• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

What's up Putin's sleeves?

carage

Senior member
Does anyone know what is Putin talking about and what is his motive?

Is he trying to tell US that he is still a force to be reckoned with?
Or is he telling the terrorists to keep quiet?
Or telling China that he is not a dummy to be bullied with China's new economic might?

Perhaps he is killing our NMD before it actually deploys?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/...ussia.putin/index.html
Russia 'tests new missile systems'
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 Posted: 8:20 PM EST (0120 GMT)

MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- Russian President Vladimir Putin announced Wednesday that his country's armed forces will soon have access to advanced nuclear missile systems unavailable in any other country.

"We are conducting research and are testing the most up-to-date nuclear missile systems, which, I'm sure, will be supplied to the armed forces in the near future," Putin told a conference of high-ranking military officials, according to a translation from Russia's Interfax News Agency.

"What is even more important, these systems will have no analogues in the other nuclear powers during the next few years."

The Bush administration said the developments in Russia's nuclear program are consistent with the Moscow Treaty, signed between President Bush and Putin in May 2002.

"We are confident that Russia's plans are not threatening and are consistent with its obligations, and I think are indicative of a new strategic relationship between the United States and Russia that is focused on reducing threats and increasing confidence," deputy State Department spokesman Adam Ereli told reporters.

The treaty, which required both sides to reduce their deployed strategic nuclear warheads to between 1,700 and 2,200 by 2012, was designed to establish a new strategic relationship between the two nations based on partnership and cooperation.

But State Department officials told CNN on condition of anonymity that although they don't think Putin's comments are anything to worry about, they will be seeking further clarification from the Russians about the specific modernizations in Moscow's program.

"As far as we can tell there is nothing to be concerned about, but Putin did not give a lot of detail," one official said. "We are trying to figure out what he meant. Did he mean what we think he means or is this something that is not covered by the treaty?"

Another official said that Putin's comments could be viewed as an attempt to impress his military leaders with assurances that Russia's weapons programs are competitive.

"This may well have been his way of talking to his defense folks," this official said. "But we are trying to find out more."

President Bush will meet with Putin in Chile later this week at a summit of Asian Pacific Economic Cooperation, where he is expected to discuss the matter, this official said.

CNN State Department Producer Elise Labott contributed to this report.
__________________
 
kind of off-topic, but does anyone have the budget for the Russian military from 2000-2004? Total amount $ of arms sold? I've asked this before and I've searched google, but Russia is never on any list.
 
If your asking about their arms exports, put them between the US and whoever comes next and that should be a decent estimate.

military budget was probably around50 billion annually. Comparable to any of the other major military powers, ie china, france, or england, [l]http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2067rank.html[/l]
 
I think this is a repost...

Does anyone know what is Putin talking about and what is his motive?

Is he trying to tell US that he is still a force to be reckoned with?
Or is he telling the terrorists to keep quiet?
Or telling China that he is not a dummy to be bullied with China's new economic might?

Perhaps he is killing our NMD before it actually deploys?

I think its neither of the ones you listed. The Message is for the Russian people, trying to play to their Nationalist sentiments, saying Russia is still a great power.

If you missed it, a while back Putin tried to show off, remind the Russian people of their power by visiting the military while they held exercises. He was on a submarine that was supposed to test fire a nuclear missile. That test fire failed and they tried to cover it up. When they finally got it to fire the next day, the missile malfunctioned and they had to blow it up. It was very embarrassing for Putin. It raised questions of Russia's nuclear missile inventory and questions about its power. This new missile design is to try to address that embarrassment. And of course since its a new missile it has to be the best, so they say its supposedly the best one out there. This is all a show for the Russian people.

BTW the US missile defense system was not designed to counter a Russian missile attack, just too many missiles. It was designed to intercept maybe a dozen or so. So this new missile isn't a stab at our missile defense system.
 
Still wondering what type of new nuclear missile system Russia is developing, and why is this something that no other country will posess in the next few years?
 
Originally posted by: carage
Still wondering what type of new nuclear missile system Russia is developing, and why is this something that no other country will posess in the next few years?

i think Russia's just blowing smoke. its something that no other country will possess in the next few years because no one will know what it is because a. its a secret or b. it doesn't exist.
 
Originally posted by: maddogchen
Originally posted by: carage
Still wondering what type of new nuclear missile system Russia is developing, and why is this something that no other country will posess in the next few years?

i think Russia's just blowing smoke. its something that no other country will possess in the next few years because no one will know what it is because a. its a secret or b. it doesn't exist.

You forgot c. if it does exist, it probably won't work right anyway so no one cares.
 
Putin wants change for Russia. He wants Russia to be a great military power again. Their military is aging and they are doing everything they can to upgrade their tanks, aircraft, missles. Russia is short on cash and that is why they sell arms to whoever can buy.

They still have 1 aircraft carrier that is rusting. I wonder if they are building another one.
 
Originally posted by: Aimster
Putin wants change for Russia. He wants Russia to be a great military power again. Their military is aging and they are doing everything they can to upgrade their tanks, aircraft, missles. Russia is short on cash and that is why they sell arms to whoever can buy.

They still have 1 aircraft carrier that is rusting. I wonder if they are building another one.

They are not exactly selling arms to whoever can buy. Taiwan is willing to pay top dollar but Russia still says no.
 
Originally posted by: carage
Originally posted by: Aimster
Putin wants change for Russia. He wants Russia to be a great military power again. Their military is aging and they are doing everything they can to upgrade their tanks, aircraft, missles. Russia is short on cash and that is why they sell arms to whoever can buy.

They still have 1 aircraft carrier that is rusting. I wonder if they are building another one.

They are not exactly selling arms to whoever can buy. Taiwan is willing to pay top dollar but Russia still says no.

Russia + China > Russia + Taiwan.
 
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: carage
Originally posted by: Aimster
Putin wants change for Russia. He wants Russia to be a great military power again. Their military is aging and they are doing everything they can to upgrade their tanks, aircraft, missles. Russia is short on cash and that is why they sell arms to whoever can buy.

They still have 1 aircraft carrier that is rusting. I wonder if they are building another one.

They are not exactly selling arms to whoever can buy. Taiwan is willing to pay top dollar but Russia still says no.

Russia + China > Russia + Taiwan.

Bingo.

Also Russia has previously sold missiles to China which are designed to sink modern ships with modern anti missile systems including Aircraft Carries. It does this by doing a random zig/zag pattern just within the range of anti missile systems giving a far greater chance for impact.

The carrier for these missiles are missile frigates, which came with the sale.

I wouldn't run out and panic. The location of a carrier battlegroup is top secret and the chance of China or anyone else finding one is highly unlikely outside of port.

However that's probably why China is so high and mighty about its space program. If they can develop satelites designed to search for carrier groups it could become a "check" in the chessboard. However that could be 50 years off and by then there could be stealth carrier groups invisable to radar and virtually impossible to spot by satelite.

If you think that's a joke you should see the plans for such ships that have been on the drawing board for over a decade and are currently slated to replace the current carrier fleet in the next 25 years.

It just doesn't end. heh
 
Originally posted by: Aelius
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: carage
Originally posted by: Aimster
Putin wants change for Russia. He wants Russia to be a great military power again. Their military is aging and they are doing everything they can to upgrade their tanks, aircraft, missles. Russia is short on cash and that is why they sell arms to whoever can buy.

They still have 1 aircraft carrier that is rusting. I wonder if they are building another one.

They are not exactly selling arms to whoever can buy. Taiwan is willing to pay top dollar but Russia still says no.

Russia + China > Russia + Taiwan.

Bingo.

Also Russia has previously sold missiles to China which are designed to sink modern ships with modern anti missile systems including Aircraft Carries. It does this by doing a random zig/zag pattern just within the range of anti missile systems giving a far greater chance for impact.

The carrier for these missiles are missile frigates, which came with the sale.

I wouldn't run out and panic. The location of a carrier battlegroup is top secret and the chance of China or anyone else finding one is highly unlikely outside of port.

However that's probably why China is so high and mighty about its space program. If they can develop satelites designed to search for carrier groups it could become a "check" in the chessboard. However that could be 50 years off and by then there could be stealth carrier groups invisable to radar and virtually impossible to spot by satelite.

If you think that's a joke you should see the plans for such ships that have been on the drawing board for over a decade and are currently slated to replace the current carrier fleet in the next 25 years.

It just doesn't end. heh

The Trimaran fleet design looks really interesting, but looks like it ain't going anywhere in the foreseeable future. I want that rail gun!

 
It's quite likely that Putin said this more for internal consumption. However, their Topol-M mobile ICBMs have maneuvering warheads and our missile defence can't really do anything agains them (and probably won't be able to for the next 10-20 years). The Russians have always planned for asymmetric response to the arms race as they can't really compete with the 400 billion or so per year of US defence budget.
 
How do you keep the location of a carrier group secret?
A carrier isn't exactly small and I would be very surprised if a China could not locate one using their network of spy satellites.

About the toys: Don't forget that programs like this can also be used as an "excuse" to direct funding to military research. No money means that many researchers and engineers will leave; most of them will just go to the civilian sector but some might be tempted to bring their knowledge elsewhere.
 
Originally posted by: f95toli
How do you keep the location of a carrier group secret?
A carrier isn't exactly small and I would be very surprised if a China could not locate one using their network of spy satellites.
Actually this is not really true at all. Now when a carrier is stationary at a port its relatively easy to have a satelite take a somewhat zoomed in photo at various likely ports it would be at, and then someone can look at the photo and see the carrier, but when the carrier is at sea and moving its not so easy at all.

The thing is the ocean is absolutely huge, and even if you know the starting point for the carrier, at over 30 knots it can get somewhere else in a hurry. As big as a carrier may be, you still need to have a photo zoom in considerably in order to detect it. Someone then has to go through all the photos and look for something like a carrier. You also need to process all the photos rather quickly because knowing that the carrier was at a specificly spot a week ago usually doesn't do a military all that much good, at least on a tactical level. A closely related problem is that if you zoom in just enough to see whether there is a carrier sized object in the photo, you can't tell if its actually a carrier. Large transports and tankers can be as large or larger than carriers are. Taking another photo of the suspect ship isn't easy as its almost certainly going to have moved considerably before you can have the satellite make another pass.Finally you have the issue that clouds may be concealing the carrier even if you do happen to be taking a photo in exactly the right point. This means conventional spy photo satellites are virtually worthless in detecting a carrier at sea.

While the Russians experimented with other types of satellites that might be capable of detecting carrier groups, most of the evidence suggests they were not really sucessful. The Chinese technology is going to still be far behind in this area regardless. A major advantage of carriers remains the enemy's difficulty in finding them while they are deployed and moving.
 
Originally posted by: Aimster
Putin wants change for Russia. He wants Russia to be a great military power again. Their military is aging and they are doing everything they can to upgrade their tanks, aircraft, missles. Russia is short on cash and that is why they sell arms to whoever can buy.

They still have 1 aircraft carrier that is rusting. I wonder if they are building another one.

well they recently gave away their carrier for free. I believe its the Gorshkov
 
Once again, the conservatives respond with news like this with a "They wouldn't dare" and a "They couldn't if they wanted to". In fact, when NK was in the news they said the same thing. Imagine that.

Anyway, don't expect Putin to abide by any recent 'peaceful' agreements. Its not like Bush is doing any better.
 
Originally posted by: tallest1
Once again, the conservatives respond with news like this with a "They wouldn't dare" and a "They couldn't if they wanted to". In fact, when NK was in the news they said the same thing. Imagine that.

Anyway, don't expect Putin to abide by any recent 'peaceful' agreements. Its not like Bush is doing any better.

Exactly, it's not as if the U.S. has any moral authority to demand governments play by the rules since we are currently a renegade nation. Russia should be a huge concern for the U.S., as should China and N.K. and one or all is probably gonna kick our ass eventually. Meanwhile, the U.S. military is having it's ass kicked by guys wearing casual slacks with sneakers. Now Bush tells us we will have to be there a very long, long time (yeah, duh, really? Ya think?).
 
Back
Top