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What's with this harsh overclocking obsession most h/w sites are infected with?

B

bleh1

Junior Member
I mean seriously, according to Anand's Granite Bay article, we the non-overclocking community, have somehow become a "niche" in the market. What the hell? Why does every single system review (buyer guides for instance) I read have to automatically assume that I want to overclock my machine? These days I find more and more hardware sites are configuring / reviewing CPU's, mobo's and vid cards based on how well they overclock rather than how well they perform in stock condition..

I've been trying to do some research for the last few weeks to put together a new p4 gaming system that won't be overclocked, and I've had the time of my life doing so. Every article I read about a system first and foremost goes over how much cooling and voltage my PSU will need to handle overclocking, then goes on to explain which parts work best for overclocking and how far you can push the system before it friggin' blows up. Dammit I just wanna build a normal system! PLZ just give me some basic info because im a non-overclocker, im a dweeb, a wimp... I just want to put together a basic system that runs solid. I don't need a mobo that comes with an ice-tray on it because I don't wanna OC!!

I just can't seem to find any decent help online about building a stable, non-overclocked system which is geared more towards stability than mad performance. It's probably just me, I've probably just gone nuts...sigh..sorry for wasting your time. 😕
 
Originally posted by: bleh1
I mean seriously, according to Anand's Granite Bay article, we the non-overclocking community, have somehow become a "niche" in the market. What the hell? Why does every single system review (buyer guides for instance) I read have to automatically assume that I want to overclock my machine? These days I find more and more hardware sites are configuring / reviewing CPU's, mobo's and vid cards based on how well they overclock rather than how well they perform in stock condition..

I've been trying to do some research for the last few weeks to put together a new p4 gaming system that won't be overclocked, and I've had the time of my life doing so. Every article I read about a system first and foremost goes over how much cooling and voltage my PSU will need to handle overclocking, then goes on to explain which parts work best for overclocking and how far you can push the system before it friggin' blows up. Dammit I just wanna build a normal system! PLZ just give me some basic info because im a non-overclocker, im a dweeb, a wimp... I just want to put together a basic system that runs solid. I don't need a mobo that comes with an ice-tray on it because I don't wanna OC!!

I just can't seem to find any decent help online about building a stable, non-overclocked system which is geared more towards stability than mad performance. It's probably just me, I've probably just gone nuts...sigh..sorry for wasting your time. 😕
Click to expand...

It's become so mainstream because it's like a car with a turbo.. you can tweak it and make it go faster if you want. you MAY overboost and blow it up.. but not most of the time.. many people are getting into overclocking now cause it's easy, and you get free speed from it.
my mobo (Athlon board i have) has an automatic overclocking in the BIOS, tests FSB's and then sets it automatically. works good too!! what's not to like about overclocking? 🙂
 
Originally posted by: Yield
what's not to like about overclocking? 🙂
Click to expand...

1) you sacrifice stability for a little bit of speed.
2) you break your hardware warranty
3) you risk permanent damage to your hardware
4) you suck more voltage and generate more heat
5) your cpu/mobo/whatever will die sooner than someone who hasn't OC'd


or at least the aforementioned 5 reasons are what i've heard and read.. if anyone wishes to correct me, please do..

 
Originally posted by: bleh1
Originally posted by: Yield
what's not to like about overclocking? 🙂
Click to expand...

1) you sacrifice stability for a little bit of speed.
2) you break your hardware warranty
3) you risk permanent damage to your hardware
4) you suck more voltage and generate more heat
5) your cpu/mobo/whatever will die sooner than someone who hasn't OC'd


or at least the aforementioned 5 reasons are what i've heard and read.. if anyone wishes to correct me, please do..
Click to expand...


i wish to correct you

1) you dont sacrifice stability if you know what you are doing. benchmark it, stress the hell out of it, whatever...there are ways, easy ways, to fix this
2) i dunno what to tell you about this one. if you follow guides and tutorials to overclocking the right way, this shouldnt matter. you kinda have to be a n00b to break something by overclocking it unless you just happen to be extremely unlucky.
3)same thing as above
4) ok? and this matters why? the voltage is there to use and the heat is easily dissipated (sp?). new chips are sucking less voltage as it is so heat is becoming less of a problem. p4's are also killer overclockers because they dont require more voltage some of the time, and when they do, its very little. the athlons start at a little higher voltage but still, its easy.
5)nothing will die sooner if it is overclocked and the voltage has not been increased. and, if you do increase the voltage, what is that gonna do? cause your processor to last for 6 or 7 years instead of 10? whoop de doo. by then you will be upgrading anyways
 
Dudeman,

the 5 things I said weren't meant to be interpreted as "yeah, this is always gonna happen if you overclock." that just SOME of the stuff that MIGHT happen... obviously it matters how well you overclock/stress-test/research, but like i said, all i want to do is build a normal un OC'd system... and finding any help for doing only that online has become a hassle.

btw, you DO break your warranty and you DO shorten the lifespan of your parts, and its not from 10 yrs to 6 yrs, more like from 4 years to 2 years. and sucking more voltage + requiring more cooling means more headache in addition to more risk - that was my point.

anyway i appreciate you correcting me in that i have to be a noob or really unlucky to break something while overclocking... thanks, i wasn't aware.
rolleye.gif
 
you DO break your warranty and you DO shorten the lifespan of your parts, and its not from 10 yrs to 6 yrs, more like from 4 years to 2 years.
Click to expand...

Yes, you do break your warranty (on most hardware) and often times shorten the lifespan of the parts, but not anywhere near to what you have mentioned. First of all, decent hardware doesn't die after 4 years. Second, overclocking does not shorten the lifespan of hardware to 2 years. I'm sure there are plenty of people on these boards runnings systems that have been oc'd for longer than that. As far as getting help building a non-oc'd rig, chances are if a setup is good oc'd than its good non-oc'd. Afterall, if it can maintain stability when oc'd, its going to be stable when not.
 
Originally posted by: bleh1
Dudeman,

the 5 things I said weren't meant to be interpreted as "yeah, this is always gonna happen if you overclock." that just SOME of the stuff that MIGHT happen... obviously it matters how well you overclock/stress-test/research, but like i said, all i want to do is build a normal un OC'd system... and finding any help for doing only that online has become a hassle.

btw, you DO break your warranty and you DO shorten the lifespan of your parts, and its not from 10 yrs to 6 yrs, more like from 4 years to 2 years. and sucking more voltage + requiring more cooling means more headache in addition to more risk - that was my point.

anyway i appreciate you correcting me in that i have to be a noob or really unlucky to break something while overclocking... thanks, i wasn't aware.
rolleye.gif
Click to expand...

right, so you have tried to diss me and failed miserably. i never said it DIDNT void your warranty. i just said it shouldnt matter because you shouldnt break it. and 4 years to 2 years? right...thats why my p2 400 has lived for at least 5 years now...so doesnt that automatically make your point invalid? yes, it does.

thanks though and go
rolleye.gif
at someone who cares about your 11 posts
 
Originally posted by: bleh1
Originally posted by: Yield
what's not to like about overclocking? 🙂
Click to expand...

1) you sacrifice stability for a little bit of speed.
2) you break your hardware warranty
3) you risk permanent damage to your hardware
4) you suck more voltage and generate more heat
5) your cpu/mobo/whatever will die sooner than someone who hasn't OC'd


or at least the aforementioned 5 reasons are what i've heard and read.. if anyone wishes to correct me, please do..
Click to expand...

1. But you don't lose stability (just gotta find out where it's stable) i've never owned a PC that has not been overclocked. I don't ever complain about stability cause I demand a stable system. I will have nothing else.
2. who cares, it's your word against theirs.. overclocking never breaks anything anyways. they add the O/C features for a reason.
3. see 2.
4. that's not a very big deal... overclock at default voltage with a stock cooler then... i had a 1.8 @ 2.8 with stock voltage and cooler.
5. people who are hardware freaks only have their CPU/mobo usually for no more than 2 years at most. (ive had my last setup for about 6 months) plus, how do you prove that? it takes SO long for some stuff to just DIE anyways.
 
I like having the overclocking features tested. It says a lot about the quality of the board in general. If you can push it to a much higher speed than stock, it should be that much more stable when run at stock speed.

As far as your 5 points go....BAH! My P4 1.6A @ 2.4 GHz DDR 400 has been rock stable with the stock HS/Fan for 10 months since I put it together. Every system I've had for the last several years has been overclocked. If you know what you are doing, there is no sacrifice of stability/longevity. My sister runs my old PII 333 @ 412 system. That was put together in 1996. Hasn't blown up yet!

If you aren't overclocking, all you need to do is look at is a laundry list of features and price to decide on a board. Does it have the sound/1394/USB 2.0/RAID/SATA/etc features that you want? You can just ignore the overclocking part.
 
Originally posted by: Yield
Originally posted by: bleh1

1. But you don't lose stability (just gotta find out where it's stable) i've never owned a PC that has not been overclocked. I don't ever complain about stability cause I demand a stable system. I will have nothing else.
2. who cares, it's your word against theirs.. overclocking never breaks anything anyways. they add the O/C features for a reason.
3. see 2.
4. that's not a very big deal... overclock at default voltage with a stock cooler then... i had a 1.8 @ 2.8 with stock voltage and cooler.
5. people who are hardware freaks only have their CPU/mobo usually for no more than 2 years at most. (ive had my last setup for about 6 months) plus, how do you prove that? it takes SO long for some stuff to just DIE anyways.
Click to expand...


exactly what i said number 1



Originally posted by: oldfart
I like having the overclocking features tested. It says a lot about the quality of the board in general. If you can push it to a much higher speed than stock, it should be that much more stable when run at stock speed.

As far as your 5 points go....BAH! My P4 1.6A @ 2.4 GHz DDR 400 has been rock stable with the stock HS/Fan for 10 months since I put it together. Every system I've had for the last several years has been overclocked. If you know what you are doing, there is no sacrifice of stability/longevity. My sister runs my old PII 333 @ 412 system. That was put together in 1996. Hasn't blown up yet!

If you aren't overclocking, all you need to do is look at is a laundry list of features and price to decide on a board. Does it have the sound/1394/USB 2.0/RAID/SATA/etc features that you want? You can just ignore the overclocking part.
Click to expand...

exactly what i said (plus more) number 2




good thoughts guys
Click to expand...
 
its extremely comparable to the obsession people have with tweaking cars. almost the same benefits, with almost the same pitfalls.

when people want to overclock their 2.4ghz pentium 4s, theyre doing it just for bragging rights. but it makes sense to purchase a cheap celeron or athlon, and overclock it, so you achieve acceptable performance at a fraction of the cost.
 
Overclocking is what people are interested in. Its one of the few things that can give free performance, and everyone likes free. So why do these sites stress overclocking? Why not? Anymore the overclockability of a board is just as important a feature as what kind of RAM it uses. Because its become so large a field, why not put it in reviews. I dont know where you read about new hardware, but everywhere I go seems to have just as much about other things.
 
You know, Bleh1, there are 3 reasons.

1.If you don't give OC results, OC'ers will ask. People who don't want to OC won't care. Thus, it's playing it safe.

2.With AGP/PCI lock, overclocking has become almost *too* easy.

3.If you don't OC most boards are much closer in terms of standing. It's gotten to the point where a Chinese 1 man startup can design a stable board that would satasify 99% of the users out there, due to intel's help. I mean, what happned to stability testing? Now it's almost a non issue. If you don't have stability to worry about, and you don't have OC'ing to worry about, what is there to worry about besides features and price? Even an idiot can make a decision on features and price and that takes no real skill, thus negating the purpose of a review.
 
postcount means nothing
what makes you smarter than anybody that joins the forums?
the only thing you can tell from post count is how much time you waste here.
all he wants is advice, most people do not oc.
if he doesnt want to dont force him.
he obviously has done research and he isnt going to listen to your rants.
Why do you have to be mouthy for no reason.
All the reasons he posted are correct, you can't argue it.
He is a little incorrect on the scope of the lifespan but dont bash him for it.
No more arguements on OCing, he doesn't want to!

Getting back to the original question.
If you are looking for stability, buy intel chipsets, or boards for that matter (if too expensive or rare go for tier 1 mainboards, ie. asus, msi, gigabyte)
also if you are not ocing, buy a retail cpu with 533bus and 512 cache, and a >300W ps.
i'd stay away from rambus, but thats up to you.
GB is still new, i'd wait for it to mature. you'll be fine on a i845 derivative (chipset).
any videocard by ati or nvidia is fine stability wise, all depends on pocketbook.
soundcard, go turtle beach, for a good stable card. live's have had issues in the past.
i think thats about it. if any other questions, feel free to post.
PS welcome to the forms, dont mind the boneheads.
 
Originally posted by: Stunt
postcount means nothing
what makes you smarter than anybody that joins the forums?
the only thing you can tell from post count is how much time you waste here.
all he wants is advice, most people do not oc.
if he doesnt want to dont force him.
he obviously has done research and he isnt going to listen to your rants.
Why do you have to be mouthy for no reason.
All the reasons he posted are correct, you can't argue it.
He is a little incorrect on the scope of the lifespan but dont bash him for it.
No more arguements on OCing, he doesn't want to!

Getting back to the original question.
If you are looking for stability, buy intel chipsets, or boards for that matter (if too expensive or rare go for tier 1 mainboards, ie. asus, msi, gigabyte)
also if you are not ocing, buy a retail cpu with 533bus and 512 cache, and a >300W ps.
i'd stay away from rambus, but thats up to you.
GB is still new, i'd wait for it to mature. you'll be fine on a i845 derivative (chipset).
any videocard by ati or nvidia is fine stability wise, all depends on pocketbook.
soundcard, go turtle beach, for a good stable card. live's have had issues in the past.
i think thats about it. if any other questions, feel free to post.
PS welcome to the forms, dont mind the boneheads.
Click to expand...


Stunt, thanks much for your sincere and kind response... I'll certainly look into buying a p4 chipset now. Really, it's people like you that keep forums like this useful, reputable and approachable... thanks again. 😎

-"bleh"

 
Its silly to say that an Intel system will be more stable than an AMD system. An Athlon box can be just as stable as an Intel box and vice versa.
 
Get a dell 🙂 jk

Any of the intel 845PE or GE boards would do fine. GE if you want integrated graphics and don't need anything for gaming.
Like they said if the boards stable overclocked then just think how solid it'll be non-overclocked. Some of us do it because we can get a cheaper cpu and run it at the same speed as a faster one. Often the slower pentium 4's are just the faster ones with a lower multiplier.
 
Overclocking....

Don't you ppl still remember the good old Celeron 300A ......you could get 50% more performance out of it.....making it as fast as the then top of the line Intel Pentium 2 450.MHz...very good value for money I would say..considering the price difference between the two....
As for decreased reliablity, voided warrenty, reduce part life...well..for more ppl which O/C its really too hell with it.......like the difference between 60 month product life and 18 month product life does't really matter that much......you probabaly want to change it by the time it breaks down...
 
I'm sorry, I didn't completly read your post.
If you *really* wanna build just a plain solid system.. you might as well go on the following config.

intel i845PE board
2X256 DDR 400 (For the move to the 800MHZ FSB, you wanna be able to keep your memory)

Ti4600 or Radeon9700, which ever one fits your budget. Radeon9500 pro also a strong consideration.

A good case and powersupply, antec packs some good stuff. Enermax is also good.

A Baracuda 4 if you're worried about noise, or a WDXXXXJB (Where you choose your desired capacity, anything in the WD JB/special edition line is very good.)

A decent soundcard would the the Audigy 2, Audigy, Santa cruz,Acoustic edge.. etc.. if you wanna go with the best gaming card avaliable, pick an audigy. If you want good music and a more likely to be trouble free experience, santa cruz or acoustic edge would do great. They're also cheaper.

The monitor is very important.Frankly i'm a huge fan of Sony monitors and their high end is unmatched in terms of both price (it's sky high, I know) and image quality/build quality.

As for DVD-ROMS, I like Toshiba.

For NIC's, I like Intel too. You can find plenty of PE motherboard's with intel gigabit LAN onboard and those are really nice future proof designs that will last you well until your next motherboard replacement. If youw ant an add in, i'd go either with gigabit or 10/100 if you wanna be cheap.

Hope i've helped. 🙂
 
Originally posted by: bleh1
I mean seriously, according to Anand's Granite Bay article, we the non-overclocking community, have somehow become a "niche" in the market. What the hell?
Click to expand...

Where did we say the non-overclocking community has become a niche market? Compared to non-overclockers, overclockers by far take up the smallest percentage of AnandTech readers. I don't think we've said otherwise in any of our articles.

Besides, why would you even look at our overclocking results if you don't care about them? We write a ton more about non-overclockering related aspects of a motherboard. Take a look at our Basic Features section, Motherboard Layout section, Tech Support/RMA section, and Benchmark sections. None of these are related to overclocking. Our Stress Testing section usually only deals with overclocking in a paragraph or two. So in reality, the only section we write about that deals with overclocking is the BIOS and Overclocking section.

Edit: Opps, Italics mistake.
 
Hey newbie reread the article...I didn't take it that way...I think what anandtech told us is that it performs well but the real advantage at the moment is for the overclockers. At default levels it basically just goes even withpc1066 rdram platform...no big gain and no real big reason for many to jump rdram ship or to abandon i845pe mobos that are running pc2700+ levels. However the real power was shown to happen in conjunction with raising the fsb (since the mobo had only a 1:1 ratio, so ocing memory has to be directly proportioned to ocing the fsb) and thus increasing the bandwidth above levels of pc1066 chipsets.....With a 1:1 ratio the board is pretty much just locked at dual 266fsb...
 
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Where did we say the non-overclocking community has become a niche market?
Click to expand...

evan: Taken from the article "Intel's E7205: Granite Bay Hits the Streets" - page 28 'Final Words' - first paragraph:

Firstly, Tyan's S2662 motherboard is quite good for the audience it's targeted at, which are users that simply want a fast, stable solution (and therefore no overclocking) in addition to a standard feature set, which lacks all the bells and whistles of other products. So, even though it's more popular to be a tweaker or overclocker in the DIY market nowadays, there are still a large group of DIYers that desire motherboards that are reliable at stock speeds. Therefore, it's easy to see that Tyan's S2662 motherboard fills a considerable niche very well, but that doesn't take away from the fact that this motherboard isn't for overclockers, tweakers, or users looking for an all-in-one solution.

thats just how i translated it, i probably just misunderstood you tho if thats not what u were trying to say..

duvie: youve totally missed my point.. still, i appreciate your input..

fishtankx: thanks for the suggestions.. but did you say DDR400? which intel 845pe chipset mobo supports that? just point me in the right direction if ya can chief, thanks.. 😉
 
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