What's the typical salary progression for an engineer?

[Bignate603]

This tone actually annoys me. I know people that have recently graduated with physics and accounting degrees that can't even find jobs. And he's whining about not making $100k.

Yeah, I get the feeling that he's going to rub people the wrong way if he's focusing this much on pay before he's even proven he can do the job well.

 

[rh71]

Many employers will match an offer you get and then hire someone for you to train and ditch you at the first possible moment. If money is an issue, you should ask your current employer for a raise and if they don't give you one, find another job and just leave. They had their chance.

I was thinking about this - so if I have a competing offer, I shouldn't tell my employer about a competitor? Rather, just ask for a raise to that amount? Theoretical question... but it's not like they would ever give such huge raises anyway. As mentioned, new job money is always going to be more.

 

[PsiStar]

Location location location .. it really is all about location. If you live in the middle of no where, the opportunities will be scant. I have a friend, a "hiring manager", in the Bay Area that that recently hired a guy with a BSEE & ~4 years out of school into a SI position @ $150K.

Other friends in interior areas of the US who have not been willing to move are lucky to be making more than $70K after 15 years. A 3% raise for them is generous mostly because their company knows that is all that has to be done to cut down whining.

I know only a little about the bulk of Europe, but countries such as Ireland do have some pretty competitive job offerings ... with the best of the best. Switzerland, is not so much I think.

Of course, the Bay Area is a pretty expensive place to live. It is a little more crowded than those interior areas. But have the most interesting jobs. My friends in the lower paying jobs with little option for promotion; own a few horses, a couple go bow hunting for deer/elk, might have known their neighbor for much of their life.

Quality versus quantity is not so easy to define.

 

[Blieb]

Posts like yours drive me nuts. It's good to inquire about salary progression, and that's why I clicked on this thread ... but your thought process, along with the "low", and "crap" comments are immature and obnoxious.

Maybe I'm the exception, but my approach during my career has been to show up to work every day and bring my A game. It's worked out well.

damn.. 3-5% is low!

How did you come to this conclusion? From what I know about the real world, 3-5% is above average today. With the exception of job changes, most of my raises were 3% or less (0%). I did see an 8% raise once - that was nice and unexpected.

I already have a side job that I work for 20 hours out of the week that brings in an extra 14k/year.. was hoping the salary increases would be better.

50 wks * 20 hrs = $14 / hr ... what kind of work is it? Not Geek Squad ... seems to me like you're taking it up the ass on the side gig, but complaining about the people who are making the real investment in you.

at this rate I'd be looking at 75k from my career job by 30.. that's crap to be honest.

That is crap! I feel bad for you. It must be awful to make more than most entire households take in ...

I really wanted to hit 100k by the time I turned 30.

Target number from imaginary land.

 

[brianmanahan]

Promotions, promotions, switching jobs. Who the hell 'rises' through 3-5% raises? That's BARELY beating inflation.

Engineer -> IT Manager -> IT Director -> VP of IT, etc...

The smarter you are, you learn to network and socialize wisely. Yes, you can be the technical brainiac, but the one who will rise to the top will be the brainiac who also knew how to network.

In this tech forum, lots of people take blind pride in technical expert and 'hating people'. That s**t won't get you far. Less hands-on you do and more decision making you do -> More $$$ in every industry (hospital director, army general, business boss, etc)

not everyone wants to be a manager, lol

 

[Zeze]

not everyone wants to be a manager, lol

Then so be it, that's their limitation.

 

[SeductivePig]

Yeah, I get the feeling that he's going to rub people the wrong way if he's focusing this much on pay before he's even proven he can do the job well.

I enjoy what I do and I've done nothing but my best at work so far. I don't intend to change that..

And to the OP, you should be plenty happy with 3-5% raises right now. Matter of fact, you should be thankful just to be employed.

I'm definitely thankful to be employed.. I'm talking about 6-7 years from now.

$5k a year isn't realistic at all. You're going to to get a few percent a year if you're good and the company doesn't do a raise freeze like many are doing right now. If that happens, then you won't get anything.

You'll get the biggest increase in pay if you start going up the chain and bumping up in job titles. Often you don't even have to switch your role in the company to go to a higher job title that comes with higher pay. For example, when I went from Engineer I to Engineer II at my company I stayed in the same group doing the same work. However, I got a 12% raise. Going up in job titles is the fastest way to go up in pay. When you're starting out its expected that the people that are good can go up a title about every 2 years. The people that aren't good can take double that.

Find out if your company will bump you up a job title (and pay) without moving around. For example, can you go from Engineer I to Engineer II without applying for another job inside the company? In some they'll bump up your title (and your pay) if you're doing well and have put in enough time. In others you need to apply for internal positions that have the job title you're looking for to get bumped up.

One last thing, if you're so set on making a salary over $100k you probably should have done your research before you entered the field. It's a bit late to say that you don't like the compensation.

There are definitely different levels at my company - engineer 1, engineer 2, engineer 2, project engineer 1, project manager, etc etc.

I just don't know what to expect from this company in particular - it's a small company and I really like it, and everyone says there's lots of opportunities for me here. The thing that I question is that initially before my first interview, I told the recruiter (when asked) that my salary expectation was 45k. They gave me 61k.

So it makes me wonder if since they're a private consulting firm, do they pay their employees a bit more than normal? I mean, I had a 2.5 and no experience - how can they afford to pay me this much?


As for the whole 100k thing.. it's just a total figure I want to have by the time I'm 30. I knew going into engineering that I wouldn't be making 6 figures anytime soon, but I would feel like I didn't try hard enough if I'm still making 80kish in 6 years. A friend of mine got his BS in accounting in San Francisco and is starting out at 70k.. he told me his employer said he'd be at 100k in 5 years if he stuck with that company. Just makes me question if it's possible for an engineer to do that..

Whether I have to do this by investing, having a side income (I would like to be a personal trainer part time), or switching jobs, is hard to figure out.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I was thinking about this - so if I have a competing offer, I shouldn't tell my employer about a competitor? Rather, just ask for a raise to that amount? Theoretical question... but it's not like they would ever give such huge raises anyway. As mentioned, new job money is always going to be more.

It really comes down to how much you trust your company and your boss, but even then, it is risky to go in and say "I've got another offer -- would you consider matching it?" Even people you trust or think you know might react unpredictably if they feel like you're backing them into a corner, so keep that in mind. Additionally, another factor to consider is something a former boss once told me. He said that he would never match a competing offer because statistics show that even if you do match a competitor's offer, the employee is still likely to leave within 2 or 3 years. Of course, that didn't stop him from begging me not to leave once when he thought I was leaving (I was not).

Now, with that being said, I need to take my own advice. I should've asked for a raise last year and did not and now, my boss is leaving so I am pretty much screwed for the immediate future in all likelihood. Strike while the iron is hot -- once you've had success, ask as soon as you can. In my case, I've got about a year before my retirement vests in this company and in that time, I need to get motivated and maybe finish a few certs and plan my exit strategy in case I really hate the new manager they bring onboard.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Then so be it, that's their limitation.

I think that's a very narrow view to be honest. You have to do what you're interested in and what you'll be happy doing. Everything else should really be secondary assuming that you make at least enough to live and be comfortable. I've been a manager before and while I didn't enjoy it at the time, I wouldn't mind moving back into that role at some point. As far as PMs go, well, I still may eventually find myself in one of those jobs if I finish my PMP, but I'll repeat what I've said about PMs before -- I really don't respect the job and I've never worked with a competent PMP (all were idiots), but if you can't beat them, you might as well join them. I can be a highly overpaid secretary with the best of them.

 

[Zeze]

I think that's a very narrow view to be honest. You have to do what you're interested in and what you'll be happy doing. Everything else should really be secondary assuming that you make at least enough to live and be comfortable.

I agree with your sentiment about being happy and comfortable. But OP wanted to make lots of cash. And lots of cash are in management. It's not because management is a 'different route', it exists in all fields. That's how society operates.

Decision makers 'generally' make more money than specialists. I don't have to spell it to him. What do CEOs do?

Of course specialists make good money (ex, a surgeon), but for every specialist, there is a manager who makes more.

I'm not arguing which is better suited for individuals or what brianian (whatever his name is) should do. Not a narrow view, but stating a plain fact.

[edit]
Oh, and this isn't about Engineer vs PM. I've mentioned nothing of sort. As a matter of fact I talked about Engineer turning into IT Director (a manager) in order to make more money. PM's aren't managers either, just a different path.

 

[CountZero]

I enjoy what I do and I've done nothing but my best at work so far. I don't intend to change that..



I'm definitely thankful to be employed.. I'm talking about 6-7 years from now.



There are definitely different levels at my company - engineer 1, engineer 2, engineer 2, project engineer 1, project manager, etc etc.

I just don't know what to expect from this company in particular - it's a small company and I really like it, and everyone says there's lots of opportunities for me here. The thing that I question is that initially before my first interview, I told the recruiter (when asked) that my salary expectation was 45k. They gave me 61k.

So it makes me wonder if since they're a private consulting firm, do they pay their employees a bit more than normal? I mean, I had a 2.5 and no experience - how can they afford to pay me this much?


As for the whole 100k thing.. it's just a total figure I want to have by the time I'm 30. I knew going into engineering that I wouldn't be making 6 figures anytime soon, but I would feel like I didn't try hard enough if I'm still making 80kish in 6 years. A friend of mine got his BS in accounting in San Francisco and is starting out at 70k.. he told me his employer said he'd be at 100k in 5 years if he stuck with that company. Just makes me question if it's possible for an engineer to do that..

Whether I have to do this by investing, having a side income (I would like to be a personal trainer part time), or switching jobs, is hard to figure out.

It is hard for anyone to speculate since you are at a small company. All the usual rules go out the window, so you have to take what everyone is saying with a grain of salt as nobody knows how your small company operates. Big companies, multinationals and such all seem to operate pretty similarly.

It is entirely possible to go from 61k to 100k in 7 years just on salary even if you don't live in a high CoL area. It might involve job hopping, demanding a higher salary, climbing the ladder or taking a counter offer (the advice to never take the counter is not 100% true, only you know your management chain in addition within 4 years you will start to see if people jump ship or take counters and you'll know the reactions). It is unlikely that if you never do anything proactive that you will get to 100k quickly but again small company might be more proactive in keeping its workers happy with their salary.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I agree with your sentiment about being happy and comfortable. But OP wanted to make lots of cash. And lots of cash are in management. It's not because management is a 'different route', but that's how society operates.

Decision makers 'generally' make more money than specialists. I don't have to spell it to him. What do CEOs do?

More often than not, sink perfectly good companies, it seems.

Of course specialists make good money (ex, a surgeon), but for every specialist, there is a manager who makes more.

I'm not arguing which is better or what brianian (whatever his name is) should do. I'm just stating a fact.

Most people will never make it to a C-level position, however. I'd say that the best route to make lots of money (if you're so inclined) is to do consulting. To do that, though, you have to have some experience under your belt first and you have to have some social skills. In my own case, I'd make about 50% more by doing consulting but obviously, you won't have great (or any) benefits in most cases and my current comp package eats up most of that 50% increase.

Oh, and this isn't about Engineer vs PM. I've mentioned nothing of sort. As a matter of fact I talked about Engineer turning into IT Director (a manager) in order to make more money. PM's aren't managers either, just a different path.

That's true that they aren't managers in the traditional sense, but many are paid like actual managers. I think that was more my point. I think the lowest I've ever seen a job requiring a PMP advertised for in the Indy market was $85K and that was pretty low compared to the other postings. Indy is a dirt cheap area to live in, as well, so $100K here is like $160K+ in NY or SF.

 

[Zeze]

Since YOU brought it up, I never understood this rage against PMs, and PM vs Engineer mentality. I really gave more credit to ATOT to have a better insight and escape from their petty stereotype.

Of course Engineers are mad because PMs don't know Engineer's shit. Otherwise they would be Engineers? It goes both ways: PMs get angry at Engineers for their tunnel vision and not just producing results for clients and what company wants as whole.

Both are crucial to function in a company. It's like heart and brain bitching about who needs more.

At the end of the day, the person who doesn't give a shit and thinks better rise to top and run to the bank with $.

 

[Zeze]

That's true that they aren't managers in the traditional sense, but many are paid like actual managers. I think that was more my point. I think the lowest I've ever seen a job requiring a PMP advertised for in the Indy market was $85K and that was pretty low compared to the other postings. Indy is a dirt cheap area to live in, as well, so $100K here is like $160K+ in NY or SF.

So you just proved my point? I don't give a shit about PMs because I'm one. It just happens to be so. If market adjusted itself to demand such salary, who can anyone blame?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Since YOU brought it up, I never understood this rage against PMs, and PM vs Engineer mentality. I really gave more credit to ATOT to have a better insight and escape from their petty stereotype.

I don't want to turn this into an engineer vs. PM thread, but since YOU asked ( -- and keep in mind that I am still considering switching to a PM role at some point, so don't take it personally).....

In my case, I have first hand experience with various PMs with PMPs and they were generally worthless. They added nothing to any of the projects and generally resulted in delays, obstruction, etc. It would've been far more efficient to have a lead engineer run and plan the project, which is what I've done in the past and had far better project results. I've been on projects run by PMPs and been on projects run by engineers (including myself), and the projects run by engineers were always the ones that were managed better.

For example, a PMP I am dealing with now is driving me crazy and I finally got fed up with him last week and told him to butt out and I would update him when updates need to be made. He is with an external company that did work for us and now, the product is in our hands for a pilot and it is completely unnecessary for him to badger me via email, phone, and visits to my office especially when those calls/emails/office visits inevitably result in me having to re-explain concepts or plans for the tenth time. Seriously, when I talk to him, I feel like I am talking to a 6 year-old and have to talk S L O W L Y so he'll understand. Again, an engineer managing the project would be a better fit.

Another example is that we hired a PMP at our company as a contractor and I fear he will become full time. The guy is clueless and when he first started, every discussion with him turned into an argument about what Sharepoint was capable of. He lost EVERY SINGLE ARGUMENT and yet, kept arguing with me and arguing with me and is another that you have to explain things to multiple times and it gets very, very tiring.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

So you just proved my point? I don't give a shit about PMs because I'm one. It just happens to be so. If market adjusted itself to demand such salary, who can anyone blame?

What point of yours did I prove exactly? I don't think I've disagreed with anything you've really said. It isn't exactly a secret that managers make more than their employees on average; I just think that in my experience, PM opportunities are more available than real manager positions and since they can make roughly the same, that is an option for the OP.

 

[Zeze]

I don't want to turn this into an engineer vs. PM thread, but since YOU asked ( -- and keep in mind that I am still considering switching to a PM role at some point, so don't take it personally).....

In my case, I have first hand experience with various PMs with PMPs and they were generally worthless. They added nothing to any of the projects and generally resulted in delays, obstruction, etc. It would've been far more efficient to have a lead engineer run and plan the project, which is what I've done in the past and had far better project results. I've been on projects run by PMPs and been on projects run by engineers (including myself), and the projects run by engineers were always the ones that were managed better.

For example, a PMP I am dealing with now is driving me crazy and I finally got fed up with him last week and told him to butt out and I would update him when updates need to be made. He is with an external company that did work for us and now, the product is in our hands for a pilot and it is completely unnecessary for him to badger me via email, phone, and visits to my office especially when those calls/emails/office visits inevitably result in me having to re-explain concepts or plans for the tenth time. Seriously, when I talk to him, I feel like I am talking to a 6 year-old and have to talk S L O W L Y so he'll understand. Again, an engineer managing the project would be a better fit.

Another example is that we hired a PMP at our company as a contractor and I fear he will become full time. The guy is clueless and when he first started, every discussion with him turned into an argument about what Sharepoint was capable of. He lost EVERY SINGLE ARGUMENT and yet, kept arguing with me and arguing with me and is another that you have to explain things to multiple times and it gets very, very tiring.

Sorry about your experiences. I work with an excellent Pharma IT director who bridges the gap between 'Eng vs PM' tension in my very company. I also know an amazing PM (who just promoted to PDirector and became my boss) that was effortless in her ways to manage clients, project lines, delegating work, and frameworking.

I learn a lot from both. I'm especially in awe of my boss who knows just what to say so people respect her and do what she says- it's a great trait to have. I wish I had it naturally.

 

[TXHokie]

This tone actually annoys me. I know people that have recently graduated with physics and accounting degrees that can't even find jobs. And he's whining about not making $100k.

Why? If OP has the skill, the drive, and determination to be successful and money is his driver then I'd say go for it. My big mistake coming out of school was staying so long at my first job while I was being underpaid because I was "happy just to have a job". If you are good at what you do and have a unique skill in demand, there's always better opportunity. If your current employer don't recognize that and compensate you properly, find someone else that does. Don't short sell yourself.

 

[Molondo]

If I'm not happy with the job, no amount of money would please me. A good job and 60k+ is fine by me. I can have a comfortable life with that.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Sorry about your experiences. I work with an excellent Pharma IT director who bridges the gap between 'Eng vs PM' tension in my very company. I also know an amazing PM (who just promoted to PDirector and became my boss) that was effortless in her ways to manage clients, project lines, delegating work, and frameworking.

I learn a lot from both. I'm especially in awe of my boss who knows just what to say so people respect her and do what she says- it's a great trait to have. I wish I had it naturally.

I've heard from a friend that he used to work with PMs who were naturals and could get to the root of a problem and come up with amazing solutions working in teamwork with engineers, etc. with minimal bureaucracy and pain. I'd like to meet someone like this and learn from them. I was hoping the PM we hired was going to be like this and I'd learn from him, but unfortunately, he isn't.

 

[Zeze]

I've heard from a friend that he used to work with PMs who were naturals and could get to the root of a problem and come up with amazing solutions working in teamwork with engineers, etc. with minimal bureaucracy and pain. I'd like to meet someone like this and learn from them. I was hoping the PM we hired was going to be like this and I'd learn from him, but unfortunately, he isn't.

PMs also shield engineers from the god awful clients. We take it up the ass from them and present it to you in a nice neat package. No wonder my ass hurts on my commute back every day...

 

[Imdmn04]

Not that difficult with software "engineering" or an EE willing to program.

Amazon, Microsoft around here all start fresh grads around $75k here, 2-3 years you should be able to $100k if you jump ship once, or get promoted.

With other engineering (mechanical, civil, industrial, etc.), it is a bit more difficult.

 

[spidey07]

Then so be it, that's their limitation.

Yep. They'll hit their ceiling and wonder why they can't make more. Have to go management or consult. Engineers are the grunts. It's the people telling them what to do that make the money.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

This tone actually annoys me. I know people that have recently graduated with physics and accounting degrees that can't even find jobs. And he's whining about not making $100k.

Yeah, I agree. It seems many kids coming out of school want the big bucks right away and they haven't produced a single thing or proven they can actually DO something. It's like they think a piece of paper magically grants them X salary.

Moral of the story is - get in, PROVE yourself and if you're good you'll start making bigger money.

 

[FleshLight]

Typical progression for an engineer in a public field in a major city at a large firm (utilities, civil, structural, hvac, etc)

Assistant - $50k
Associate - $60k
Senior (typically with PE) - $70-100k
Project Manager - $70-100k
Principal/Chief Engineer - $100k+
Office Manager - $120k+

Or if you decide to jump into public sector:
Senior Engineer: $80-100k
Principal Engineer: $100-130k
District Engineer: $120k+
Assistant General Manager: $130k+
General Manager: $150k+