Whats Wrong With Diesel in USA?

[EightySix Four]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: franksta
Have you ever tried to fill up a tank with diesel? First you have to find a station that has it, as not everyone does. Then there's only a pump or two that actually dispense the stuff. Sometimes it's out behind the back of the building. Then surprise surprise you have to wait in line behind 4 trucks filling 30+ gallon tanks and maybe auxiliary tanks for the tractor, generator, and who knows what else.

I drove around for half an hour one time in my dad's F-350 and that's almost the story from it. Good ol' 87 octane is just fine for me thanks. At least until the distribution of diesel is better.

Move to Texas.

I live in Texas, in the northern suburbs of Plano/Frisco, where every vehicle seems to be a Mercedes, BMW, or Cadillac SUV, and Diesel is not all that easy to find, and it's usually only at one pump when it is available. It also tends to be drastically more expensive.

I live in Highland Park and Forney depending on if I'm in school or not, and while it's a bit tougher to find in HP, 50% of the stations have it. In Forney (30 mins east of Dallas) every station has it.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Originally posted by: Beanie46

Well, it's a rare happening, probably never actually, that a barrel of oil is refined into one single product. Instead, a barrel of oil typically yields this when refined:

19.5 gal gasoline
9.2 gal diesel
1.75 gal other distillates, typically heating oil
1.76 gal heavy fuel oil (residual)
3.82 gal jet fuel
1.72 gal liquefied petroleum gases (LPG)
7.27 gal other products (road tar, asphalt, coke, lubricants, kerosene, etc.)

All of which adds up to a greater volume than the 42 gal in a barrel of oil, > 2.2 gal more in fact. This is called the "processing gain."

Another factor in diesel is that the federal tax on diesel is, as of now, .06 (six cents) higher per gallon than on gas.

An excellent point. Your post reinforces the notion that putting millions upon millions of motorists in competition with shipping firms, rail freight companies, and anyone using construction equipment over a limited supply of diesel fuel makes no economic sense. You get a bunch of unleaded gasoline either way so you may as well use it for something.

How they manage to get away with it in Europe I do not know, but whoever refines petroleum for European countries may simple be exporting the gasoline elsewhere.

 

[RU482]

Diesel in the US is more expensive because of supply and demand.

Demand comes from our larger reliance on OTR trucking of our goods

Anyone who thinks we should switch commuter transportation from gasoline to diesel better figure out a way to make an 18-wheeler run more cost effectively on gasoline (or figure out a mass alternative to OTR transport of most of our goods)...plain and simple

 

[Farang]

Originally posted by: ZickZJ

Originally posted by: Possessed Freak
Amazingly, diesel used to be cheaper then gasoline. It is only in the past few years that it increased in price over gas.

x2

Iraq

 

[RU482]

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: ZickZJ

Originally posted by: Possessed Freak
Amazingly, diesel used to be cheaper then gasoline. It is only in the past few years that it increased in price over gas.

x2

Iraq

Graph: US prices nationwide avg: diesel vs gasoline 1994 - 2009

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: thescreensavers
How come in the USA we don't have more Diesel cars like in Europe!

MPG problem would be solved.

VW Polo $13,000-$16,000 70mpg

0-60: 8.2 sec
Top Speed 134mph

So why do we need all these complex battery, drive train, electric engine systems when you can get better gas mileage on a pure Diesel engine!

And on a side note you can actually hear the polo at slow speeds so blind people are not endanger!

You have quoted the performance figures of the 1.8L turbocharged gasoline powered Polo. No diesel Polo does 60 in 8.2 seconds.

One of my cars does it in 7.5 and is a diesel, though. BMW diesel FTW!

 

[thescreensavers]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: thescreensavers


You have quoted the performance figures of the 1.8L turbocharged gasoline powered Polo. No diesel Polo does 60 in 8.2 seconds.

One of my cars does it in 7.5 and is a diesel, though. BMW diesel FTW!

I just googled VW polo 0-60 and saw 8.2 on a few sites so that what I put it could be the turboed one

 

[angry hampster]

Originally posted by: RU482

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: ZickZJ

Originally posted by: Possessed Freak
Amazingly, diesel used to be cheaper then gasoline. It is only in the past few years that it increased in price over gas.

x2

Iraq

Graph: US prices nationwide avg: diesel vs gasoline 1994 - 2009

...No time line?

 

[Knavish]

Originally posted by: Beanie46

Originally posted by: Knavish


When you refine a barrel of oil into diesel, you get fewer gallons then when you refine it into gasoline. This is reflected in how diesel has more energy per volume than gasoline, and is part of why diesel cars get better MPG! I'd imagine this makes diesel more expensive than gas.
...

Well, it's a rare happening, probably never actually, that a barrel of oil is refined into one single product. Instead, a barrel of oil typically yields this when refined:

19.5 gal gasoline
9.2 gal diesel
1.75 gal other distillates, typically heating oil
1.76 gal heavy fuel oil (residual)
3.82 gal jet fuel
1.72 gal liquefied petroleum gases (LPG)
7.27 gal other products (road tar, asphalt, coke, lubricants, kerosene, etc.)

All of which adds up to a greater volume than the 42 gal in a barrel of oil, > 2.2 gal more in fact. This is called the "processing gain."

Another factor in diesel is that the federal tax on diesel is, as of now, .06 (six cents) higher per gallon than on gas.

I thought that a barrel of oil was a pretty homogeneous thing. Does this mean that during normal processing it is only efficient to refine 9.2 gallons of diesel out of the crude? As if they break the crude into several component parts, and only ~1/4 of the crude is useful for diesel...???

Or are those numbers representative of demand for petroleum-based products? Meaning that the demand for gasoline is 2x the demand for diesel, so they just produce more gasoline...???

 

[BassBomb]

Originally posted by: ballmode
they charge too much for jeans

I came to post this

 

[RU482]

Originally posted by: angry hampster

Originally posted by: RU482

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: ZickZJ

Originally posted by: Possessed Freak
Amazingly, diesel used to be cheaper then gasoline. It is only in the past few years that it increased in price over gas.

x2

Iraq

Graph: US prices nationwide avg: diesel vs gasoline 1994 - 2009

...No time line?

I messed up and cropped it out. 1994-2009 is the scale

 

[JDub02]

My guess is that California emissions standards are too tough/expensive to meet for most diesels.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: thescreensavers

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: thescreensavers


You have quoted the performance figures of the 1.8L turbocharged gasoline powered Polo. No diesel Polo does 60 in 8.2 seconds.

One of my cars does it in 7.5 and is a diesel, though. BMW diesel FTW!

I just googled VW polo 0-60 and saw 8.2 on a few sites so that what I put it could be the turboed one

lol, the figures I've found for the Diesel Polo put its 0-60 in the 12.8-13.1 range, with a top speed of less than 110mph. (not that going 110 would be advisable in either a Polo or a Prius).

But that pretty much destroys the point of the OP.

Smaller car, similar fuel economy, less convenient / mostly more expensive fuel source, and notably worse performance.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/n...2/volkswagen_polo.html

"The new Polo uses a 1.4-litre three-cylinder engine to achieve its low emissions, and returns 72mpg. However, the 78bhp unit will still give 110mph and a 0-62mph time of 12.8 seconds."

Remember : EU/UK Fuel Economy testing is a world less accurate than the new EPA testing, and exaggerates the numbers quite a bit. Combined with US gallons being smaller, and the EPA testing being more accurate for average US vehicle usage, look for the ~70mpg Polo to actually deliver mid to low 50s, or perhaps even high 40s.

 

[InflatableBuddha]

Originally posted by: Knavish

Originally posted by: Beanie46

Originally posted by: Knavish


When you refine a barrel of oil into diesel, you get fewer gallons then when you refine it into gasoline. This is reflected in how diesel has more energy per volume than gasoline, and is part of why diesel cars get better MPG! I'd imagine this makes diesel more expensive than gas.
...

Well, it's a rare happening, probably never actually, that a barrel of oil is refined into one single product. Instead, a barrel of oil typically yields this when refined:

19.5 gal gasoline
9.2 gal diesel
1.75 gal other distillates, typically heating oil
1.76 gal heavy fuel oil (residual)
3.82 gal jet fuel
1.72 gal liquefied petroleum gases (LPG)
7.27 gal other products (road tar, asphalt, coke, lubricants, kerosene, etc.)

All of which adds up to a greater volume than the 42 gal in a barrel of oil, > 2.2 gal more in fact. This is called the "processing gain."

Another factor in diesel is that the federal tax on diesel is, as of now, .06 (six cents) higher per gallon than on gas.

I thought that a barrel of oil was a pretty homogeneous thing. Does this mean that during normal processing it is only efficient to refine 9.2 gallons of diesel out of the crude? As if they break the crude into several component parts, and only ~1/4 of the crude is useful for diesel...???

Or are those numbers representative of demand for petroleum-based products? Meaning that the demand for gasoline is 2x the demand for diesel, so they just produce more gasoline...???

This. I have wondered if the breakdown of different types of fuel is merely based on market demand.

 

[SonicIce]

I think diesel is more expensive because the oil companies know it's more efficient so they raise the price so they can make the same profit on diesel and gas. Diesel is LESS refined and cheaper the make, thats why it smells like shit. If the price of diesel was what it should be, nobody would buy gas anymore and they don't want that to happen.

 

[ZickZJ]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: angry hampster

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
diesel doesnt cost more than premium anymore (at least in some places)

Depends largely on location. Here in Iowa, diesel is consistently ~20 cents more than premium gas, but an hour south in Missouri they're about equal.


Diesels got bad rep in the US because of the 1970s and early 1980s. Go read up on GM's 5.7L diesel.

You mean GM turning the 350 block into a desiel and failing horrbily at it.
Now, GM has a 4.5L that is due out this year that looks promising.

I wouldn't count on that;
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2...uty-diesel-engine.html

 

[KentState]

Originally posted by: InflatableBuddha

Originally posted by: Knavish

Originally posted by: Beanie46

Originally posted by: Knavish


When you refine a barrel of oil into diesel, you get fewer gallons then when you refine it into gasoline. This is reflected in how diesel has more energy per volume than gasoline, and is part of why diesel cars get better MPG! I'd imagine this makes diesel more expensive than gas.
...

Well, it's a rare happening, probably never actually, that a barrel of oil is refined into one single product. Instead, a barrel of oil typically yields this when refined:

19.5 gal gasoline
9.2 gal diesel
1.75 gal other distillates, typically heating oil
1.76 gal heavy fuel oil (residual)
3.82 gal jet fuel
1.72 gal liquefied petroleum gases (LPG)
7.27 gal other products (road tar, asphalt, coke, lubricants, kerosene, etc.)

All of which adds up to a greater volume than the 42 gal in a barrel of oil, > 2.2 gal more in fact. This is called the "processing gain."

Another factor in diesel is that the federal tax on diesel is, as of now, .06 (six cents) higher per gallon than on gas.

I thought that a barrel of oil was a pretty homogeneous thing. Does this mean that during normal processing it is only efficient to refine 9.2 gallons of diesel out of the crude? As if they break the crude into several component parts, and only ~1/4 of the crude is useful for diesel...???

Or are those numbers representative of demand for petroleum-based products? Meaning that the demand for gasoline is 2x the demand for diesel, so they just produce more gasoline...???

This. I have wondered if the breakdown of different types of fuel is merely based on market demand.

From my understanding, a barrel of oil is much like sour cream for example. When it's whipped up, you have one form, but let it settle, and it breaks down into the various components. With oil, as it is be distilled, it breaks down into gasoline, diesel and the other products listed above.

 

[Fayd]

Originally posted by: Beanie46

Originally posted by: Knavish


When you refine a barrel of oil into diesel, you get fewer gallons then when you refine it into gasoline. This is reflected in how diesel has more energy per volume than gasoline, and is part of why diesel cars get better MPG! I'd imagine this makes diesel more expensive than gas.
...

Well, it's a rare happening, probably never actually, that a barrel of oil is refined into one single product. Instead, a barrel of oil typically yields this when refined:

19.5 gal gasoline
9.2 gal diesel
1.75 gal other distillates, typically heating oil
1.76 gal heavy fuel oil (residual)
3.82 gal jet fuel
1.72 gal liquefied petroleum gases (LPG)
7.27 gal other products (road tar, asphalt, coke, lubricants, kerosene, etc.)

All of which adds up to a greater volume than the 42 gal in a barrel of oil, > 2.2 gal more in fact. This is called the "processing gain."

Another factor in diesel is that the federal tax on diesel is, as of now, .06 (six cents) higher per gallon than on gas.

yeah, i always figured the fractionating process yields pretty consistent amounts of each of its distillates.

thus, i would guess the price for diesel has increased because demand for it has increased.

 

[MrPickins]

Originally posted by: Knavish

I thought that a barrel of oil was a pretty homogeneous thing. Does this mean that during normal processing it is only efficient to refine 9.2 gallons of diesel out of the crude? As if they break the crude into several component parts, and only ~1/4 of the crude is useful for diesel...???

Or are those numbers representative of demand for petroleum-based products? Meaning that the demand for gasoline is 2x the demand for diesel, so they just produce more gasoline...???

Crude is a mixture of a bunch of different hydrocarbons. They use fractional distillation to separate them.

The output ratios can be adjusted somewhat by cracking some molecules.

 

[Ticky]

Originally posted by: MrPickins

Originally posted by: Knavish

I thought that a barrel of oil was a pretty homogeneous thing. Does this mean that during normal processing it is only efficient to refine 9.2 gallons of diesel out of the crude? As if they break the crude into several component parts, and only ~1/4 of the crude is useful for diesel...???

Or are those numbers representative of demand for petroleum-based products? Meaning that the demand for gasoline is 2x the demand for diesel, so they just produce more gasoline...???

Crude is a mixture of a bunch of different hydrocarbons. They use fractional distillation to separate them.

The output ratios can be adjusted somewhat by cracking some molecules.

The ammount of gasoline can be more than doubled in a barrel. Consult the wikipedia article on petroleum refining.

 

[geokilla]

Diesels aren't accepted in USA because they produced lots of black smoke and smelled horribly. However, all this has changed and diesel is actually very clea now.

Don't forget big brands like Mercedes and BMW are releasing more and more diesel engines into their model line up.

 

[MrPickins]

Originally posted by: Ticky
The ammount of gasoline can be more than doubled in a barrel. Consult the wikipedia article on petroleum refining.

That is a pretty good read. :thumbsup:

 

[waffleironhead]

Originally posted by: npoe1

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
They have a differnet gallon then us so you can;t use their gallon rating to ours.

USA should start to use the metric system for good of the world.

As soon as the rest of the world coughs up the cost of replacing all of the MPH signs in the US to KPH we will make the switch. Start coughing it up.

 

[geokilla]

Originally posted by: waffleironhead

Originally posted by: npoe1

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
They have a differnet gallon then us so you can;t use their gallon rating to ours.

USA should start to use the metric system for good of the world.

As soon as the rest of the world coughs up the cost of replacing all of the MPH signs in the US to KPH we will make the switch. Start coughing it up.

I believe the UK uses MPH as well, and they use gallons as well. Top Gear is always talking in gallons and miles.

 

[overst33r]

Originally posted by: geokilla

Originally posted by: waffleironhead

Originally posted by: npoe1

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
They have a differnet gallon then us so you can;t use their gallon rating to ours.

USA should start to use the metric system for good of the world.

As soon as the rest of the world coughs up the cost of replacing all of the MPH signs in the US to KPH we will make the switch. Start coughing it up.

I believe the UK uses MPH as well, and they use gallons as well. Top Gear is always talking in gallons and miles.

I believe they made the switch a few years ago.