What I mean by this is what is the framerate where the eye will see something as running smoothely. Can the eye see a difference between 30fps and 50 fps? Between 50fps and 150fps? Or is there a point where the eye can no longer detect that there is a difference?
Whats the highest framerate that the human eye can detect?
- Thread starter Atlantean
- Start date
between 60 and 100 fps on CS i notice it being much smoother and not as choppy when i move around, but the movement of the characters is the same.
best way is to test for your self. some people cant notice 60hz, but that kills my eyes. i like 85+
my monitor does 160 at 800x600 and 120 at 1024x768
i think its noticable all the way up
JBLaze
my monitor does 160 at 800x600 and 120 at 1024x768
i think its noticable all the way up
JBLaze
I am talking about frame rate not refresh rate. Like frame rate when you are watching a movie or playing a game.
well, still id say the same thing. vsync on at 800x600x160hz looks much better than even 85hz
JBLaze
JBLaze
There is an obvious and distinct difference between 150 and 50fps. It's hard to say exactly where you'd stop being able to tell a difference, and I suppose everyone is a bit different as well. I'm sure this thread will draw the "24fps is all the eye can see cause film runs at 24fps" moe-rons though. Personally I'm fairly happy with something in the ~85fps range in a fast moving game, though more is always better. I don't require as much from slower moving games for them to feel relatively smooth though.
There was an app floating around a good while back that allowed you to view a rotating wheel type "thingy" split into two sections, you could set the framerate you wanted for each side and see for yourself the difference. I could detect the difference between 85fps and 120fps, but it was oh so very slight, at that point it was just spliting hairs. I very seriously doubt that without them sitting side by side I could have picked out the 85 vs. the 120. I guarantee I could have picked out 60fps vs. 120fps. everytime however.
There was an app floating around a good while back that allowed you to view a rotating wheel type "thingy" split into two sections, you could set the framerate you wanted for each side and see for yourself the difference. I could detect the difference between 85fps and 120fps, but it was oh so very slight, at that point it was just spliting hairs. I very seriously doubt that without them sitting side by side I could have picked out the 85 vs. the 120. I guarantee I could have picked out 60fps vs. 120fps. everytime however.
ok.
i know what you mean. im being to brief.
if i started q3 up at these settings: 800x600@160hz with vsync on, my fps never drops below 160 because with vsync off id be getting alot more than that.
what i was trying to explain that the refresh rate is limiting the fps so thats how i can test what looks better.
JB
i know what you mean. im being to brief.
if i started q3 up at these settings: 800x600@160hz with vsync on, my fps never drops below 160 because with vsync off id be getting alot more than that.
what i was trying to explain that the refresh rate is limiting the fps so thats how i can test what looks better.
JB
Back on topic - I'd say it depends on the game. One of the keys for smooth running is a consistent framerate. If you're getting a constant 60fps, it looks silky smooth in most games. Constant 30fps does't appear smooth to most people, not in FPS games at any rate.
It also depends what kind of motion you're looking at. In FPS games, you often have to turn around very quickly. So, say you turn around in half a second, if you're getting 60fps that means you are seeing one frame per 6 degrees in your view change (which should be alright). If you're getting only 30fps though, and you turn around in a half second then that's 12 degrees per frame (which can appear a bit "jumpy" since each frame is drastically different). However, do realize that you will be subjected to, respectively 60 or 30 of these frames per second, which is a lot.
In movies, it's a whole other ballgame - they're shown in a darkened room so the image can burn in on your retinas easier and longer. They run at 24fps but use motion blur. Also, they often don't have the insanely fast view changes of FPS games.
Personally, I think in gaming, 60fps and above is the sweet spot (60-100 fps). Anything above 100fps is well into the bragging rights territory.
However, do realize that when you have a high FPS, often your minimums are higher too, so even if a game gets 100fps average, it might dip down to 30fps. While if you're cranking up the eye candy you might be getting a 60fps average, but your minimum is 10-15 fps.
There are a lot of factors involved in a smooth framerate. Just like with colours though, there is a point where one setting (ie higher fps) is indistinguishable from another. Unlike colour, we can't pinpoint exactly where it is. Plus, it depends on the person. People who are more accustomed to fast-moving images (ie. gamers) can often detect differences in a higher framerate than people who aren't used to this kind of motion.
It also depends what kind of motion you're looking at. In FPS games, you often have to turn around very quickly. So, say you turn around in half a second, if you're getting 60fps that means you are seeing one frame per 6 degrees in your view change (which should be alright). If you're getting only 30fps though, and you turn around in a half second then that's 12 degrees per frame (which can appear a bit "jumpy" since each frame is drastically different). However, do realize that you will be subjected to, respectively 60 or 30 of these frames per second, which is a lot.
In movies, it's a whole other ballgame - they're shown in a darkened room so the image can burn in on your retinas easier and longer. They run at 24fps but use motion blur. Also, they often don't have the insanely fast view changes of FPS games.
Personally, I think in gaming, 60fps and above is the sweet spot (60-100 fps). Anything above 100fps is well into the bragging rights territory.
However, do realize that when you have a high FPS, often your minimums are higher too, so even if a game gets 100fps average, it might dip down to 30fps. While if you're cranking up the eye candy you might be getting a 60fps average, but your minimum is 10-15 fps.
There are a lot of factors involved in a smooth framerate. Just like with colours though, there is a point where one setting (ie higher fps) is indistinguishable from another. Unlike colour, we can't pinpoint exactly where it is. Plus, it depends on the person. People who are more accustomed to fast-moving images (ie. gamers) can often detect differences in a higher framerate than people who aren't used to this kind of motion.
Schadenfroh
Elite Member
- Mar 8, 2003
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iD thinks 60 is enough so to speak. I like a nice whole 100fps 
, because you can't guarentee a stable fps..
, because you can't guarentee a stable fps..Films have motion blurring so at a lesser frame rate than a video game they look smoother.
On a film running at only 24 or 30 fps, each frame is essentially a picture or snap-shot taken at some shutter speed, say 1/1000sec. During that 1/1000 sec (or whatever shutter speed is being used) if an object is moving, it will move slightly across the frame during that small time frame and ... ?blur? ... slightly - a kind of ?stretching? the image out - and so will the next frame and so on. The term is called motion-blurring and it helps blend each subsequent frame in a film to the next. On a film of only even 24 fps this motion blurring will smooth out the action and the faster the motion the more the blurring effect. That?s why motion on a film can look quite smooth even at a low frame rate.
On a video game there is no motion blurring to smooth the gap out between each frame rendered so you need a much higher frame rate too smooth the gaps in-between each frame if something is moving across the screen.
On a film running at only 24 or 30 fps, each frame is essentially a picture or snap-shot taken at some shutter speed, say 1/1000sec. During that 1/1000 sec (or whatever shutter speed is being used) if an object is moving, it will move slightly across the frame during that small time frame and ... ?blur? ... slightly - a kind of ?stretching? the image out - and so will the next frame and so on. The term is called motion-blurring and it helps blend each subsequent frame in a film to the next. On a film of only even 24 fps this motion blurring will smooth out the action and the faster the motion the more the blurring effect. That?s why motion on a film can look quite smooth even at a low frame rate.
On a video game there is no motion blurring to smooth the gap out between each frame rendered so you need a much higher frame rate too smooth the gaps in-between each frame if something is moving across the screen.
yup, GTA3 uses the same effect to *trick* you
that game is limited to 30 FPS, but with the blurring effect, u don't notice.I absolutely hate the blur effect of PS2. It is the most annoying thing in the world. OOO look everything is blurry.
I recommend 85fps@85Hz w/VSync to be the smoothest.
Refresh Rate has a direct link to fram rate. Whatever refresh rate appears smooth to you (on CRTs you can see this), is the frame rate that will appear the smoothest, with frame rates higher than that appearing only slightly smoother. The refresh rate smoothest to me is 85Hz where I notice no flickering at all.
Enabling Vsync will get you better picture quality as it resists image tearing and other nasty bits, so 85 would be your frame rate cap. Now don't get greedy, setting your refresh rate too high will cause Image quality to degrade. That is another reason why I think 85Hz is a decent refresh rate.
As far as the answer to how many frames the human eye can see, it is very unknown. I believe its somewhere from 1000 to infinite.
I recommend 85fps@85Hz w/VSync to be the smoothest.
Refresh Rate has a direct link to fram rate. Whatever refresh rate appears smooth to you (on CRTs you can see this), is the frame rate that will appear the smoothest, with frame rates higher than that appearing only slightly smoother. The refresh rate smoothest to me is 85Hz where I notice no flickering at all.
Enabling Vsync will get you better picture quality as it resists image tearing and other nasty bits, so 85 would be your frame rate cap. Now don't get greedy, setting your refresh rate too high will cause Image quality to degrade. That is another reason why I think 85Hz is a decent refresh rate.
As far as the answer to how many frames the human eye can see, it is very unknown. I believe its somewhere from 1000 to infinite.
Is a rehash of a rehash of a rehash really necessary? If you're interested in the thread title question, just search for VIAN's thread with a similar name. He posted it a few weeks (months?) ago, and it covered pretty much all the bases.
lets not forget we may not be able to tell the difference between 60 fps and 200 fps but our subconscious might be able to pick it up.
Thats how they did those subconscious advertisements in movie houses a couple of thousand years ago (subliminal messages)
PS I have my refresh rate set to 85mhz so at least my monitor can keep up with the frame change up to at least 85fps
Thats how they did those subconscious advertisements in movie houses a couple of thousand years ago (subliminal messages)
PS I have my refresh rate set to 85mhz so at least my monitor can keep up with the frame change up to at least 85fps
If something is moving at constant 30fps then that is what the human eye needs to see something as smooth. Even if the frame rate is higher it will still be only moving at the same speed as the constant 30fps would. Therefore anything higher is only psychologically noticeable, not physical. Simply put, you only THINK it's smoother because you KNOW it's running at a higher FPS. That's my thought anyway, feel free to debate.:beer:
Mercenary for higher linked a very interesting page. But he is wrong about theater frame rates, it's 24fps, which makes me question if he is wrong on other things. I will take a closer look at it later. But he seems to have good ideas.
Also there is better response to online playing at higher refresh/frame rates.
Check link out.
Also there is better response to online playing at higher refresh/frame rates.
Check link out.
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