Whats up with Athlon 64s and FX`s?

[BoomAM]

Hi.
Im getting some confusing info off some of you guys.
I`ve asked in several, different threads about the futureproofability of Socket 754, and im getting very mixed responces.
Some of you say that 754 is the next SocketA, and some are saying that all of AMD`s chips are migrating to 939.
So what is it?

 

[Ionizer86]

AMD's supporting 754 through next year, where as 940 is going to end.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Socket 754 will last about as long as any other current mobo standard, not very.

Socket 754 will go to around 3600-3800(rating, who knows what the clock/cache will be ) IIRC, then they will migrate to a new socket. There isn't a lengthy future for S754, although as of right now with the A64-3K+ it is quickly becoming an extremely popular solution amongst enthusiasts(it is like SocketA on that front).

 

[BoomAM]

So is it gonna be around for long?, or are AMD gonna pull an Intel, and change sockets 2-3months after introducing it?
I could do with some sort of piece of mind that`ll tell me that if i was to buy a A64 3200, then i would`nt be limited, upgrade wise.
Cos ive been saving for months for this upgrade, and if i find out that little over 4 months later that AMD has stopped supporting 754, then in my eyes, im screwed.
And i know that "theres allways something better around the corner" rubbish, but choosing a mobo socket that`ll at least allow me to upgrade to add +25% more CPU power, will allow me to keep it long term.
Can you see my problem here?

 

[ViRGE]

AMD won't quit producing S754 chips until 2005 as I understand it, so it does have some headroom, especially once the 90nm chips are rolled out(several sources claim AMD will produce at least 1 90nm S754 chip before retiring X754). I don't know if you'll get 25%, but it'll be close.

 

[Ionizer86]

I wouldn't worry about future upgradability too much. It's just not a worthwhile factor. Point being: the socket A served the first Tbirds and Durons (down to 600MHz) and up to the 3200+. Along the way, buses changed, cores changed, etc. I highly doubt a KT133 board would be running even an Athlon C 1.0. So even though the socket technically was the same, compatibility was limited with many transitions.

Buy for today, not tomorrow.

 

[Viper96720]

Looks like 754 won't be around for long
AMD's going to the 939pin with most of the lineup. Since the 939pin version the extra is since it's a dual channel memory controller.

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: Viper96720
Looks like 754 won't be around for long
AMD's going to the 939pin with most of the lineup. Since the 939pin version the extra is since it's a dual channel memory controller.

Well, from what I read in that article, they are going to be used up to at least 3700+, maybe higher. That could be two years before it dies. And of course then the bottom end market (Duron replacement) could keep going a while. By the time this happens, I will be ready for an upgrade anyway, I won't even re-use the old motherboard.

 

[Sid59]

Originally posted by: Ionizer86
I wouldn't worry about future upgradability too much. It's just not a worthwhile factor. Point being: the socket A served the first Tbirds and Durons (down to 600MHz) and up to the 3200+. Along the way, buses changed, cores changed, etc. I highly doubt a KT133 board would be running even an Athlon C 1.0. So even though the socket technically was the same, compatibility was limited with many transitions.

Buy for today, not tomorrow.

gotta bump that answer. i totally agree with the bus and core changes but the socket still remained solid. there isn't a single amd compatible board that was compatible with from the early tbirds up to the current 400FSB athlons. off hand there was kt133, 266, 333, 400, 600, nforce1, nforce2 .. and so on.

i think the nforce2 just wrapped everyting up for the later athlons. the nforce2s came in swooped up the compatibility and ate it. solid job.


im waiting for the pin 393 and see what the competition is then. that's prolly gonna be my next upgrade.

 

[JustAnAverageGuy]

393?

939 you mean?

 

[BoomAM]

Originally posted by: Ionizer86
I highly doubt a KT133 board would be running even an Athlon C 1.0.

My Abit KT7A-RAID (KT133A) is doing a XP1800 fine.

Hmm.
I think i`ll take the stance of "Sod It!, im buying next week whatever happens".
Do we know much about the release dates of the nForce3 250? I can`nt seem to find any info on the dates. Even rough estimates like "mid feb" would help.

 

[Ionizer86]

133A was a much nicer chipset since it supported the 133 bus unlike the original KT133. It was actually pretty fast too, especially considering how much DDR cost back then

 

[MDE]

Originally posted by: BoomAM

Originally posted by: Ionizer86
I highly doubt a KT133 board would be running even an Athlon C 1.0.

My Abit KT7A-RAID (KT133A) is doing a XP1800 fine.

Hmm.
I think i`ll take the stance of "Sod It!, im buying next week whatever happens".
Do we know much about the release dates of the nForce3 250? I can't seem to find any info on the dates. Even rough estimates like "mid feb" would help.

I think it'll come around early to mid February .

 

[sandorski]

My understanding is that Athlon 64 will be going to Socket 939, but Socket 754 will live on. The difference will be that future Socket 754 processors will be 32bit only. If true, it may have a long life ahead of it.

 

[BoomAM]

Originally posted by: Ionizer86
133A was a much nicer chipset since it supported the 133 bus unlike the original KT133. It was actually pretty fast too, especially considering how much DDR cost back then

I know.
Im still using one. At the moment.
The one i`ve got must have been a good specimen, as all the compatibilites with various hardware hasnt happened.
Its supposed to have cold boot problems with XP processors, mine doesnt. Its also ment to have cold boot problems with my 9700pro, and it doesnt. its supposed to be unstable with my Audigy, and it aint. Its supposed to have power problems with my ADSL modem, but it doesnt either. Cracking board. I`d be suprised if i found another board like it.

 

[BoomAM]

Originally posted by: sandorski
My understanding is that Athlon 64 will be going to Socket 939, but Socket 754 will live on. The difference will be that future Socket 754 processors will be 32bit only. If true, it may have a long life ahead of it.

I read that 754 would be for new editions of the XPs and Durons, and for Single Channel Athlon64s. Dual Channel Athlon64s and FX`s would be 939.
I hoping that thats true.

 

[andreasl]

Originally posted by: BoomAM

Originally posted by: sandorski
My understanding is that Athlon 64 will be going to Socket 939, but Socket 754 will live on. The difference will be that future Socket 754 processors will be 32bit only. If true, it may have a long life ahead of it.

I read that 754 would be for new editions of the XPs and Durons, and for Single Channel Athlon64s. Dual Channel Athlon64s and FX`s would be 939.
I hoping that thats true.

I think we can say for certain that AMD will switch all A64's over to Socket 939. The question is just how long the transition period will be. They might keep both sockets alive all through this year. Or they cut short socket 754 after the now imminent 3400+ release.

I guess it depends how often you upgrade your CPU. If you buy an A64 3000+ today, would you be content with only being able to upgrade to a 3400+ or maybe 3700+ (2.4GHz) ? I guess some people would, but personally I would hope for a little longer life than that. It's possible that you could upgrade to a new CPU in the future on these motherboards, but it might only come with 256KB L2 and 64-bit disabled.

 

[Viper96720]

The extra 185 pins of the 939pin is for the dual channel memory controller of the cpu. Dual channel A64 and FX's would be 939. But then wouldn't A64 and FX be the same thing?
Unless 64 has less cache than FX.

 

[BoomAM]

Originally posted by: Viper96720
The extra 185 pins of the 939pin is for the dual channel memory controller of the cpu. Dual channel A64 and FX's would be 939. But then wouldn't A64 and FX be the same thing?
Unless 64 has less cache than FX.

You`ve gotta point there.
And that augments my suggestion that a Dual Channel "Gamers Edition" of the A64, which was rumored that AMD were investigating, would be 939, and then the Single Channel version, would remain 754, for average joe, and intergraters. Which if so, would be a good decision on AMDs part (not to mention that it give me more upgrade options!)

 

[NightCrawler]

I bet AMD doesn't even know how long 754 will last, they will play the cost to benefit ratio. I Imagine 754 and 939 will live together for a long time.

PS: Like someone already said the socket isn't as important as all the chipset changes that will occur with 754 !

 

[BoomAM]

Originally posted by: NightCrawler
Like someone already said the socket isn't as important as all the chipset changes that will occur with 754 !

I know that.
Its just that AMD probably didnt plan on the XPs working on a 1st Gen SocketA mobo, but it did, so longer life in 754 would probably mean some newer, faster 754 processors that`d work on a nForce3 or K8T800.

 

[NightCrawler]

Originally posted by: BoomAM

Originally posted by: NightCrawler
Like someone already said the socket isn't as important as all the chipset changes that will occur with 754 !

I know that.
Its just that AMD probably didnt plan on the XPs working on a 1st Gen SocketA mobo, but it did, so longer life in 754 would probably mean some newer, faster 754 processors that`d work on a nForce3 or K8T800.

In 12 months your state of the art computer is gonna be outdated no matter when you buy, gotta love the built in obselence in the market today.

 

[BoomAM]

Originally posted by: NightCrawler

Originally posted by: BoomAM

Originally posted by: NightCrawler
Like someone already said the socket isn't as important as all the chipset changes that will occur with 754 !

I know that.
Its just that AMD probably didnt plan on the XPs working on a 1st Gen SocketA mobo, but it did, so longer life in 754 would probably mean some newer, faster 754 processors that`d work on a nForce3 or K8T800.

In 12 months your state of the art computer is gonna be outdated no matter when you buy, gotta love the built in obselence in the market today.

Most things go out of date within months.
What i`m getting at, is even if a 3200 goes out of date in 6 months, then at least the mobo would allow me to upgrade to the latest, or near latest thing. Asuming that 754 stays for a while.

 

[BenSkywalker]

If I were you I would just upgrade to the A643000+ and save the other $200 for a new mobo if it is that much of a concern(in all honesty, I don't think you can rationally justify the A643200+ given how closely it performs to the 3K but is double the price).

 

[aka1nas]

Originally posted by: BoomAM

You`ve gotta point there.
And that augments my suggestion that a Dual Channel "Gamers Edition" of the A64, which was rumored that AMD were investigating, would be 939, and then the Single Channel version, would remain 754, for average joe, and intergraters. Which if so, would be a good decision on AMDs part (not to mention that it give me more upgrade options!)

A dual channel Gamers Edition Athlon64 on socket 939 would be the AthlonFX.