number of friends that drive cars given to them by their parents, and they refer to these cars as "my car", despite the fact they did nothing to earn said car except exist.

But based on replies and conversations with friends, I suppose I really am in a small minority when I think that unless you worked and earned something, it's not really yours...

The government didn't earn the money either, but you suggest giving it to them?

For same reason you pay taxes now... so the government can cover their expenses. Why pay taxes while you can use your money when you can pay them when you're no longer around?

 

[Cogman]

This is a dumb Idea. The government does a bad enough job managing the funds that It has, why should we give them more money in hopes that it will make a better government or society? What would probably happen is the congress members would pass a law exempting them from a death tax and give themselves a pay raise. Sorry, not what I want to happen to MY money that I earned. Why should the government be responsible for me spoiling my kids? Should I be ridiculously taxed if it is determined that the only reason my kids are doing better is because their daddy is rich? So lets just make everyone poor so that nobody has any aspirations to do anything great, after all, if someone does something great that will make they guy that can't feel sad, and heaven forbid we do that!

The post I can see above my with the "My car" argument is flawed. Can I ask you, who paid for your education? Certainly was not you, so really it is not your education, you simply got it for existing in America. Those that worked initially (mainly your Parents) are the ones that earned your education, even it if it is a public school education, someone paid for it. And what if you never amount to anything and just live off the dole? Certainly you are not paying for the education that was given to you, in fact you are just living off of more stuff that isn't yours.

Don't we have enough taxes? My goodness some people are never satisfied with someone being able to have an advantage over another person in life. I guess everyone that has a IQ over 2 should have a lobotomy to keep everything fair... Pathetic.

On last thing, If someone does inherit what their daddy's create, how long do you think that money will last before someone has to do something to make a living? If the kid is really as stupid as you want to make him, then the money will last 1 may be 2 generations, and then it will be distributed to the economy, making more jobs and giving more people a chance to succeed in life. I don't see how that is a totally bad thing. If he can keep it perpetual, then he must be smarted then you are accrediting him to be and he will still be contributing to the overall economy, as will his family and those to follow.

Again, what a stupid tax idea.

 

[Pacemaker]

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: Pacemaker

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Imagine being a child and your parents die...your parents happen to have a bit of money...but since the death tax is 100%, off to the orphanage you go.

Right, that's why I said "apart from some exceptions"...


But something similar did happen to me - my dad died 4 years ago and since he didn't have a will, ownership of an apartment him and my mom owned passed down onto me, my sister and my mom according to Bulgarian laws. My mom sold that apartment a year later, and offered to give me a third, but I couldn't take it. How could I? Its not like I ever did anything to deserve it.

Another common example... I have a number of friends that drive cars given to them by their parents, and they refer to these cars as "my car", despite the fact they did nothing to earn said car except exist.

But based on replies and conversations with friends, I suppose I really am in a small minority when I think that unless you worked and earned something, it's not really yours...

The government didn't earn the money either, but you suggest giving it to them?

For same reason you pay taxes now... so the government can cover their expenses. Why pay taxes while you can use your money when you can pay them when you're no longer around?

Yes, but I'm not the one who suggested that "unless you worked and earned something, it's not really yours..." You did. So explain why the government should be given anything unless they earn it.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Thank you for the link to that excellent op-ed, Martin.

 

[ericlp]

Yeah, I like the death tax... But, I would make it on a sliding scale... Anyone that dies with under 500K gets taxed at 20% 1 Million 30% 2 Mil 40% 3 Mil 50% Grater then 5 Mil 95%...

That way when gorge bushes dad dies he won't get jack.... The ultra rich should be really penalized since they are usually the ones that can best afford the tax.

 

[International Machine Consortium]

Originally posted by: Martin

Apart from some minor exceptions (for example, leaving a dwelling and some money to your spouse), why shouldn't you be taxed when you die? You certainly don't need the money, your children will succeed or fail based on their own merits, and you'd be able to enjoy much lower tax rates while you're still alive.

The only losers would be the rich who can't make it on their own but rely on their family's wealth. And I can't see that as a bad thing really...

Because I don't want to dedicate my time on this earth to financing the federal war machine.
If I want to give land and money to my children to enrich their lives (beyond what their own success has taken them) I should be able to do that.

You obviously have no money in your family. I'd say you're a goddamned commie.

 

[International Machine Consortium]

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Spoken by those who will never amount to anything. Work harder and you will feel differently when you have a family. I don't care what the tards on the hill do now because my family is all protected.....family trust FTW.

Let me guess, your kids are smart, beautiful and oh-so-very special... just like everyone else's. :roll:

They're better off than you and yours, that's for sure. What a bizarre attitude you have.

 

[International Machine Consortium]

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
100% death tax.

So a guy starts a business... makes some money... grows the business... employs lots of people... makes more money, paying taxes all the way... then when he dies, his family gets nothing, his business is liquidated, his employees lose their jobs... How is this good?

It doesn't even have to be a business. A person can work hard and save up $1 mil and then when he dies, his kids won't see the fruit of his labor. It will go to the government so they can donate it to Israel and Iraq.

That and the basic demogogery (sp) that comes from those who are jealous of people who made some money in their time on earth. God forbid their kids should have any kind of a head start in life.

Pension funds manage enormous amounts of wealth, so obviously there's no need for liquidation and things like that.

But I'm afraid the only demagoguery comes from the "oh, what will my special little precious children do without inheritance" crowd. It's not jealousy - some people just like the idea of a meritocracy.

Somebody got kicked out of the will or is jealous of someone who inherited money.

 

[Aisengard]

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
100% death tax.

So a guy starts a business... makes some money... grows the business... employs lots of people... makes more money, paying taxes all the way... then when he dies, his family gets nothing, his business is liquidated, his employees lose their jobs... How is this good?

It doesn't even have to be a business. A person can work hard and save up $1 mil and then when he dies, his kids won't see the fruit of his labor. It will go to the government so they can donate it to Israel and Iraq.

That and the basic demogogery (sp) that comes from those who are jealous of people who made some money in their time on earth. God forbid their kids should have any kind of a head start in life.

Pension funds manage enormous amounts of wealth, so obviously there's no need for liquidation and things like that.

But I'm afraid the only demagoguery comes from the "oh, what will my special little precious children do without inheritance" crowd. It's not jealousy - some people just like the idea of a meritocracy.

Somebody got kicked out of the will or is jealous of someone who inherited money.

Yeah, it's usually the have-nots who want to take it away from the people who do have it.

It's almost like saying "But MY mommy didn't give me an X-BOX for christmas, what did little Jimmy do to deserve his! NO ONE should have an XBOX!"

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: Balt
The money was already taxed when it was earned the first time.

Taxing it again just because someone died and wanted to pass it on to their family is lame.

Money is taxed every time it changes hands. Let the drones go to work.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Balt

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
100% death tax.

So a guy starts a business... makes some money... grows the business... employs lots of people... makes more money, paying taxes all the way... then when he dies, his family gets nothing, his business is liquidated, his employees lose their jobs... How is this good?

It doesn't even have to be a business. A person can work hard and save up $1 mil and then when he dies, his kids won't see the fruit of his labor. It will go to the government so they can donate it to Israel and Iraq.

That and the basic demogogery (sp) that comes from those who are jealous of people who made some money in their time on earth. God forbid their kids should have any kind of a head start in life.

Pension funds manage enormous amounts of wealth, so obviously there's no need for liquidation and things like that.

But I'm afraid the only demagoguery comes from the "oh, what will my special little precious children do without inheritance" crowd. It's not jealousy - some people just like the idea of a meritocracy.

Someone worked and spent their life earning that money. It is THEIR money and it has already been taxed. No one should tell them how they can and can't pass it on, and it certainly shouldn't be confiscated by the government like it was something 'evil' or illegal that they didn't deserve.

If parents decide they want their children to go it alone, they can decide to leave it to charity. If they decide they want to leave it to their kids and family, then they should be able to and everyone else should mind their own f'ing business.

technically unearned gains (property appreciation, capital gain) have not been taxed, which was one of the reasons for inheiritance tax, anyone being the idea of meritocracy and fears of entrenched class systems. Some fvcktard getting a pile of money because his grandpa was wealthy and success is not a good thing, but it happens all the time. I woudl say that at the current rates and decendant should certainly be allowed to pass some wealth on to ones decendants, perhaps a few hundred thousand or so per individual, but entitling your descendants to the right to exist without contributing anything to society is disgusting. This country needs less of the Paris Hilton Syndrome, not more of it.

 

[SexyK]

This is the worst idea I've ever heard. You say that you couldn't take 1/3 of the money from the sale of your parents' home after your father died because you "didn't earn it". Honestly, I think that's a slap in the face to your father. He worked hard during his life and I'm sure that when he was working he didn't expect to live forever - he expected to be able to provide for those he cares about once he was gone. The fact that you would rather have all the wealth he worked so hard for go to the government that go toward enriching the life of you and your children is appalling.

I know that when I'm working, I'm working first and foremost so that I can provide for my family. I'm willing to work long hours just because I know that if something happened to me, my family would be able to go on and enjoy the fruits of MY labor even though I couldn't be there with them. There is nothing honorable about turning away from the wealth that your father left for you. He worked hard for that money so that you could benefit, and now that he's gone you'd rather it be vaporized into nothingness - as if your father had never existed, never worked, never sweat to make your life what it is. Truly, truly appalling.

 

[spittledip]

I guess for some here the govt is their favorite charity.

 

[Corbett]

Wow. Socialism at its finiest.

That would be a great motivator in life to know that if I work hard and ear lots of money, it will all go to the government when I die and not my children. I cant believe some of the responces I am seeing in this thread.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium

Originally posted by: Martin

Apart from some minor exceptions (for example, leaving a dwelling and some money to your spouse), why shouldn't you be taxed when you die? You certainly don't need the money, your children will succeed or fail based on their own merits, and you'd be able to enjoy much lower tax rates while you're still alive.

The only losers would be the rich who can't make it on their own but rely on their family's wealth. And I can't see that as a bad thing really...

Because I don't want to dedicate my time on this earth to financing the federal war machine.
If I want to give land and money to my children to enrich their lives (beyond what their own success has taken them) I should be able to do that.

You obviously have no money in your family. I'd say you're a goddamned commie.

I agree with you one hundred percent on this one.

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: Martin
My mom sold that apartment a year later, and offered to give me a third, but I couldn't take it. How could I? Its not like I ever did anything to deserve it.

WTH?

What planet are you from? You get an inheritance and turn it down because you dont believe you deserve it?

I think that shows what the whole basis of this thread is to begin with.

 

[jlmadyson]

Originally posted by: Corbett
Wow. Socialism at its finiest.

That would be a great motivator in life to know that if I work hard and ear lots of money, it will all go to the government when I die and not my children. I cant believe some of the responces I am seeing in this thread.

QFT, borderline Communism.

No, scratch that, it is, @100%, that is just straight up retarded.

File this in the not going to happen ever category.

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: jlmadyson

Originally posted by: Corbett
Wow. Socialism at its finiest.

That would be a great motivator in life to know that if I work hard and ear lots of money, it will all go to the government when I die and not my children. I cant believe some of the responces I am seeing in this thread.

QFT, borderline Communism.

No, scratch that, it is, @100%, that is just straight up retarded.

File this in the not going to happen ever category.

I fail to see how this is borderline communism. This actually enforces the idea of a meritocracy. You earn what you work for. I personally don't advocate a 100% estate tax but I do think it should be pretty high above a certain point. I also think it would go a decently long ways toward lowering taxes on the still living.

I don't have this view because the people are wealthy. Hell, more power to them for working their ass off. I just don't believe someone should be given extremely valuable assets when they did nothing to earn them.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: jlmadyson

Originally posted by: Corbett
Wow. Socialism at its finiest.

That would be a great motivator in life to know that if I work hard and ear lots of money, it will all go to the government when I die and not my children. I cant believe some of the responces I am seeing in this thread.

QFT, borderline Communism.

No, scratch that, it is, @100%, that is just straight up retarded.

File this in the not going to happen ever category.

I fail to see how this is borderline communism. This actually enforces the idea of a meritocracy. You earn what you work for. I personally don't advocate a 100% estate tax but I do think it should be pretty high above a certain point. I also think it would go a decently long ways toward lowering taxes on the still living.

I don't have this view because the people are wealthy. Hell, more power to them for working their ass off. I just don't believe someone should be given extremely valuable assets when they did nothing to earn them.

Well hell, lets start taxing our kids Christmas presents. I mean really, what did my 4 year old do to earn his leapstar? How about the bike that I bought him, what did he do to earn that?

What is wrong with you people, why is it that you are so eager to tax any and everything that you possibly can? You even want to tax people once they are dead, this is ridiculous. Maybe we should work on cutting spending and worry less about raising taxes.

 

[Balt]

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: jlmadyson

Originally posted by: Corbett
Wow. Socialism at its finiest.

That would be a great motivator in life to know that if I work hard and ear lots of money, it will all go to the government when I die and not my children. I cant believe some of the responces I am seeing in this thread.

QFT, borderline Communism.

No, scratch that, it is, @100%, that is just straight up retarded.

File this in the not going to happen ever category.

I fail to see how this is borderline communism. This actually enforces the idea of a meritocracy. You earn what you work for. I personally don't advocate a 100% estate tax but I do think it should be pretty high above a certain point. I also think it would go a decently long ways toward lowering taxes on the still living.

I don't have this view because the people are wealthy. Hell, more power to them for working their ass off. I just don't believe someone should be given extremely valuable assets when they did nothing to earn them.

As I already pointed out earlier in this thread, there is no reason to believe a high death tax would produce a meritocracy. While the parents are still alive (before you want the government to steal all of their money), they will use their wealth to send their children to better schools and colleges, give them tutors if they need it, etc.

So either way children that come from wealthy families will still have advantages. That's the way it is unless you want the government dictating EVERYTHING. This idea that hijacking all of the parents' money upon their deaths will mean that everyone in society thrives or falls completely based on their own merits is ridiculous.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Corbett
Wow. Socialism at its finiest.

That would be a great motivator in life to know that if I work hard and ear lots of money, it will all go to the government when I die and not my children. I cant believe some of the responces I am seeing in this thread.

yet earning lots of money remains a popular pastime, as per my sig

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: jlmadyson

Originally posted by: Corbett
Wow. Socialism at its finiest.

That would be a great motivator in life to know that if I work hard and ear lots of money, it will all go to the government when I die and not my children. I cant believe some of the responces I am seeing in this thread.

QFT, borderline Communism.

No, scratch that, it is, @100%, that is just straight up retarded.

File this in the not going to happen ever category.

I fail to see how this is borderline communism. This actually enforces the idea of a meritocracy. You earn what you work for. I personally don't advocate a 100% estate tax but I do think it should be pretty high above a certain point. I also think it would go a decently long ways toward lowering taxes on the still living.

I don't have this view because the people are wealthy. Hell, more power to them for working their ass off. I just don't believe someone should be given extremely valuable assets when they did nothing to earn them.

Well hell, lets start taxing our kids Christmas presents. I mean really, what did my 4 year old do to earn his leapstar? How about the bike that I bought him, what did he do to earn that?

What is wrong with you people, why is it that you are so eager to tax any and everything that you possibly can? You even want to tax people once they are dead, this is ridiculous. Maybe we should work on cutting spending and worry less about raising taxes.

Nice hyperbole. :roll: I'm not saying we should have a 100% estate tax. I do, however, at the very least think it should be taxed as income. That unfortunately would not solve the problem an estate tax could solve which only occurs at the highest income quintile. There could possibly be a sliding scale but to be honest I have no great argument against considering it anything other than income.

I'm definitely not someone who is looking to tax everything that can be taxed to the maximum amount. I would prefer cuts on spending probably even more than you. But there would still be spending and that require the government to come up with revenue. I would rather shift taxes to where they make sense. This makes complete sense. The person is dead and doesn't really have property rights. It also promotes meritocracy and puts a stop to societal leeches.