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What's the use of happiness?

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Originally posted by: JLGatsby
Originally posted by: Poulsonator
FYI, my wife and I make a great living here in Orlando. Don't kid yourself...I'm not turning down money. We do just fine. I'm just saying it's easy to obtain and, unless it's all you have, it shouldn't be the most important thing in your life.

Please don't say it's easy to obtain if you have to go to work everyday.

You're going to have to explain that one to me.

How is it hard getting up and sitting in front of a computer for a few hours to earn money? How is it hard to flip burgers to earn money? How is it hard to play a sport to earn money? I mean, sure, I could leech off of the government and collect a welfare check, but that's hardly a challenge, right?
 
Originally posted by: Poulsonator
You're going to have to explain that one to me.

How is it hard getting up and sitting in front of a computer for a few hours to earn money? How is it hard to flip burgers to earn money? How is it hard to play a sport to earn money? I mean, sure, I could leech off of the government and collect a welfare check, but that's hardly a challenge, right?

Yeah, you could say it's easy to make a "little bit" of money.

What I'm saying is that if money is "so easy" to get, that would imply you can easy get access to as much money as you want, and if that were true, you wouldn't be going to work everyday because you would be retired and wealthy.

Don't say money is easy to get unless you've got a lot of it.

Yeah, one dollar is "easy to get." But one million is not.

That would be comparable to finding one dollar on the street and then saying "I FIND MONEY ON THE STREET ALL THE TIME, AS MUCH AS I WANT, IT'S SOOOO EASY!!!"
 
Ahh, I see now. We never made specifics. To retire at 30 (or 40, or 50, etc.) a multi-millionaire...yes, that takes a lot of hard work and a lot of luck. To make money, well, just find a job. I understand the difference.

Any job can lead to a comfortable life later on. I know people who started as the most basic of basics at a fast-food joint/movie rental place/etc., and now own one (or more) franchises. It just all depends on your drive (as you mentioned above), your desire and your goals.

My goal? Live a comfortable life. I don't need millions; I just need a roof, my wife, my cats and my guitar. Four heart surgeries (and a fifth scheduled for next week) will do that to you. Money? Pssshhh...easy.
 
Originally posted by: Jittos
Originally posted by: Syringer
It won't get you money 😕


I think the whole point of making money is to make you happy. But I guess ppl forget it somewhere along the way.

And no, I'm not happy.

Why is it that you think the whole point of making money is to make you happy?

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
Happiness is easier. Most people obtain it by simply lowering their standards or lying to themselves about how their life is going.

If someone is *truly* happy by lowering their standards or lying to themselves... then they deserve the misery that I think will always accompany them.

Originally posted by: Schadenfreude
Going back to the topic of happiness, there's so many varieties that it'd be hard to pigeonhole one as all-bearing: the immediate gratification of material goods isn't the same as the rush of embracing someone in the throes of passion, nor are they the same as simply being content with one's life.

Therein lies the difference between many people: I don't think that some people are able to distinguish the difference between the happiness that hobbies bring them, the happiness that they get by owning material goods, the happiness that they have within themselves, and the happiness that their family or partner brings them. All of the above are critical to *everyone's* life... the difference is the weight that each of the various happinesses carry.

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
Originally posted by: Poulsonator
You're going to have to explain that one to me.

How is it hard getting up and sitting in front of a computer for a few hours to earn money? How is it hard to flip burgers to earn money? How is it hard to play a sport to earn money? I mean, sure, I could leech off of the government and collect a welfare check, but that's hardly a challenge, right?

Yeah, you could say it's easy to make a "little bit" of money.

What I'm saying is that if money is "so easy" to get, that would imply you can easy get access to as much money as you want, and if that were true, you wouldn't be going to work everyday because you would be retired and wealthy.

Don't say money is easy to get unless you've got a lot of it.

Yeah, one dollar is "easy to get." But one million is not.

That would be comparable to finding one dollar on the street and then saying "I FIND MONEY ON THE STREET ALL THE TIME, AS MUCH AS I WANT, IT'S SOOOO EASY!!!"

No, that's not what he's saying. He said that money is easy to get, and it is. He didn't qualify it; you are. Your values are so different that neither of you can probably even dream about understanding the other's drive.

I personally couldn't care less about money. Yes, I need it to survive. Yes, it's easier to survive on more money. Yes, you can buy "nicer" things when you have more money. No, I don't think that any of that matters in the grand scheme of things. The only thing that matters to me about life is what I think about myself, the quality of my friendships and relationships, and my family. There are a lot of hobbies or activities that might make me happy for a short period of time, but they're just trivial time-wasters for the most part.
 
Anyhow, I guess I'll rant some more since I've got time/bored - the question, whether it be asked by some snot-nosed kid trying to be "sophisticated" or a passing thought of a middle-aged parent, is the central question of "ethics" - what is happiness, how can I attain said happiness, and does the welfare of others play into my view?

Of course, anyone with half a mind will tell you this ties very much into ontological quandry, but ethics is a heavy subject by itself, I don't really care to go into ontology (not that I'm any good at it), and I'm rambling so it doesn't matter anyhow.

Of course, on a pragmatic level, one could argue that ethics is a very individualistic subject; that is, the parameters are set by their own person; it is in some ways true and false. We lead our own lives (for the sake of argument let's say that this is true - this is where a lot of metaphysical arguments come up) but yet we choose to live in society. And as stated prior, people have different ranges of what is acceptable in their behavior, but many of them overlap, like, again, the "thou shalt not kill" example.

So what ethics does is not set up a specific list of rules, but rather a set of parameters, a guideline to follow: for example, you shouldn't kill people, but who gives a fvck if you decide to flip someone off while driving?

Let's use a different topic that's relevant to a lot, if not all, of ATOT - sex. I'm not saying that all of you have had sex, it deosn't matter - you have a natural drive to do so; but, would it be fair to go out in the streets and rape a poor girl? Of course not! On the other hand, would it be fair to condemn others for involving themselves in activites in which you disagree with? Again, of course not.
In that situation, the rules may not be stated explicitly, but most people have the idea: as long as the involved party are responsible adults who understand all that is implied and give consent to said activity, who are we to condemn? It is the best of both worlds, just laid out in a skeletal form. Kant was the one that brought up the idea - to treat them as ends in themselves, as "autonomous rational beings".

So, how to reflect that to our daily lives? Same idea - treat everyone else as "rational autonomous beings" - who gives a fvck what you do to pursue your dreams, given that it does not harm an 'innocent"? Of course the problems of economics come up - limited supply, unlimited want: how would we pursue this?

Unfortunately, we can't. Not everyone can acheive all that we want.

But would we ultimately want to? I would say that humans are complex, simultaneously being pack-minded yet incredibly competetive. For many, the means outweight the ends - your life loses meaning if you've acheived all that you set out for: you see this mainly in people that have retired - they have lost their meaning, their drive in life. What next? Even if your goal was to accumulate money, nothing else; after a certain amount, you hit a saturation point - on a pragmatic level, would it really matter to Anand Sempai that his annual salary pales in comparison to Bill Gates other than a point of pride?

To focus on the subject of drive, it is exactly what Simon Blackburn has said in Lust that carries weight here: Lust, or any of the other six '"sins" would be considered so only if in excess.

If controlled, it would be the drive to better yourself.

My point? Absolutely nothing. I don't really feel like writing a thesis online, nor do I suspect anyone will actually read this rambling rant of mine anyways. 😉
 
Are you looking for emo lyrics or something? Jeez

Happiness is just around so you can feel even worse when you're without it.

There, 'happy' now? I can't help but feel that in a few days the OP will spawn YAGT or some such.
 
Originally posted by: GeekDrew
I personally couldn't care less about money. Yes, I need it to survive. Yes, it's easier to survive on more money. Yes, you can buy "nicer" things when you have more money. No, I don't think that any of that matters in the grand scheme of things. The only thing that matters to me about life is what I think about myself, the quality of my friendships and relationships, and my family. There are a lot of hobbies or activities that might make me happy for a short period of time, but they're just trivial time-wasters for the most part.

That's what I mean when I say people lie to themselves.

You could really want those things more than money, I don't know for sure, but for me that's hard to believe.

I think the "emotional strings" people get entangled with (wife, family, etc) cause them for forget or not realize how important money is. It's real easy to say that money is not the most important thing in life AFTER you've created those emotional strings. I'd probably say the same thing as you if I had those things, I admit. I mean it's not nice to say that you'd rather have 100 million dollar than have your wife, I would never say that if I was married.

But from my unbiased point of view, I say money is most important.

But then again, I'm a strange bird, I admit that.
 
Originally posted by: JLGatsby
Originally posted by: GeekDrew
I personally couldn't care less about money. Yes, I need it to survive. Yes, it's easier to survive on more money. Yes, you can buy "nicer" things when you have more money. No, I don't think that any of that matters in the grand scheme of things. The only thing that matters to me about life is what I think about myself, the quality of my friendships and relationships, and my family. There are a lot of hobbies or activities that might make me happy for a short period of time, but they're just trivial time-wasters for the most part.

That's what I mean when I say people lie to themselves.

You could really want those things more than money, I don't know for sure, but for me that's hard to believe.

I think the "emotional strings" people get entangled with (wife, family, etc) cause them for forget or not realize how important money is. It's real easy to say that money is not the most important thing in life AFTER you've created those emotional strings. I'd probably say the same thing as you if I had those things, I admit. I mean it's not nice to say that you'd rather have 100 million dollar than have your wife, I would never say that if I was married.

But from my unbiased point of view, I say money is most important.

But then again, I'm a strange bird, I admit that.

It's not strange that you admit that you think money is priority #1 in your life, it's strange/irrational/downright idiotic that you think everyone else should follow suit.
 
Originally posted by: Schadenfreude
It's not strange that you admit that you think money is priority #1 in your life, it's strange/irrational/downright idiotic that you think everyone else should follow suit.

I don't think everyone should follow, I just think that most people lie to themselves to achieve happiness.

Yes, SOME people would truly rather have things other than money, but deep down, most would rather have money.

I'm not saying what other people should do. You are as you are, you cannot change that. I'm just defining what I believe goes on in the back of most people's minds and/or subconscious.

Originally posted by: EGGO
But it definately helps your Sims have the motivation to go to work.

ROFLMAO
 
Originally posted by: JLGatsby
Originally posted by: Schadenfreude
It's not strange that you admit that you think money is priority #1 in your life, it's strange/irrational/downright idiotic that you think everyone else should follow suit.

I don't think everyone should follow, I just think that most people lie to themselves to achieve happiness.

Yes, SOME people would truly rather have things other than money, but deep down, most would rather have money.

I'm not saying what other people should do. You are as you are, you cannot change that. I'm just defining what I believe goes on in the back of most people's minds and/or subconscious.

Originally posted by: EGGO
But it definately helps your Sims have the motivation to go to work.

ROFLMAO

Not everyone is materialistic like you, nor do they wish they were.

Yes, SOME people would truly rather have things like money, but deep down, most would rather have a wife, kids....happiness
 
Originally posted by: JLGatsby
Originally posted by: Schadenfreude
It's not strange that you admit that you think money is priority #1 in your life, it's strange/irrational/downright idiotic that you think everyone else should follow suit.

I don't think everyone should follow, I just think that most people lie to themselves to achieve happiness.

Yes, SOME people would truly rather have things other than money, but deep down, most would rather have money.

I'm not saying what other people should do. You are as you are, you cannot change that. I'm just defining what I believe goes on in the back of most people's minds and/or subconscious.

Originally posted by: EGGO
But it definately helps your Sims have the motivation to go to work.

ROFLMAO

/Head explodes in a sea of logical contradiction

Waitwaitwaitiwait - you're saying that they'd give up money so they could "achieve happiness"? Then why would you be making money in the first place? So they'd be sad? And why would they need to lie? Lie about what?

Yes, you said "I don't think everyone should follow", you're just saying that most should because, and I'm paraphrasing here, "people should(?)/would have a lot of money rather than happiness"?

Semantics aside, which still confuses the hell out of me; what is money to you, JLGatsby? I mean, personal feelings aside, what does it bring to the table for you to want to accumulate so much of it? Money, by principle, is a symbolic form for market exchange, meaning, you'd have to use it to really get their value on a pragmatic level: Is it simply financial security? Or is it societal status? Or is it the power of influence? Of course, money beings a lot of implications to the table, but what one aspect of money drives you to accumulate more? Is it simply the act of collecting that drives you?

And EGGO, that's part of what I said prior - having a drive is good, but you need to balance it out, otherwise it either becomes a deficiency/"sin" in the classical sense.
 
Originally posted by: JLGatsby
Originally posted by: GeekDrew
I personally couldn't care less about money. Yes, I need it to survive. Yes, it's easier to survive on more money. Yes, you can buy "nicer" things when you have more money. No, I don't think that any of that matters in the grand scheme of things. The only thing that matters to me about life is what I think about myself, the quality of my friendships and relationships, and my family. There are a lot of hobbies or activities that might make me happy for a short period of time, but they're just trivial time-wasters for the most part.

That's what I mean when I say people lie to themselves.

You could really want those things more than money, I don't know for sure, but for me that's hard to believe.

I think the "emotional strings" people get entangled with (wife, family, etc) cause them for forget or not realize how important money is. It's real easy to say that money is not the most important thing in life AFTER you've created those emotional strings. I'd probably say the same thing as you if I had those things, I admit. I mean it's not nice to say that you'd rather have 100 million dollar than have your wife, I would never say that if I was married.

But from my unbiased point of view, I say money is most important.

But then again, I'm a strange bird, I admit that.

I'm not lying to myself or anyone else when I say what I have in this thread. I'm not lowering my standards, or fooling myself in any way. Period. I disagree that you're unbiased. I don't believe that *anyone* can be unbiased in regards to this topic.

I don't have a wife or husband. I don't even have a girlfriend or boyfriend. I have nobody to consider "family". I don't have existing "emotional strings" that you suggest.

I have seen both sides of the financial spectrum... I've been in situations in which I can't pay the bills, and I've been in situations in which I've had money available to me that I had no use for.

It's just my opinion that family and friends are far more important than anything else. I can be completely content with myself as a person, and satisfied with my life and successes or failures - but I know that I'll never be completely happy without someone by my side. It's not that I cannot be happy at *all* by myself, or just with myself and a bunch of money; it's just a different type of happiness.

Think about it this way: if you were to have exactly 0 friends, exactly 0 family members, exactly 0 people that care about you, exactly 0 people that "hung out" with you for *who you are*, not *your net worth*, then you would still be happy with just your money/possessions? I could never do that. I would definitely be sad if I had no money or possessions at *all*, and was not able to comfortably survive, but still had my family and/or partner... but without friends and family, I don't give a ****** if I'm the wealthiest man in the world. It wouldn't mean a damned thing to me.

I'm also a strange bird, I guess. I've yet to see anyone else agree with me on this, so <shrug>.
 
Originally posted by: Schadenfreude
Waitwaitwaitiwait - you're saying that they'd give up money so they could "achieve happiness"? Then why would you be making money in the first place? So they'd be sad? And why would they need to lie? Lie about what?

Slight misunderstanding. Most (just most, but not all, some people really are happy, I'm only saying "most") people lie to themselves when they say they'd rather have their...say...wife than lots of money.

Yes, you said "I don't think everyone should follow", you're just saying that most should because, and I'm paraphrasing here, "people should(?)/would have a lot of money rather than happiness"?

No, people should not "want to have a lot of money" just because I said so. I'm saying that DEEP DOWN most people would rather have money, DESPITE what they say on the outside. This is what I mean when I say most people lie to themselves. See also the "emotional string entanglement" I spoke about.

Semantics aside, which still confuses the hell out of me; what is money to you, JLGatsby? I mean, personal feelings aside, what does it bring to the table for you to want to accumulate so much of it? Money, by principle, is a symbolic form for market exchange, meaning, you'd have to use it to really get their value on a pragmatic level: Is it simply financial security? Or is it societal status? Or is it the power of influence? Of course, money beings a lot of implications to the table, but what one aspect of money drives you to accumulate more? Is it simply the act of collecting that drives you?

Money is happiness. It would bring all of the things that would make myself and most people the happiest. It's everything into one. Material objects, respect, admiration. But I think one of the most important things money brings is experience. Experiencing the world. Seeing places and doing things most people never get a chance to see or do.

Most people never get to see the world. Most people's idea of seeing the world is a all-inclusive package vacation or a cruise ship. They don't get to walk where the very few have walked.

I will say this, and no truer words have ever been spoken: You kow the saying, "Anyone who says money doesn't buy happiness, doesn't know where to shop."? That couldn't be truer. Most people undervalue money because they don't know where it can take them. It's not just about material things. It's places, it's people, it's things, it's the overall perspectives you'll be put it.

Money isn't just a "new car" or "bigger house." It's being put in a unique mindset because of the incredible amount of experiences you will incur while being wealthy.
 
Happiness > Money? Plus don't all great religions of the world in one way or another say to strive for happiness?
 
Originally posted by: GeekDrew
I have seen both sides of the financial spectrum... I've been in situations in which I can't pay the bills, and I've been in situations in which I've had money available to me that I had no use for.

See my comment about "I will say this, and no truer words have ever been spoken: " in the post above.

You just fail to understand where money can take you. The places, the things.

Fact: No human being has EVER had "more money than they can spend."

Not Bill Gates. Not JD Rockefeller. Not King Solomon. No one. Ever. Period.
 
Originally posted by: JLGatsby
No, people should not "want to have a lot of money" just because I said so. I'm saying that DEEP DOWN most people would rather have money, DESPITE what they say on the outside. This is what I mean when I say most people lie to themselves. See also the "emotional string entanglement" I spoke about.

No. You *cannot* say that unless you have concrete evidence to prove that. Saying that without evidence is just the same as me saying that most people would rather have friends and family, rather than money.

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
I will say this, and no truer words have ever been spoken: You kow the saying, "Anyone who says money doesn't buy happiness, doesn't know where to shop."? That couldn't be truer. Most people undervalue money because they don't know where it can take them. It's not just about material things. It's places, it's people, it's things, it's the overall perspectives you'll be put it.

Money isn't just a "new car" or "bigger house." It's being put in a unique mindset because of the incredible amount of experiences you will incur while being wealthy.

Yes, I agree that money can put you in a unique mindset. Yes, it would be nice to travel, and have all kinds of experiences. Yes, you would be able to have an infinite number more experiences than someone that is poor would ever be able to achieve.

That does *not* mean that someone would be happy, even if they had all of that. Yes, I'd love to do all of that - but *not* - I repeat, *NOT* without my partner or family with me. It simply would not be an enjoyable experience by myself.

People repeatedly use what I've said here to say that I'm not motivated to make money, or to achieve greatness. You cannot infer that, based on what I've said. Nowhere have I explicitly said that. I'd ****** LOVE to be as wealthy as Bill Gates. I'm willing to work hard to achieve my goals (not that I'm going to list them here). But as far as my life goes, family and friends are far greater than money, no matter the mindset or materials that the money brings.
 
You don't need money to see the world; to get away from where you are now, to experience life. Yes, absolutely, it helps (we've established that having money is nice). Throw on a backpack, grab a toothbrush and hike across Europe. Can't get there? Get a job that will take you there (scrubbing toilets on a ship maybe?).

If money can take you places, just imagine the places you can go with true friends (you know, ones that don't just latch on due to your extreme wealth). Imagine where you can go with your good health! Imagine having someone that's so special in your life that you want to share these wonderful experiences with...that you want to spend every second of every day with.

Don't forget, millions and millions of people live full and happy lives making $20,000 (or less) a year.

We've all said money's important...it just means a hell of a lot less to some as it does to others.
 
Originally posted by: JLGatsby
Originally posted by: GeekDrew
I have seen both sides of the financial spectrum... I've been in situations in which I can't pay the bills, and I've been in situations in which I've had money available to me that I had no use for.

See my comment about "I will say this, and no truer words have ever been spoken: " in the post above.

You just fail to understand where money can take you. The places, the things.

Fact: No human being has EVER had "more money than they can spend."

Not Bill Gates. Not JD Rockefeller. Not King Solomon. No one. Ever. Period.

No. You're wrong. I realize what all the money could be used for. There are all kinds of things that I could have done at certain times, that required significant amounts of money.

I'm not saying that there is enough money in the world to please any single person; it's just that I simply don't give a ****** about doing a lot of stuff unless I'm able to share those experiences with someone that will remember them with me -- my family or friends.

It's not that I have to have someone to be happy... that's not it. There are just a lot of things that I know I would not enjoy without someone to share it with.

<sigh> I don't see how it's so hard to understand my point of view... but I guess that's because I can't see yours, either.
 
Originally posted by: GeekDrew
No. You *cannot* say that unless you have concrete evidence to prove that. Saying that without evidence is just the same as me saying that most people would rather have friends and family, rather than money.

I cannot prove it as fact, because it has not been researched. It's just my "hypothesis." I would say I'm 97% that I'm correct on this issue. But again, it's just my hypothesis. I'm not citing an already proven fact.
 
Originally posted by: JLGatsby
I cannot prove it as fact, because it has not been researched. It's just my "hypothesis." I would say I'm 97% that I'm correct on this issue. But again, it's just my hypothesis. I'm not citing an already proven fact.

As I can say that I'm 99% sure that I'm correct. 😛

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
That's what I mean when I spoke of "entangled in emotional strings."

You've got two extremes pushing each way. I would probably say the same thing you said if I was in your situation, so I'm not going to argue with you. But deep down, I'm not sure I'd be telling the truth. That's just my take on it.

What kind of situation do you think I'm in? lol
 
Originally posted by: JLGatsby
Money is happiness. It would bring all of the things that would make myself and most people the happiest. It's everything into one. Material objects, respect, admiration. But I think one of the most important things money brings is experience. Experiencing the world. Seeing places and doing things most people never get a chance to see or do.

Most people never get to see the world. Most people's idea of seeing the world is a all-inclusive package vacation or a cruise ship. They don't get to walk where the very few have walked.

I will say this, and no truer words have ever been spoken: You kow the saying, "Anyone who says money doesn't buy happiness, doesn't know where to shop."? That couldn't be truer. Most people undervalue money because they don't know where it can take them. It's not just about material things. It's places, it's people, it's things, it's the overall perspectives you'll be put it.

Money isn't just a "new car" or "bigger house." It's being put in a unique mindset because of the incredible amount of experiences you will incur while being wealthy.

I have to say, first and foremost, that yes, you do make a some valid points. It sounds like you're saying that money opens up a lot of opportunities that otherwise would not be available. I know this and realize this because living in an affluent nation lets me afford simple previleges that others, say, living in Africa can't.
But is it only money that brings these choices? On some aspects, it would make it easier, but could it be the only means? I think not.
Let me give you an example: I was a philosophy major who is planning on joining the Army OCS (it's been postponed, unfortunately 🙁). But could any amount of money bring the same kind of experiences that being in a military institution can bring? Would I understand what I understand now if I joined a major in a higher learning environment, only with the intent to have money at the end?
You had the quote, which I think is a little elitist, but I see your point; let me counter with this - if you've ever read Calvin & Hobbs, remember Calvin's dad always saying that certain "duties" have no other rewards other than "build chracter"?

I've also taught martial arts in all levels; I've taught children, the elderly, young adults, etc.: yes, it does cost money to train nowadays, but once my instructor saw how dedicated I was, they've offered to cover my costs when I was struggling. They've even offered me jobs soon afterwards. I'm not talking about one school here; I've been to at least 4 schools that did the same thing. I've also developed and maintained friendships that are closer than any other I have. Could I have the same kind of emotional reward if I just paid to attend classes, but chose to get a high-paying job? Could I develop the same kinds of relationships if we had not toiled together in some way; instead just meeting in classes to chit-chat/have a few drinks, nothing more? I know that it's not the case.

Another example: do you think people are lying when former/current military personnel say they've developed their closest bonds when in the military? If not, why would they do that if they're getting sh!t pay in a crap-tastic situation with contractual obligations to a bureaucracy?

You might argue against that: so let me go to the other extreme - would you, in all honesty, peddle drugs/sell people into slavery/kill people/harvest human organs and sell them on the black market if it means that you'd have money? I've talked to strippers that work 2~3 days a week, make $80k a year easily, and are miserable; there's a national statistic that says that strippers usually have emotional problems/delve into prostitution/other illegal activites - why? Is it because they're not making enough money? You might argue that they were already vulnerable to those activites to begin with - hence the follow up; but if money solves all, wouldn't money be able to solve that problem?

I mean, if you say money is #1, and if you mean it, all those things should not matter one way or another to you. What does it matter that you're killing others if you're making money? What does it matter if you're psychologically messed up if you're making money?

So do you condemn others for not doing those things? If you seriously think only money is #1, things like "social order" and "law" should go out the window in your book.

Yes, I realize that being a philosophy major, I'm one of those particular people that's not quite 'mainstream'. Not in a 'socially adjusted' sense, but in the 'mindset/value system' sense. But I'd still wager that most people here would "like" to be wealthy, but they value their sanity/societal adjustment a little more than that.
 
Originally posted by: Pippy
Happiness > Money? Plus don't all great religions of the world in one way or another say to strive for happiness?

As far as the religion comment's concerned; no. Look at a lot of Christian/Islamic beliefs: they condone suppression of natural desires for bliss in the 'afterlife'. Overall, these effects are subtle, because we live in it (yes, even the atheists) and are blinded by it; for example - how many people have hangs-ups about sex in America that could be cured if only they were a little more open about it? Example: you may laugh, but how many guys can talk about penis size without cringing?

I don't want to make this a flamefest, but religion is the opiate of the masses, beleaguered by dogma and tradition.
 
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