What's wrong with Israelis???

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Spencer278

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2002
3,637
0
0
Originally posted by: miguel
Originally posted by: Spencer278
Originally posted by: miguel
Originally posted by: Spencer278
Originally posted by: miguel
Originally posted by: Spencer278

If israel doesn't want thier civilians target maybe they should stop using "civilians" to occupy their stolen land.
Interesting argument. That holds that if terrorists are hiding in a school building full of children, the US can fire a cruise missle into that building and it would have your thumbs up?
No but they should raid the school and kill the terrorist that are occupying the school. How does that relate to the problem in isreal?
You wrote that israel should stop using civilians to occupy stolen land. By using them, they become valid targets.
So are you implying that terrorists in schools are not valid targets? So in your example the terrorist are the settlers and the school/childern are the people displaced by the settlers then who the heck is the US and which side are they on?

Or where you just trying to get a save the childern and terroist in the same post.
OK, let me try that again. I admit it wasn't very clear. Terrorists in schools are valid targets. The children are not. You suggested that civilians are valid targets because they set up a settlement in somebody else's land. I'm challenging your notion that civilians are valid targets because of that. I used the school building example (probably not the best example, come to think of it) to try and show that the civilians are NEVER valid targets, regardless of the result.
Correct the wanted result does not effect if a target is valid it is the actions of the targets that determine if it is a valid. Civilians have always been valid targets in war if the Civilians have been part of the war effort, maily manufactoring, food, and house of troops. The settlers are simple occupying land for their goverment and I think the either get the land/house for cheap or free.
 

miguel

Senior member
Nov 2, 2001
621
0
0
Originally posted by: Spencer278

Correct the wanted result does not effect if a target is valid it is the actions of the targets that determine if it is a valid. Civilians have always been valid targets in war if the Civilians have been part of the war effort, maily manufactoring, food, and house of troops. The settlers are simple occupying land for their goverment and I think the either get the land/house for cheap or free.
Are they still subsidizing the settlements? Geez, Israel should just stop that and secure the borders they have now. However, killing the settlers is not acceptable in any instance, I think.

 

LilBlinbBlahIce

Golden Member
Dec 31, 2001
1,837
0
0
Originally posted by: miguel
Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce
Originally posted by: miguel
Originally posted by: SweetSweetLeroyBrown
it's no use dealing with the settlers

they think they are "god's chosen people"

there's no way to reason with that sort of mentality
Being that I started this thread, I guess I should post to it. I agree with what you wrote above, brown, but what others posted about it being OK to kill them is ridiculous and ignorant.
It's never ok to kill anyone and that is not what I posted or implied. I just said that them putting themselves in a place where they have no right to be, that is on stolen land, makes them legitamate targets. It's synonymous to people acting as human shields for Saddam. They are civilians, yes, but they have chosen to put themselves in danger just as they could have chosen to be somewhere else out of danger instead. People in Israel and in the Palestinian territory don't have that luxury, they are where they are, settlers choose to be where they are. And I blame those scum settlers for the deaths of their children, putting their own flesh and blood's life at risk to prove some distorted point, they are no better than the parents of suicide bombers IMO.
What's with the dual identities?
Beg your pardon? I think what I said was quite clear and went along the lines of what Spencer said. Civilians should not be legitimate targets, but if they put themselves in a position of harm, by choice, what can be done? Beleive me, if you stole my land and set up shop there, I would not feel too bad about shooting your ass, and I don't think you, or anyone else can honestly say otherwise either. It's the price you pay for your actions, simple as that.
 

miguel

Senior member
Nov 2, 2001
621
0
0
Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce
Originally posted by: miguel
Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce
Originally posted by: miguel
Originally posted by: SweetSweetLeroyBrown
it's no use dealing with the settlers

they think they are "god's chosen people"

there's no way to reason with that sort of mentality
Being that I started this thread, I guess I should post to it. I agree with what you wrote above, brown, but what others posted about it being OK to kill them is ridiculous and ignorant.
It's never ok to kill anyone and that is not what I posted or implied. I just said that them putting themselves in a place where they have no right to be, that is on stolen land, makes them legitamate targets. It's synonymous to people acting as human shields for Saddam. They are civilians, yes, but they have chosen to put themselves in danger just as they could have chosen to be somewhere else out of danger instead. People in Israel and in the Palestinian territory don't have that luxury, they are where they are, settlers choose to be where they are. And I blame those scum settlers for the deaths of their children, putting their own flesh and blood's life at risk to prove some distorted point, they are no better than the parents of suicide bombers IMO.
What's with the dual identities?
Beg your pardon?
You wrote: "It's never ok to kill anyone and that is not what I posted or implied" However, SweetSweetLeroyBrown wrote that, and this would be your first post to this thread. I asked why you were using both SweetSweetLeroyBrown and LilBlinbBlahIce to post?
 

LilBlinbBlahIce

Golden Member
Dec 31, 2001
1,837
0
0
Originally posted by: miguel
Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce
Originally posted by: miguel
Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce
Originally posted by: miguel
Originally posted by: SweetSweetLeroyBrown
it's no use dealing with the settlers

they think they are "god's chosen people"

there's no way to reason with that sort of mentality
Being that I started this thread, I guess I should post to it. I agree with what you wrote above, brown, but what others posted about it being OK to kill them is ridiculous and ignorant.
It's never ok to kill anyone and that is not what I posted or implied. I just said that them putting themselves in a place where they have no right to be, that is on stolen land, makes them legitamate targets. It's synonymous to people acting as human shields for Saddam. They are civilians, yes, but they have chosen to put themselves in danger just as they could have chosen to be somewhere else out of danger instead. People in Israel and in the Palestinian territory don't have that luxury, they are where they are, settlers choose to be where they are. And I blame those scum settlers for the deaths of their children, putting their own flesh and blood's life at risk to prove some distorted point, they are no better than the parents of suicide bombers IMO.
What's with the dual identities?
Beg your pardon?
You wrote: "It's never ok to kill anyone and that is not what I posted or implied" However, SweetSweetLeroyBrown wrote that, and this would be your first post to this thread. I asked why you were using both SweetSweetLeroyBrown and LilBlinbBlahIce to post?
Did it ever occur to you that people might say the same thing without realizing it? My only handle is LilBlinbblahIce, has been for years. It is not exactly the most complicated sentence to come up with you know.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
just some pics of a very minor suicide bombing that killed only one
multiply that by 23 killed, 108 injured for a recent one in january. bombs laced with rat poison, even bombers infected with HIV. xrays of bomb victims

israel puts its soldiers on trial that commit murder
palestinians celebrate murder, families are paid, trading cards are printed, posters glorifying the deed are put up.
actualy they dont put them on trial, there have been hundreds if not thousands of investigations that the Isreali army has done on soldiers and only a handful have led to anything, the rest, just shoved under the rug.

Israel is not the glory state you seem to see
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,862
84
91
the basic fact is this, israel will put israelis in jail for commiting attrocities.

palestinians will revel in the blood letting. joyous government supported propaganda touting such violence, and mothers proclaiming they are proud of their child suicide bombers. from government to culture, you are blind to how rotten the apple is.

glory? i never claimed israel is a glory state, but in comparison to the level of inhumanity of the palestinians, a very very low standard, they could be.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
the basic fact is this, israel will put israelis in jail for commiting attrocities.

palestinians will revel in the blood letting. joyous government supported propaganda touting such violence, and mothers proclaiming they are proud of their child suicide bombers. from government to culture, you are blind to how rotten the apple is.

glory? i never claimed israel is a glory state, but in comparison to the level of inhumanity of the palestinians, they could be.
then tell me, do the palestinian authority have the same control over its people as the Israeli gov does over its people?
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,862
84
91
when the government supports propaganda and programs touting the acts of suicide bombers as wonderful amoung other horrors on a scale and type only seen in the days of hitler, yes, the government has control. their government has no will to crack down, it actively supports such acts, and through willful neglect allows them to happen. its corrupt to the bone, and arafat set it up that way to keep himself in power. just as saddams government was corrupt to the bone to allow him to pull strings quite easily. there isn't even a real attempt to punish terror. you talk as if governments can literally control citizens, but its not that simple. governments can influence and create disincentives to certain behavior. palestinians don't even attempt to create disincentives since their whole program is to tout terror. it is entirely the opposite, they actively persue and encourage such violence. allowing their children to be indoctrinated with hatred spewing textbooks, allowing official government religious leaders to spew hatred and on and on. you pretend the palestinians are impotent, when its simply a lack of will. they don't want to crack down on terrorism, they support it. it is their tool of choice.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
so there is nothing wrong with the Israeli gov supporting settlers, supporting actions taken by settlers, and so on in so forth, but its wrong for the palestinian authority to supporting "resistance groups" ? thats a double standard isnt it?

now check out this map
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/middle_east/03/v3_israel_palestinians/maps/html/autonomy_population.stm
see the dark green spots, thats the area the palestinians have control over their own security as in has policing authority, the rest is what Israel controles, now I ask you again, does the Palestinian authority have the same control over its own people as the Israeli gov has over its people?
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,862
84
91
back to the desperate and illogical comparison between blowing up civilians and settling uninhabited land:p its not the same! you live in a world devoid of distinctions. based on your reasoning the US could throw a nuke at mexico for sending illegal immigrants over. its action reaction, differences be damned.

and poor czar, still pretending control has to do with territory, it has to do with disincentives, and not using government media to promote acts of terrorism, government dollars to fund groups who support terror, a government that supports religious leaders that spew hatred. a government that allows children to be indoctrinated with hatred and violence. and your saying they are powerless to hold the terrorists in? of course they are powerless to contain it, they are busy breeding the terrorism.

and terrorism existed before any settlements existed btw.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
uninhabited land? so if lets say, china started to move into sibera wouldnt that piss of the russians?
well then I dont think you get my reasoning since I dont know what you are talking about a nuke, mexico and so on, just so you get it clear, I am not and I have never defended palestinian terrorism.

control comes over what actions you can take, in the US for instance you follow the laws created by your gov because the gov can take actions against you braking those laws. You dont follow the laws because the gov tell you to but because there are consequences for braking them.

and basicly that middle paragraph can be very much used to describe Israel just as it can to describe Palestine.

well, Terrorism has existed before settlements in a way perhaps, when Israel was founded there were Jewish settlers living there, and they were using terrorism to drive the people living there away

What excuse do you have for the settlements?
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,862
84
91
if russia had lost two wars against china and continued to suicide bomb chinese citizens, maybe then your comparison would be valid.

and i'm sorry, the israeli government doesn't support incitements to murder as the palestinians do on all forms of media, through financial support of terrorist groups, through education aka brainwashing of children to fill them with hatred, to even pretend its true is quite desperate.

the palestinains have supported collective punishment from day 1. and now you have the gall to complain of settlements? at best you can argue squatting on land won through war, and you think that suicide bombing civilians even begins to compare? you are truely twisted.

and you have a skewed view of history. a good 35% of palestinians population growth before the planned partition was from ARAB IMMIGRANTS. and this was because the british restricted jewish immigration and allowed free flow of arab immigration to appease to the population. all those arab "settlers" came and "stole" the land. you are truely anti semitic as they come or simply ignorant.

time to sleep at last.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
ok, nothing will make you see Israel in bad light at all, if its one thing I have learned from arguing about exactly this subject on this forum for many years now is that blind supporters of either side tend to stay blind
 

PentiumIV

Member
Feb 19, 2001
56
0
0
Israelies want lo live !

This is what is wrong with Israel !

If you know the map of Israel, you may know that the distance from the seashore at Tel-Aviv
to the "green line" is only 21km. A good reason to build "settlments" :)

As a matter of fact, if you ever visit Israel, you should know that many Jewish "settlements" were built in
place of communities destroyed by Arabs For example, Gush Etzion, near Jerusalem. There all the Jews
were slaughtered during the Independence War of 1948-1949.Jews came to Hebron, because it is the
second holiest Jewish city, after Jerusalem. Arabs slaughtered the Jewish community there in 1929.


"Palestinians" have the same fate as Sutettenland Germans of Czechoslovakia....
 

PentiumIV

Member
Feb 19, 2001
56
0
0
So-called "Palestinian" authonomy can be safely described as a Nazi regime, with all its attributes.

"Palestinian" schoolbooks preach hatred of Jews, and preach genocide of Jews.
In Israel there were (or are) peace lessons, where teachers teach co-existence.

If Israeli gets into Ramalla, he is likely to be lynched.
Israeli Arabs are citizens of the state with full rights. As a matter of fact, my direct manager is an
Israeli Muslim Aram. Real nice guy, I must admit.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,677
136
yea, like when a palestinian sniper shot a 10 month old settler baby in the head. no mercy.....
Link that up, OK? reminds me of the Kuwaiti incubator stories, later proven false... The massacres at sabra and shatilla were definitely real, otoh. Oh, yeh, Sharon's forces didn't do the actual killing, they just made sure it would happen- "I didn't rape her, I just held her down for the other guys."

It's not uninhabited land, not at all. The palestinians use it for grazing and farming. If anything, Israeli settlers have chosen to occupy and defend some of the better land in the West Bank, particularly land with water resources... and their government has encouraged it, made it possible with various legal machinations... Some of it is rather sparsely populated, given that the occupants fled for their lives when the israeli army came in...

There will be no peace as long as the settlers and the likudniks espouse the concept of greater Israel- it's obviously contrary to the whole notion of peace. Given that the apparent majority of Israelis insist on a Jewish rather than a secular state, partition is the only answer. The Geneva agreement would probably provide that, not that the current american or israeli admin's will touch it with a pole...

And, uhh, cut the anti-semite name-calling. The guilt trip is wearing thin, and equating the state of israel with all jews everywhere does many jews a disservice. They're not all conniving Zionist zealots intent of fulfilling biblical prophecy thru conquest and subjugation... neither are all israelis, either.

By and large, Palestinians are Semites, too... moreso than many of the europeanized jews in israel, for that matter...
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,862
84
91
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
yea, like when a palestinian sniper shot a 10 month old settler baby in the head. no mercy.....
Link that up, OK? reminds me of the Kuwaiti incubator stories, later proven false... The massacres at sabra and shatilla were definitely real, otoh. Oh, yeh, Sharon's forces didn't do the actual killing, they just made sure it would happen- "I didn't rape her, I just held her down for the other guys."

It's not uninhabited land, not at all. The palestinians use it for grazing and farming. If anything, Israeli settlers have chosen to occupy and defend some of the better land in the West Bank, particularly land with water resources... and their government has encouraged it, made it possible with various legal machinations... Some of it is rather sparsely populated, given that the occupants fled for their lives when the israeli army came in...

There will be no peace as long as the settlers and the likudniks espouse the concept of greater Israel- it's obviously contrary to the whole notion of peace. Given that the apparent majority of Israelis insist on a Jewish rather than a secular state, partition is the only answer. The Geneva agreement would probably provide that, not that the current american or israeli admin's will touch it with a pole...

And, uhh, cut the anti-semite name-calling. The guilt trip is wearing thin, and equating the state of israel with all jews everywhere does many jews a disservice. They're not all conniving Zionist zealots intent of fulfilling biblical prophecy thru conquest and subjugation... neither are all israelis, either.

By and large, Palestinians are Semites, too... moreso than many of the europeanized jews in israel, for that matter...

use google, search for "10 month old" "baby" "settler" or "palestinian" "shot" "sniper" etc.. its rather easy. pentiumiv just did your work for you.

and don't even try twisting the definition of the term anti semite. it was defined by the person who created it. if you don't know about that, look it up.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS