What's the point of labor laws...

[PaperclipGod]

...when we just buy stuff from countries that don't have the same standards?

 

[Patranus]

Government control of industry and the ability to legislate favors to certain voting blocks.

 

[dmcowen674]

...when we just buy stuff from countries that don't have the same standards?

What? We don't pay children 8 cents an hour here?

 

[Hacp]

...when we just buy stuff from countries that don't have the same standards?

The point of labor laws is to make the US uncompetitive with developing nations such as China and India.

 

[Patranus]

What? We don't pay children 8 cents an hour here?

Why don't we pay the 8 million people in jail to do the same thing so they can pay for their room and board?

2 problems solved.

 

[Hacp]

Why don't we pay the 8 million people in jail to do the same thing so they can pay for their room and board?

2 problems solved.

Seriously. And also require people on food stamps to work a hard day's labor. If people actually had to work for their food stamps, they would get off their buts and you know, actually contribute to society.

 

[PaperclipGod]

I'm actually hoping someone who supports labor laws can respond, because I'm curious what the rationale is.

As it is, it seems like it'd be much better for our economy (and the unemployment rate) if we got rid of our labor laws. If you're willing to work for $4/hr, then you can. It's not much, but better you get it than a company in China, right?

 

[Patranus]

I'm actually hoping someone who supports labor laws can respond, because I'm curious what the rationale is.

As it is, it seems like it'd be much better for our economy (and the unemployment rate) if we got rid of our labor laws. If you're willing to work for $4/hr, then you can. It's not much, but better you get it than a company in China, right?

1/2 the child labor laws are 100% stupid.
One example is that my sister had a major role in an opera. She was 12 and had a apply and then get a permit to be able to work. Granted this was in California.......

 

[Jhhnn]

Government control of industry and the ability to legislate favors to certain voting blocks.

Completely bass-ackwards, usual for the source at hand. More like this-

"Industry control of government and the ability to buy legislative favors (particularly from repubs) for themselves."

International Free Market! World Economy! Free Flow of Capital! Trickledown Economics!

Righties' memories are sooo convenient...

 

[PaperclipGod]

Completely bass-ackwards, usual for the source at hand. More like this-

"Industry control of government and the ability to buy legislative favors (particularly from repubs) for themselves."

International Free Market! World Economy! Free Flow of Capital! Trickledown Economics!

Righties' memories are sooo convenient...

So your point is that labor laws help industry?

 

[Patranus]

Completely bass-ackwards, usual for the source at hand. More like this-

"Industry control of government and the ability to buy legislative favors (particularly from repubs) for themselves."

International Free Market! World Economy! Free Flow of Capital! Trickledown Economics!

Righties' memories are sooo convenient...

Take a look at how unions have legislated their way into existence and now have the full power of the federal government backing them.

I have no problems with the idea of unions but government shouldn't be legislating special rights for unions.

 

[dmcowen674]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patranus
Why don't we pay the 8 million people in jail to do the same thing so they can pay for their room and board?

2 problems solved.

Seriously. And also require people on food stamps to work a hard day's labor. If people actually had to work for their food stamps, they would get off their buts and you know, actually contribute to society.

Actually Indian prisoners get $2.20 a day to process American banking data.

http://www.itnews.com.au/News/17463...firm-looks-to-prison-for-data-entry-work.aspx

The outsourcing centre will handle banking information 24 hours a day using a shift system. Inmates will be paid US$2.20 a day, compared to US$0.33 cents a day for other work.

The prison was chosen because it has almost 40 percent of inmates classified as educated. The area also has good IT infrastructure.

 

[Jhhnn]

So your point is that labor laws help industry?

Deliberately obtuse? Standard rightwing methodology.

 

[Jhhnn]

Take a look at how unions have legislated their way into existence and now have the full power of the federal government backing them.

I have no problems with the idea of unions but government shouldn't be legislating special rights for unions.

Duh-vert!

 

[dullard]

...when we just buy stuff from countries that don't have the same standards?

I personally don't fly to China every time I feel like eating out. Do you?

My point is that we CAN'T just buy stuff from other countries in most situations. Thus, the labor laws help those people most of the time. The rest of the time it harms people like children who can't work due to the labor laws and it hurts and people who want to be indentured servants.

Sure, sometimes we can buy stuff from China. But, buyer beware. My last Chineese custom order (for a project at work) was due in Feburary and I'm still waiting. They keep sending messages such as "the Chineese new year held up production". Sure, I save a bit of money, but time and kept promisses are money too.

 

[jackschmittusa]

Well, we could get more production out of our employees if we let managers beat them like other countries do.

Flying would be cheaper if pilots could be made to fly 90 hours a week. Truck drivers could easily be made to do 100 hours.

No reason children can't do 40 hours + school.

Most things would be cheaper without OSHA. After all, workers are just a commodity; break one, get a new one.

Overtime pay is unnecessary. If people want to feed their kids, they'll be happy to work long hours for a pittance.

And why stop at labor laws if we want to follow China's example? How about dropping environmental laws too to be competitive? What's a few Love Canals here and there? Lead is cheap. Why not use it in children's toys? Moldy drywall is cheap too. Who really cares about toxins in toothpaste?

 

[IGBT]

your political whores on both sides of the isle let it happen. airbuss is making commercial aircraft in china and paying 3.00 an hour for skilled labor.

 

[Hacp]

Well, we could get more production out of our employees if we let managers beat them like other countries do.

Flying would be cheaper if pilots could be made to fly 90 hours a week. Truck drivers could easily be made to do 100 hours.

No reason children can't do 40 hours + school.

Most things would be cheaper without OSHA. After all, workers are just a commodity; break one, get a new one.

Overtime pay is unnecessary. If people want to feed their kids, they'll be happy to work long hours for a pittance.

And why stop at labor laws if we want to follow China's example? How about dropping environmental laws too to be competitive? What's a few Love Canals here and there? Lead is cheap. Why not use it in children's toys? Moldy drywall is cheap too. Who really cares about toxins in toothpaste?

Here's the magic of capitalism. If people don't like it, they vote with their money or time. More attractive businesses take the workers and customers of the businesses that aren't up to snuff.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Here's the magic of capitalism. If people don't like it, they vote with their money or time. More attractive businesses take the workers and customers of the businesses that aren't up to snuff.

This reminds me of a joke:

Q: What's the difference between a wealthy person willing to invest (ie. forgo current consumption for greater future consumption) and a poor person, with only the immediate fruits of their labour standing between them and starvation?

A: NOTHING, they are both able to make completely free and uncoerced choices about how to spend their time and money.

 

[Craig234]

I'm actually hoping someone who supports labor laws can respond, because I'm curious what the rationale is.

As it is, it seems like it'd be much better for our economy (and the unemployment rate) if we got rid of our labor laws. If you're willing to work for $4/hr, then you can. It's not much, but better you get it than a company in China, right?

There are a number of answers to your question.

One is that we're responsible for what happens here. Having bad things happen here and justifying it with 'well it happens in China too' isn't a good approach.

But there are competitive factors as well. Welcome to a global economy with inequality.

On things like pay level, it's not going to be equal. There's a balance between taking advantage of cheap foreign labor, and protecitng our own labor force.

The basic tool is tariffs. That's how our government got nearly all its revenue for over half the time of the US. They can be used for cost issues, moral issues, whatever.

We should have government working to spread higher standards globally - pressuring other governments to hav worker safety, etc.

Unfortunately, almost the entire agenda seems to be protecting the interests of the owners. And we see the result things like plummeting pay for American workers.

The US could be drug down to returning to child labor, low safety standards, no workman's comp, and so on. We don't do a lot of that because of labor laws.

The costs of shipping goods from overseas seems to have sometimes added an informal 'tarriff' that has helped a little with protecting American labor, but not much.

When I can go on Amazon and order a one dollar item made in China shipped to my location free in two days with Amazon prime, it's clear the China shipping costs aren't that big.

IMO, we need a political effort to look at trade issues with the priority being the good of the American people and the world, not merely the good of the owners' profits.

There doesn't seem a good chance of that. In the meantime, the laws provide some protection for American workers, and that's a good thing.

 

[nonlnear]

To enjoy the economic benefits of slavery without the social instability. Or to put it differently, to avoid the social instability of oppressive employment terms, while using our global labor price disadvantage to give the rest of the world a hand up. See it's all in the presentation!

 

[Red Dawn]

There are a number of answers to your question.

One is that we're responsible for what happens here. Having bad things happen here and justifying it with 'well it happens in China too' isn't a good approach.

But there are competitive factors as well. Welcome to a global economy with inequality.

On things like pay level, it's not going to be equal. There's a balance between taking advantage of cheap foreign labor, and protecitng our own labor force.

The basic tool is tariffs. That's how our government got nearly all its revenue for over half the time of the US. They can be used for cost issues, moral issues, whatever.

We should have government working to spread higher standards globally - pressuring other governments to hav worker safety, etc.

Unfortunately, almost the entire agenda seems to be protecting the interests of the owners. And we see the result things like plummeting pay for American workers.

The US could be drug down to returning to child labor, low safety standards, no workman's comp, and so on. We don't do a lot of that because of labor laws.

The costs of shipping goods from overseas seems to have sometimes added an informal 'tarriff' that has helped a little with protecting American labor, but not much.

When I can go on Amazon and order a one dollar item made in China shipped to my location free in two days with Amazon prime, it's clear the China shipping costs aren't that big.

IMO, we need a political effort to look at trade issues with the priority being the good of the American people and the world, not merely the good of the owners' profits.

There doesn't seem a good chance of that. In the meantime, the laws provide some protection for American workers, and that's a good thing.

Not often do I agree with you but on this issue I believe you are spot on.

 

[PrinceofWands]

There are a number of answers to your question.

One is that we're responsible for what happens here. Having bad things happen here and justifying it with 'well it happens in China too' isn't a good approach.

But there are competitive factors as well. Welcome to a global economy with inequality.

On things like pay level, it's not going to be equal. There's a balance between taking advantage of cheap foreign labor, and protecitng our own labor force.

The basic tool is tariffs. That's how our government got nearly all its revenue for over half the time of the US. They can be used for cost issues, moral issues, whatever.

We should have government working to spread higher standards globally - pressuring other governments to hav worker safety, etc.

Unfortunately, almost the entire agenda seems to be protecting the interests of the owners. And we see the result things like plummeting pay for American workers.

The US could be drug down to returning to child labor, low safety standards, no workman's comp, and so on. We don't do a lot of that because of labor laws.

The costs of shipping goods from overseas seems to have sometimes added an informal 'tarriff' that has helped a little with protecting American labor, but not much.

When I can go on Amazon and order a one dollar item made in China shipped to my location free in two days with Amazon prime, it's clear the China shipping costs aren't that big.

IMO, we need a political effort to look at trade issues with the priority being the good of the American people and the world, not merely the good of the owners' profits.

There doesn't seem a good chance of that. In the meantime, the laws provide some protection for American workers, and that's a good thing.

This...absolutely this.

Before labor laws (but after industrialization) America SUCKED ASS. Seriously, it was an exploitative, dangerous, abusive, unjust pile of steaming pre-capitalist feces. Labor laws are ESSENTIAL for the existence of civilized nations. There is absolutely no moral rational for abandonment of worker protections.

 

[Red Dawn]

This...absolutely this.

Before labor laws (but after industrialization) America SUCKED ASS. Seriously, it was an exploitative, dangerous, abusive, unjust pile of steaming pre-capitalist feces. Labor laws are ESSENTIAL for the existence of civilized nations. There is absolutely no moral rational for abandonment of worker protections.

Definitely, it's something that I feel strongly enough to take up arms to protect.

 

[Hacp]

This...absolutely this.

Before labor laws (but after industrialization) America SUCKED ASS. Seriously, it was an exploitative, dangerous, abusive, unjust pile of steaming pre-capitalist feces. Labor laws are ESSENTIAL for the existence of civilized nations. There is absolutely no moral rational for abandonment of worker protections.

What kind of patriot are you? Are you saying that America, the same America our founding fathers lived in, sucked ass? The people who fought and died for the land they love would disagree.