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Whats to stop a malicious meter reader?

F

futurefields

Diamond Member
"i know the ppl who live in this house i dont like them i am gonna write down they are using 100% more kw than they really are"
 
um because the majority of meters are now smart meters.

If you still have a meter reader, you can easily read the KWHs yourself.
 
Oh boy! Then the resident would have to pay double their normal bill one month...then have a zero bill the next month once they find out the mistake.
Yeah, the meter reader would have to be an absolute moron to try to something like that.
 
futurefields said:
"i know the ppl who live in this house i dont like them i am gonna write down they are using 100% more kw than they really are"
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Well having had that job before, you need to look at your bill and notice how it is calculated. Sure they could get you one month, or as long as they keep reading the route your house is on, but as soon as a correct reading is obtained it evens out. Mostly anyway, and typically the system would kick out a re-read if the usage is out of the expected range.

So say start from zero (new meter) -

month 1 - reading is 1000, billed for 1000 kwh
month 2 - reading is 2000, billed for 1000 kwh (difference from last)
and so on.

So if the guy adds usage (or reads it wrong)

month 1 - actual reading 1000, he puts 2000, you get billed for 2000
month 2 - actual reading 2000, he either adds 1k again, for a reading of 3000, and bill of 1000 (your actual usage), or he reads it correctly, as 2000, giving you a bill for 0.

See what I mean? Also, aren't most places going to smart meters with remote reading these days, making this a non-issue?
 
I got billed for a whole bunch of months of usage in one month for natural gas. Turns out the meter reader read the thing wrong. The meter had an analogue gauge and the clear cover was a bit dirty in one spot, so s/he read a 9 instead of a 0 or something like that for one of the numbers.

Or maybe the meter reader just hated me, and decided to give me a shock and emptied out bank account for a month. 😉

Actually I didn't even have to pay it. I called the gas company with the right reading and they just asked me to pay a much smaller amount, more in line with previous usage.
 
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A nice gift given around the holidays will usually ensure correct readings throughout the year. Meter readers like cash. A couple of nice crisp hundo's should do the trick.
 
Raizinman said:
Anyone know what frequency these smart meters use to transmit?
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Frequencies: 902-928 MHz

Won't happen in my place, it has a smart meter.

ComEd%20meter.JPG

http://www.silverspringnet.com/pdfs/SilverSpring-Datasheet-Communications-Modules.pdf
 
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IronWing said:
What's to stop a malicious meter reader?

The Second Amendment.
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Yeah I was questioned a few times on what I was doing in a person's yard by a guy with a gun, sometimes held behind his back. Respectfully letting them know what I was doing was all that was necessary. Most people knew the meter guy would be by at a certain time of the month, and often would leave a gate open, or directions on the account of how they wished us to enter the property. It wasn't everyone however.
 
BxgJ said:
Well having had that job before, you need to look at your bill and notice how it is calculated. Sure they could get you one month, or as long as they keep reading the route your house is on, but as soon as a correct reading is obtained it evens out. Mostly anyway, and typically the system would kick out a re-read if the usage is out of the expected range.

So say start from zero (new meter) -

month 1 - reading is 1000, billed for 1000 kwh
month 2 - reading is 2000, billed for 1000 kwh (difference from last)
and so on.

So if the guy adds usage (or reads it wrong)

month 1 - actual reading 1000, he puts 2000, you get billed for 2000
month 2 - actual reading 2000, he either adds 1k again, for a reading of 3000, and bill of 1000 (your actual usage), or he reads it correctly, as 2000, giving you a bill for 0.

See what I mean? Also, aren't most places going to smart meters with remote reading these days, making this a non-issue?
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We have service tiers with escalating cost/KW as usage increases so a truly devious meter reader could screw over a customer I suppose. Seems far fetched though. I'm much more paranoid about fast food workers who leave an inch at the top of the drink cup.
 
if it is a suburban sprawl situation and they haven't switched to smart meters, chances are they are only actually reading the meter once every 2 months. with so many meters to check some utilities go off what you used before and just assume you will use the same next month. they skip checking next month so billing is more or less an averaging of expected use. when they do check 2 months later they then do the necessary corrections.

those errors in billing extrapolation are the main reason for switching to smart meters, it gets the power company its correct money due without the overbilling errors and underbilling shortfalls that end up costing them.
 
They would have to keep track of the readings that they said, otherwise next time they give the real readings, it would probably flag as a mistake that was done at some point.

For gas I sometimes submit my own readings since the meter is in a hard to get location in winter. Has not been a problem this year though, we still don't even have snow. Weirdest thing ever.
 
IronWing said:
We have service tiers with escalating cost/KW as usage increases so a truly devious meter reader could screw over a customer I suppose. Seems far fetched though. I'm much more paranoid about fast food workers who leave an inch at the top of the drink cup.
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Yeah that's why I put the 'mostly' qualifier in there. I was often the guy who got the re-reads, when the system kicked out the account for high/low usage but before it was billed. Typically it was a misread of the 4th dial from the right (on electric meters), the 1k dial. Usually not 'rolled back' so 1 digit high.

I'm not aware of any malicious attempts to mess with people's bills, if there was an error it was just the guy getting in a hurry. As far as I know.
 
Yeah I know that smart readers are showing up more and more increasingly. I haven't seen a meter reader in my area in about 2 years.
 
For those who have a smart meter for gas too, how do those work, like how are they powered? I've always had a meter reader come by to read the gas one. It has gauges on it that move as it works mechanically based on how much gas is flowing through.

The hydro meter is smart though, it updates through some kind of wireless network I presume. I can check my electricity usage online and it's somewhat real time. (couple hours delay maybe)
 
Fudging an electrical meter is a thing of the past.

I know my father had friends in the power area and used to run it backwards now and then, but he has passed away so he doesn't care I imagine.

Used to be a thing, most utility companies have upgraded past that I imagine.
 
MongGrel said:
Fudging an electrical meter is a thing of the past.

I know my father had friends in the power area and used to run it backwards now and then, but he has passed away so he doesn't care I imagine.

Used to be a thing, most utility companies have upgraded past that I imagine.
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You could use so much power that it just rolls over, I suppose. 😀 You'd have to use at least 99,999kwh in a month though. That's a constant load of 139kw or 560 amps at 240v if I'm calculating that right. Good news is, you'd save in gas too, that's enough heat to heat the whole house in winter. You'll want to bypass the fuses though and the outside wiring drop might get a little hot. 😱
 
Red Squirrel said:
You could use so much power that it just rolls over, I suppose. 😀 You'd have to use at least 99,999kwh in a month though. That's a constant load of 139kw or 560 amps at 240v if I'm calculating that right. Good news is, you'd save in gas too, that's enough heat to heat the whole house in winter. You'll want to bypass the fuses though and the outside wiring drop might get a little hot. 😱
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On the old meter he had decades ago, if the tag was off you could reverse it and it would read backwards.

You didn't have to go over, the usage would just take time off it.

Run it about a week that way, would cut your bill in half.

That was long ago though.
 
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Red Squirrel said:
For those who have a smart meter for gas too, how do those work, like how are they powered? I've always had a meter reader come by to read the gas one. It has gauges on it that move as it works mechanically based on how much gas is flowing through.

The hydro meter is smart though, it updates through some kind of wireless network I presume. I can check my electricity usage online and it's somewhat real time. (couple hours delay maybe)
Click to expand...

Battery. Some are just like the older radio read meters. The reader will drive around in a van, picking up most readings as they drives through an area, then go back for any that didn't pick up.
 
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