What's up with the dubs?

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: BassBomb
A decent quality 18" wheel is usually lighter than the stock 16" ( at least for my car )

16x6.5 stock
18x7.5 is what i was looking at

This, and usually high performance tires which come with the larger wheels also tend to be significantly lighter as well.

And as has been pointed out, a quality 16" wheel will be lighter than a quality 18" wheel, while performance tires for a 16" wheel will be lighter than performance tires for an 18" wheel.

All else being equal, the 16" variation will be lighter.

Additionally, even if the 18" version were the same weight, it is still worse because it has more weight farther from the wheel's center which increases the rotational inertia and hurts acceleration and braking. The only performance reason to use larger wheels is to fit larger brakes.

ZV

Just curious what percentage of stock OEM 16" wheels you would consider to be quality and/or more lightweight than the larger factory rim options? This thread is about OEM offerings, right?

I think it'd be impossible to know with all the different OEM wheel offerings out there.

I know with the version of my car that I got, it came with BBS's that are smaller/lighter and wider than the ones that come with the regular version of the car.

 

[MovingTarget]

I HATE the so called 'donk' trend. Not only is it mechanically useless and aesthetically sickening, but it is expensive as hell. I actually drive a Caprice, and in certain areas of town, I can't even pull up to a stoplight without somebody wanting to purchase it to do that same crap to what is an otherwise good car. Sometimes, getting lower-profile tires can look good, but I don't see that very often.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Gillbot

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
There are two performance reasons for larger wheels:

1) To clear larger brakes.
2) To allow easier flow of cooling air around the brakes (this is a very small secondary concern).

Otherwise, it's strictly the current styling fad. 19 and 20-inch wheels on family sedans are, frankly, absolutely ridiculous. Of course, with the sheer monstrous size of newer cars larger wheels become a necessity to hide the fact that a company's new "sportscar" is bloated and about 1,000 pounds overweight.

ZV

You forgot less sidewall for cornering flex.

Sidewall height is completely independent of wheel diameter. You could make a 40-series tire for a 13-inch wheel just fine.

ZV

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Corn
Just curious what percentage of stock OEM 16" wheels you would consider to be quality and/or more lightweight than the larger factory rim options? This thread is about OEM offerings, right?

Thanks to current styling trends and general consumer ignorance there's no good reason for a factory to devote resources towards creating expensive lightweight forged wheels without also making those wheels larger than the stock wheel size.

Back in the 1980's, Porsche used to offer "normal" (cast alloy) wheels as well as forged Fuchs wheels. While both were the same diameter, the forged Fuchs were the upgrade, being both lighter and stronger. Today, this is not always the case for the reason I listed above. It's easy to sell consumers an "upgrade" to a larger wheel size, but most consumers aren't educated enough to understand that it would be better to upgrade to a lighter wheel of the same diameter.

As far as OEM options today, it's rare, except on some of the higher-end sportscars, for the larger diameter wheels to actually be forged (and therefore lighter). In most cases, they are nothing more than larger cast wheels; they are no stronger than the smaller cast alloys and generally heavier. As I mentioned in an earlier post, even if they are forged (higher quality and lighter weight for a given diameter), the larger diameter is likely to eliminate the weight advantage and the larger diameter will have at least minor negative effects due to inertia.

ZV

 

[thomsbrain]

Giant wheels are like cigarettes and the lottery: A highly effective way to redistribute wealth away from poor people.

 

[Gillbot]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Gillbot

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
There are two performance reasons for larger wheels:

1) To clear larger brakes.
2) To allow easier flow of cooling air around the brakes (this is a very small secondary concern).

Otherwise, it's strictly the current styling fad. 19 and 20-inch wheels on family sedans are, frankly, absolutely ridiculous. Of course, with the sheer monstrous size of newer cars larger wheels become a necessity to hide the fact that a company's new "sportscar" is bloated and about 1,000 pounds overweight.

ZV

You forgot less sidewall for cornering flex.

Sidewall height is completely independent of wheel diameter. You could make a 40-series tire for a 13-inch wheel just fine.

ZV

Not if you want to maintail OEM rollout.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Originally posted by: Gillbot

Not if you want to maintail OEM rollout.

No, but with most cars, the dealership can flash the ECU to accommodate reduced tire/wheel diameter so your odometer and speedometer won't give incorrect readings.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Gillbot

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Gillbot
You forgot less sidewall for cornering flex.

Sidewall height is completely independent of wheel diameter. You could make a 40-series tire for a 13-inch wheel just fine.

ZV

Not if you want to maintail OEM rollout.

Yes, but that's a separate issue. Essentially, that's dealing with an unrelated constraint. While rollout is part of a car's overall gearing and is important to speedometer/odometer calibration it is something that can be completely compensated for by adjusting gearing and the speedometer/odometer pickup.

ZV

 

[Arkaign]

There is a right size range for every vehicle. Sometimes manufacturers go wacky with it though. The 3000GT had giant wheel-wells, and my stock 18"ers looked great in them. I bought a used wheel+tire set from a junked 3000GT SL, and the 16" wheels looked ridiculously undersize on my car. I was planning on driving on the cheap 16" set for the winter months, and using the 18" set for summer, but I quickly resold them just for the embarrassment factor. That said, I'm not a fan of going aftermarket for larger than OEM sizes in almost all cases.

 

[Gillbot]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Gillbot

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Gillbot
You forgot less sidewall for cornering flex.

Sidewall height is completely independent of wheel diameter. You could make a 40-series tire for a 13-inch wheel just fine.

ZV

Not if you want to maintail OEM rollout.

Yes, but that's a separate issue. Essentially, that's dealing with an unrelated constraint. While rollout is part of a car's overall gearing and is important to speedometer/odometer calibration it is something that can be completely compensated for by adjusting gearing and the speedometer/odometer pickup.

ZV

There are ways around anything and everything, my point still stands. If you are out for new wheels and tires, it's easier for most to get larger wheels and lower profile tires that match the OEM rollout as opposed to getting a dealer to change the calibration of the PCM to compensate for the change.

 

[jtvang125]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
There is a right size range for every vehicle. Sometimes manufacturers go wacky with it though. The 3000GT had giant wheel-wells, and my stock 18"ers looked great in them. I bought a used wheel+tire set from a junked 3000GT SL, and the 16" wheels looked ridiculously undersize on my car. I was planning on driving on the cheap 16" set for the winter months, and using the 18" set for summer, but I quickly resold them just for the embarrassment factor. That said, I'm not a fan of going aftermarket for larger than OEM sizes in almost all cases.

Yea my car comes stock with 16" wheels and since it's a full size sedan they look way too tiny. Since it's a luxury sedan I can understand them going with 16" for maximum comfort. You can opt for the optional 17" and those look better but I think 18" is the best compromise between looks and performance for my car.

 

[fstime]

Depends on the car. Anything mid-size looks best with 18's.

For a full size sedan, 20's can look just right, look up pictures of CL65 or S65's. Those are 20's and you can barely tell because they're proportional.

This all of course depends on the car.

 

[HannibalX]

Anything over 18" on a road car is stupid.

 

[rh71]

Relative to the size of the vehicle. Minivans are tall and look really wimpy with 15" rims (not that they're supposed to look mean)... just saying.

 

[ElFenix]

mid to late 90s bmws always looked like the wheels were small.


steel wheels can (and often do) weigh less than their aluminum counterpart. why? because the cost to optimize steel wheels to use less material is borne across so many wheels. and because aesthetic elements are completely irrelevant.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Gillbot

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Yes, but that's a separate issue. Essentially, that's dealing with an unrelated constraint. While rollout is part of a car's overall gearing and is important to speedometer/odometer calibration it is something that can be completely compensated for by adjusting gearing and the speedometer/odometer pickup.

ZV

There are ways around anything and everything, my point still stands. If you are out for new wheels and tires, it's easier for most to get larger wheels and lower profile tires that match the OEM rollout as opposed to getting a dealer to change the calibration of the PCM to compensate for the change.

Within the constraints you've imposed, it absolutely stands. And you're right that most people don't want to spend the $400 on a power tuner that can re-calibrate the gauges if they're just changing the wheels and tires. :beer:

Still, that's a convenience reason for larger wheels, not strictly a performance one.

ZV

 

[sdifox]

I have to say people have to take into consideration the road condition they are going to drive in. If it is pothole valley, do not go low profile.

 

[Need4Speed]

Not everything's as black and white as some guys make it out to be ... yeah there are drawbacks for larger wheels ... there are drawbacks to smaller wheels ... it all depends on what type of driver you are, what kind of car you drive etc. Maybe if I'm driving my Focus back and forth from work, and it's just transportation I don't need 17"/18" wheels. Chances are I won't give a shit what my car looks like anyways.

On the other hand if I'm driving a moderate sport sedan and I like spirited driving, maybe it's got some power, then i won't mind a set of 18" wheels. I'm probably not too worried about rolling mass and unsprung weight .. I just wanna get to work in style. Will I care that a set of tires will cost me a bit more? doubtful ...


... too many variables to just say "big wheels suck" ... that brush is much to broad to be painting with. And sure .. there's overkill on the road these days ... some cars just look plain stupid with 20" rims ... for that matter some cars look like ass with 16" rims ... more to consider than just performance and technical matters. Many people actually still care about what a car looks like ... it's more than just transportation.

My ride came with stock 215/45-18 and they look great, I don't care that 17" will fit and that I could save a few pounds ...

 

[BassBomb]

Originally posted by: Need4Speed
Not everything's as black and white as some guys make it out to be ... yeah there are drawbacks for larger wheels ... there are drawbacks to smaller wheels ... it all depends on what type of driver you are, what kind of car you drive etc. Maybe if I'm driving my Focus back and forth from work, and it's just transportation I don't need 17"/18" wheels. Chances are I won't give a shit what my car looks like anyways.

On the other hand if I'm driving a moderate sport sedan and I like spirited driving, maybe it's got some power, then i won't mind a set of 18" wheels. I'm probably not too worried about rolling mass and unsprung weight .. I just wanna get to work in style. Will I care that a set of tires will cost me a bit more? doubtful ...


... too many variables to just say "big wheels suck" ... that brush is much to broad to be painting with. And sure .. there's overkill on the road these days ... some cars just look plain stupid with 20" rims ... for that matter some cars look like ass with 16" rims ... more to consider than just performance and technical matters. Many people actually still care about what a car looks like ... it's more than just transportation.

My ride came with stock 215/45-18 and they look great, I don't care that 17" will fit and that I could save a few pounds ...

I am guessing you aren't reading the thread. The point was not "big wheels suck" but big wheels are for looks..

 

[Need4Speed]

no i dont read .. in which case i'll still disagree cuz thats what i do ... but thanks for pointing it out

 

[NaOH]

My GTI came with 18" wheels, I love them <3

 

[IcePickFreak]

I need some bigger rims for my ride, 40's are so 2008.