What's with all the 250 watt SFF computers?

[omarh]

Its been a while (two years) since I upgraded my computer and I haven't really kept up with what's going on these days.
I came across these SFF boxes from Shuttle etc...I'm really interested in these things, but what I don't understand is how are people running P4's and Athlon's with only 250 watt power supplies? The last time I upgraded my system to an Athlon 2700 XP, I had to upgrade the power supply to a 400 watt supply to support my ATI Radeon 9800 Pro etc....
Now are power requirements suddenly going down?? what happened while I was gone?

 

[sparkyclarky]

They are generally very efficient PSUs. That, combined with the lowered power requirements of a SFF (generally 2 or less HDs, limited to 1 main gfx card, 1 PCI card, 2 DIMM slots, etc.) means less need for a monster PSU. It's not completely unlike the wattage requirements of many OEM machines.

 

[WackyDan]

I'm running a P4 2.53, 1 gig ram, a 9700 pro, a 7200rpm drive, and optical drive, as well have USB and firewore devices plugged in, and a 3 1/2" memory card reader.

On a SB51G Shuttle with a 200watt supply. Never an issue. Runs stable, and cool.

 

[RamIt]

Ditto with a sb61g2
2.4@3.4
2 sticks of ram
dvd burner
2 hard drives
4 usb devices
9800 pro overclocked to xt levels

All on the stock 200w ps.

Originally posted by: WackyDan
I'm running a P4 2.53, 1 gig ram, a 9700 pro, a 7200rpm drive, and optical drive, as well have USB and firewore devices plugged in, and a 3 1/2" memory card reader.

On a SB51G Shuttle with a 200watt supply. Never an issue. Runs stable, and cool.

 

[wisdomtooth]

Got an HTPC in a Silverstone LC02 case.

P4 3.0gHz Northwood cooled with a Zalman CNPS7000AlCu, MSI 865GM2-LS MicroATX motherboard, 512MB DDR, Radeon 9600 passively cooled vid card, PVR150 TV capture card, 250GB SATA HD, Panasonic slimline notebook slot-loading DVD drive. 240W Active PFC PSU came with the LC02.

Runs fine here as well.

 

[phisrow]

It is pretty much down to marketing lies. In markets where nobody cares about wattage numbers, you'll see that PSUs havn't gotten that much more powerful over time. Modern Dell boxes, for example, are very power hungry machines; but probably aren't labeled for more than, maybe, 300-350 watts(dual Xenon workstations and things excepted, obviously). Your stereotypical "l33t g4m3r b0x" on the other hand, probably doesn't draw all that much more power(it takes a lot of fans and neon to equal the difference in draw between a P4 and an A64) but has its "650 watt" SUPERGAMERBOY POWERELite d0dgytron+ SPitZsparken SUprEmE begging for death. Why? Because people care about wattage, so manufactureres lie to them about it. This is especially a problem with low end "gamer's" cases. Once you've built something that vaguely resembles a real case and added twenty bucks worth of neon and injection molded plastic gewgaws the only way you'll be able to sell it is to put in the finest in 10 dollar power supplies and lie blatantly.

 

[WackyDan]

Originally posted by: phisrow
It is pretty much down to marketing lies. In markets where nobody cares about wattage numbers, you'll see that PSUs havn't gotten that much more powerful over time. Modern Dell boxes, for example, are very power hungry machines; but probably aren't labeled for more than, maybe, 300-350 watts(dual Xenon workstations and things excepted, obviously). Your stereotypical "l33t g4m3r b0x" on the other hand, probably doesn't draw all that much more power(it takes a lot of fans and neon to equal the difference in draw between a P4 and an A64) but has its "650 watt" SUPERGAMERBOY POWERELite d0dgytron+ SPitZsparken SUprEmE begging for death. Why? Because people care about wattage, so manufactureres lie to them about it. This is especially a problem with low end "gamer's" cases. Once you've built something that vaguely resembles a real case and added twenty bucks worth of neon and injection molded plastic gewgaws the only way you'll be able to sell it is to put in the finest in 10 dollar power supplies and lie blatantly.

Right on. There certainly is quality and crappy PSU's out there. There certainly is a modder/over-clocker market out there. In all honesty, there are very few individuals out there that can justify the 600watt PSU in their box, much less the price paid for it.

I'll gladly pay for a PSU that is 350watt or so that runs quiet and cool, and looks like they are supposed to..... dull metal.

Marketing lesson #1.... Market to people's fears. #2 Market to people's sense of style. #3 Got Milk? One of the most taught marketing campaigns in schools today..... Marketing to the emotion of what people don't have.

 

[SKC]

agreed on the marketing views in this thread. I also like the use of the word gewgaws.

 

[omarh]

Thanks for the responses to this thread.
I found it to be very enlightening.
A few years ago, when I was concerned about how much power I was wasting by leaving my computer running 24/7, I hooked up a current meter to the power supply cord going to the wall. (had to cut open the cable so I could separate the wires and place my current meter around one of them. I wish I had saved the results of the data I collected...it would go a long way to telling me exactly how much power this machine is using. Now I don't have access to that meter anymore...but maybe I can get one again.
Thanks everyone.

 

[SKC]

I actually calculated the cost of leaving a computer on (non hibernation, to make the figure even more conservative) for a dispute with the landlord. I forget the exact numbers, but the cost was minimal. I know PG&E has an energy calculator for different appliances per month; you can dig around their site for more info.

 

[imported_Kensai]

Also, you can't fit that much stuff in SFF's, so you won't need a big fat beefy PSU.

 

[sangyup81]

not every PSU is equal Watt for Watt

unfortunately, the only way to get around this is to read alot of reviews

 

[trikster2]

Fortron SFX 200W PSU in my mATX system:

P4 2.6
1gb Ram (3 sticks)
Radeon 9800np
92mm fan for cooling
Artic VGA cooler
16x DVD burner
6-in-1 card reader (instead of floppy)
big zalman heatsink with 92mm fan.

No problems, rock solid for a year.

 

[omarh]

Is there a difference between SFF and mATX? It seems SFF, is a custom motherboard/case combo from shuttle etc...and mATX is a standard like ATX but micro?

 

[sparkyclarky]

Originally posted by: omarh
Is there a difference between SFF and mATX? It seems SFF, is a custom motherboard/case combo from shuttle etc...and mATX is a standard like ATX but micro?

SFF tends to run flex-ATX boards, while mATX is as it says a micro-ATX board. They tend to have 2-3 PCI slots vs. a SFFs single PCI slot. Additionally, they are interoperable between different cases while a SFF flex-ATX board doesn't share quite the same level of interoperability AFAIK. That said, the SFF/flex-ATX combo is smaller than a mATX/appropriately sized ATX case combo.

 

[wisdomtooth]

Originally posted by: omarh
Is there a difference between SFF and mATX? It seems SFF, is a custom motherboard/case combo from shuttle etc...and mATX is a standard like ATX but micro?

Generally speaking, SFF is more "bare minimum" than MicroATX, most of the time with enough room in the case only for 1 optical drive and 1 HD (sometimes 2), and small motherboards with a minimum number of expansion slots.

There is some overlap however; the Antec Aria case is in the same class of SFF cases like all the other "cube"-type SFFs, but can take a MicroATX mobo with 4 slots.

Then you got SFF cases like Silverstone's LC02/04, which are very compact (12" depth, like many other SFF cases) but can take a full ATX motherboard.

Just a general term..