What's the point of the war in Afghanistan?

[Hayabusa Rider]

The point of staying in is more about not losing than it is about "winning."

There once was a laudable objective - to eradicate AQ and the Taliban. We had an opportunity to do that but failed. What is left is about saving face. I say that not to trivialize the goal, because saving face actually matters. If we pull up stakes and leave the country with the Taliban being at its current level of prominence, we have admitted defeat to terrorists. This in turn will embolden them and probably swell their ranks. Saving face is actually about real security, not just protecting political egos (though it is that, too.)

What we want to do there is carefully define "victory" in a way that is plausibly achieveable. If we can spend a few more years there and leave under a circumstance where the Taliban has significantly less territorial influence, and the government security forces are stronger than now, we can call it a "victory." If the situation deteriorates in the longer term, which it likely will, that is not our problem. We just need to avoid another Nam, where we bail and the enemy takes over immediately.

- wolf

I agree with you completely, and I'll note that what you say was said about another war in SE asia decades ago. It came to be known as "peace with honor".

It is inevitable that when we leave the Taliban will come back. The people feel that their current leaders are corrupt and that's there's not much choice between the two options. Whether that's true in fact matters not. That's the perception, and in these cases perception is tantamount to reality.

 

[Fern]

-snip-
3) Piss off Imadinnerjacket

lol

Fern

 

[Fern]

They only attacked us because we occupied the middle east and gave aid to Israel. Why is that worth it?

I don't know why you've addressed this to me, but:

1. IMO, we can give our money to whomever the h3ll we want it's our money. In fact, we give a pot load to Arab countries as well, also I don't recall Israel attacking Afganistan, or anywhere else for that matter, with our "money". Personally, I'd rather we keep our money 'charity begins at home'. IDK why we need to subsidize these rich oil states who are just sucking money from us and most of the Western world.

2. Occupying the Middle East? I don't consider being asked by the Saudi's to be "occupying". If the taliban didn't like it, they should take it up with the Saudi's. I'm pretty sure we were hanging around there then because the Saudi's were worried about being attacked like Kuwait.

Fern

 

[woolfe9999]

I agree with you completely, and I'll note that what you say was said about another war in SE asia decades ago. It came to be known as "peace with honor".

It is inevitable that when we leave the Taliban will come back. The people feel that their current leaders are corrupt and that's there's not much choice between the two options. Whether that's true in fact matters not. That's the perception, and in these cases perception is tantamount to reality.

Yes I more or less agree, except that we didn't achieve "peace with honor" in Nam. We were widely regarded as having lost that conflict. Here, I think it's possible, though I don't know if it will ultimately happen.

I think the goal here is to leave the country in a situation where the government can hang on against the Taliban in the short to middle term. In the long term, I don't think it's inevitable that the Taliban will take over. What IS close to inevitable is that there will be instability and warring in that country, because it is economically impoverished and has no tradition of good government. So what I mean to say here is that if 5 years later there is a civil war there, that isn't something that would necessarily be viewed as a "loss," whereas the Taliban taking back the government in short order after we leave, would. A civil war might or might not even involve the Taliban as a major player. Could even be an inter-ethnic conflict.

Honestly, the best idea I've heard comes from Chris Hitchens. He thinks they should legalize the opium trade there and give them contracts to use it for prescription medications. Since their problem is the lack of an economic base, that seems to be a promising idea. However, that is apparently a tough issue since most of the legal opium cultivation concessions are given to Turkey right now, and they are a NATO member.

- wolf

 

[Patranus]

I am pretty sure the West tried to leave Afghanistan to the Muslims to govern themselves. This resulted in the Taliban, support to Al Qaeda, and 9/11. The West will not make that mistake again.

(Plus it puts troops on both sides of Iran )

 

[BoberFett]

Goddam Republica... nevermind.

 

[Anarchist420]

Alright, thanks for the replies. I don't favor going after Bin Laden/al-qaida/taliban though, it's not worthit and it'll just have negative consequences in the end, maybe even an end to our republic.

There are times when I don't see the Constitutional Republic lasting more than another 5 years. It's like the government is purposefully trying to crash the country. That's how I see it.

 

[Sacrilege]

We should fly the B-52s in and return the primitive untermenschen who live there back to the dust from whence they came.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Afghanista...stan-helped-secret-shelters/story?id=10074409

What exactly do these sub humans contribute to human society or culture?

That entire nation is a blot on the annals of human history and we are better off without it.

I read recently there are large mineral reserves under the ground there. If we kill all the sub humans, worthwhile people can utilize these resources.

 

[HannibalX]

O & O

Opium & Oil

When do we get the oil?

 

[theamericans075]

I am pretty sure the West tried to leave Afghanistan to the Muslims to govern themselves. This resulted in the Taliban, support to Al Qaeda, and 9/11. The West will not make that mistake again.

(Plus it puts troops on both sides of Iran )

The taliban was a monster of our own creation. Either way, before 9/11 the taliban were an oppressive regime in some bumfuck country. Now everyone that actually committed 9/11 is gone, and Afghanistan is back to its state in 2000. We weren't attacking them then, why keep it up now.

 

[Nemesis 1]

In the broadest possible terms I believe the point is to prevent Afganistan from once again becoming a base from which terrorist attacks can be launched on the west.

Beyond that (e.g., nation-building etc) IDK; and IDK if they (Washington DC) know either.

Edit: I'm glad to see it put to a vote, if only a resolution.

Fern

I to am happy to see the vote. Them dems are blood thirsty lot are they not . Every night befor a bed down I look under bed for terrorist. Its like the boggy man . You won't see him till ya look in the mirror.

 

[Noobtastic]

No point. America's occupation and war in Afghanistan is not simply hypocritical but moral indefensible.

I only support conflict based on self-defense or humanitarian intervention.

Afghanistan war is neither. It is a Muslim cesspool.

The soviets couldn't defeat Afghani trolls, neither can we.

And they were killing 25,000 civilians a month.

 

[Zebo]

None. Until you name the enemy it's a waste of men, money and material like fighting the Blitzkrieg would have been if FDR were so stupid to utter those words. This war has been going on since 622 and until we have a little Inquisition of our own again we are spinning our wheels.

 

[bamacre]

Really? And the trillions being spent on bailouts and stimulus has nothing to do with it?

~10 years of Iraq and Afghanistan have cost us a LOT more than bailouts and stimulus bills.

 

[Alistar7]

~10 years of Iraq and Afghanistan have cost us a LOT more than bailouts and stimulus bills.

How much damage did 9/11 do to our economy? What was used to get it moving again? A substantial increase of the money supply fed into the system through bad mortgages/credit lines.

We don't owe Afghanistan anything for our support of them in their resistance to Soviet occupation. Once the Taliban gained control every country in the world turned their back, cutting virtually all aid. After we were attacked and removed the Taliban from power we were then obligated to helping rebuild Afghanistan into a functioning, stable country with responsible governance.

A much tougher task than Iraq, which has a well educated population & a detoriorated, but still modern, infrastructure. Afghanistan was blown back to 3rd world status during Soviet occupation & was never rebuilt.