Snatchface, dude, my 1.6A is running at 2133 right now and the temp is 18C!! This sucker runs quiet and stable and performs crazy fast for <$150USD! No more putting up with that VIA bullcrap, having to experiment with a zillion drivers and fooling around with different PCI cards and slots and always praying that it will work every time you change something in your system. Freedom at last!
3 words... infinite loop bug...
I gave AMD/VIA/NVIDIA and whoever else is involved 2 generations of my business, a 1.2G KT133a, and 1.533XP KT266a... Don't say I never learn...
I have no more infinite loop problems with my 2.0G Northwood, and 845D combo...
I gave AMD/VIA/NVIDIA and whoever else is involved 2 generations of my business, a 1.2G KT133a, and 1.533XP KT266a... Don't say I never learn...
I have no more infinite loop problems with my 2.0G Northwood, and 845D combo...
infinite loop eh? you poor guys.. i've never experienced that and every single system i build for use or for sale is based usually on a Duron or T-Bird and i've never had any problems with any. they all use KT133A up until now and i am beginning to use KT266A for sale computers, internal computers for the most part at my work are made with Intel parts, but my 2 desktops are both 900 Athlons and they run just the same as all the others if not better...
I never had infinite loop problems with 2D apps... Allways 3D... How much to do you game at work?
When you look at the P4 Northwood now and you are not overclocking, an AMD is the best price/performance going, but when overclocking comes in and you can best the AMD in overclocks with the P4 Northwood and with little effort or a hefty hsf, the Intel will come out on top in price/performance(at least with the 1.6A since the 1.8A is about $50 more).
This is just the limbo period until AMD catches up with their new Tbred and the .13 micron process. I'm really anxious to see the state of things after Barton or even Tbred comes out. If AMD still pits their cpus then it should still be a bit in Intel's favor since it's so hard to remove the multiplyer lock "safely" with the XP now, and you need to unlock the chip to get the potential out of the cpu since the multiplyer is so low on these 133fsb cpus(ie. 11.5 x 133 for an 1.53Ghz AMD cpu vs. 16 x 100 for a P4 1.6A). It would be nice to use a higher multiplyer with the AMD (such as 14 x 133 = 1862Mhz from an XP 1.53Ghz) and do a modest fsb overclock to get a sweet speed, unlike the P4 which just has to raise the fsb now to get the sweet speeds since the multiplyer is so high(16 x 133 = 2128Mhz from a P4 1.6A). I don't expect AMD to not include the pits on the L1's, even though the pics of the Tbred I've seen so far haven't had them, probably because they are just "Engineering samples". Nevertheless, it will be interesting to see what the story will be in about 2-3 months.
This is just the limbo period until AMD catches up with their new Tbred and the .13 micron process. I'm really anxious to see the state of things after Barton or even Tbred comes out. If AMD still pits their cpus then it should still be a bit in Intel's favor since it's so hard to remove the multiplyer lock "safely" with the XP now, and you need to unlock the chip to get the potential out of the cpu since the multiplyer is so low on these 133fsb cpus(ie. 11.5 x 133 for an 1.53Ghz AMD cpu vs. 16 x 100 for a P4 1.6A). It would be nice to use a higher multiplyer with the AMD (such as 14 x 133 = 1862Mhz from an XP 1.53Ghz) and do a modest fsb overclock to get a sweet speed, unlike the P4 which just has to raise the fsb now to get the sweet speeds since the multiplyer is so high(16 x 133 = 2128Mhz from a P4 1.6A). I don't expect AMD to not include the pits on the L1's, even though the pics of the Tbred I've seen so far haven't had them, probably because they are just "Engineering samples". Nevertheless, it will be interesting to see what the story will be in about 2-3 months.
not that often, however on lunches i do play Rocket Arena 3
never had a reboot at all.. only with my Asus P3B-F (PIII system) and Asus P5A (K6 system)
they rebooted occasionally for no reason, but any of my newer VIA systems have never ever done this, they run forever without restarting (i restart when i install something or play with hardware) Rock Solid.
never had a reboot at all.. only with my Asus P3B-F (PIII system) and Asus P5A (K6 system)
they rebooted occasionally for no reason, but any of my newer VIA systems have never ever done this, they run forever without restarting (i restart when i install something or play with hardware) Rock Solid.
S-Face-- I agree with you, the overclocked P4 is probably no better than AMD. As I see it they are taking a cool running, stable, Intel chipset processor and overclocking it to make it less stable, hotter and now many are using a non-Intel chipset motherboard. You have duplicated all the things you hated about the AMD. I have watched the P4 Northwood from the beginning--All the reviewers loved the Gigabyte and MSI boards, with very few good reviews of the Asus, probably because of the lack of RAID, etc. When problems appeared, they switched to Asus P4B266, more issues appeared. Then they switched to the Asus P4s333. Who's next. Overclocking is great--if you can keep the PCI, AGP, etc within specifications. Duvie,Strawberrymom and others have done a lot of hardware switching looking for the "cheap" answer. Have you found it?? Don't get me wrong--all this can be fun if when you are done your computer works 100%. R.
Here's a good system setup.
TH7II-Raid
2X128/256 Samsung PC800
P4 1.6A
If you can't get PC1066 then drop down to 3X and you still essentially have PC800. Better performance than 133 DDR with PC1066, bout the same with PC800. Won't break the bank.
TH7II-Raid
2X128/256 Samsung PC800
P4 1.6A
If you can't get PC1066 then drop down to 3X and you still essentially have PC800. Better performance than 133 DDR with PC1066, bout the same with PC800. Won't break the bank.
oops on the prvious reply
AMD Vs Intel
All i have to say is Intel = stability stability stability
if you enjoy crashing, bugs, and constantly tweaking go AMD
if you want to actually USE your PC go Intel.
AMD Vs Intel
All i have to say is Intel = stability stability stability
if you enjoy crashing, bugs, and constantly tweaking go AMD
if you want to actually USE your PC go Intel.
After 5 different AMD systems, I finally went back to Intel and a Northwood for three reasons:
1. High overclocking potential
2. DDR RAM support (FINALLY)
3. Much quieter cooling
I never experienced any stability issues with any of the AMD CPU's I have had. I have built a number of servers here at work based on AMD Tbirds, and they have been up for months with no problems.
Those three reasons are the ONLY reasons I went with an Intel system
1. High overclocking potential
2. DDR RAM support (FINALLY)
3. Much quieter cooling
I never experienced any stability issues with any of the AMD CPU's I have had. I have built a number of servers here at work based on AMD Tbirds, and they have been up for months with no problems.
Those three reasons are the ONLY reasons I went with an Intel system
<< All i have to say is Intel = stability stability stability
if you enjoy crashing, bugs, and constantly tweaking go AMD
if you want to actually USE your PC go Intel. >>
People that say this are really beginning to get on my fking nerves.. there is nothing unstable about AMD and if you are having problems it's either your own damn fault, or your hardware is defective. to this day i still have not experienced a crash or glitch that made me get upset at my AMD/VIA system as it is rock stable, reliable, and fast... i'm running an Asus TUSL2-C/P3 1000 here with Windows XP on it, and either XP is a pile of dung, or this system just sucks, but i get error reports and crashes and glitches all the time, and yes, it is setup right, it just isn't as good as it should be... that could be XP's fault, but the point is, this machine is based on Intel and it's not nearly as nice to work on as my AMD rigs..
I'd just like to say that anybody saying that AMD's are glitchy or anything remotely close to that, obviously does not know what the hell they're talking about. period.
I'd just like to say that anybody saying that AMD's are glitchy or anything remotely close to that, obviously does not know what the hell they're talking about. period.
I think the point is that AMD spent about a year enjoying a massive advantage in the price/performance stakes and gained a lot of fans because of good overclocking results. Intel lagged behind with an expensive P4 which lost out in most benchmarks and didn't overclock well.
Suddenly Intel release an excellent CPU which at 1.6 has a great price/performance ratio before overclocking and will reach insane clock speeds without serious cooling.
It's hard for the AMD types (Myself included) to have all the awards snatched by intel (raw speed, overclockability and price/performance) and to sit here twiddling our thumbs until AMD get off their collective butts and get a .13 micron athlon out which can stand up to northwood.
Suddenly Intel release an excellent CPU which at 1.6 has a great price/performance ratio before overclocking and will reach insane clock speeds without serious cooling.
It's hard for the AMD types (Myself included) to have all the awards snatched by intel (raw speed, overclockability and price/performance) and to sit here twiddling our thumbs until AMD get off their collective butts and get a .13 micron athlon out which can stand up to northwood.
What's funny to me is it takes an Intel chip clocked about 600mhz higher than an AMD chip to beat it.
It's like putting a blower on a Pinto so you can beat a mustang.
AMD is still the greatest.
It's like putting a blower on a Pinto so you can beat a mustang.
AMD is still the greatest.
<< What's funny to me is it takes an Intel chip clocked about 600mhz higher than an AMD chip to beat it.
It's like putting a blower on a Pinto so you can beat a mustang.
AMD is still the greatest. >>
That's NOT funny. Intel designed P4 that way, live with it.
I dont think Intel has left AMD in the dust, but has made a serious blow to their AXP CPU. However the AXP is nothing more than a suped up TBird correct? Not a particularly level playing flied but the CPU market never has been.
AMD has held the crown for a while and has now handed it back to Intel while AMD release their next processor.
I have built many AMD rigs from 650 Durons to a XP1800+, none have had any problems to my knowledge. People that blame the hardware or a certain brand ether get all the lemons or cant work computers properly. (Unless the product really does suck?)
AMD has held the crown for a while and has now handed it back to Intel while AMD release their next processor.
I have built many AMD rigs from 650 Durons to a XP1800+, none have had any problems to my knowledge. People that blame the hardware or a certain brand ether get all the lemons or cant work computers properly. (Unless the product really does suck?)
This whole debate will come down to Clawhammer. Intel will hold the crown as long as Northwood is competing with AXP/Tbred... I just don't think AMD can keep up with that ancient core anymore. If AMD steps it up and the Hammers lay down some smack, things will get really interesting, but until then, people have to live with the fact that Northwood is king.
Kramer
Kramer
What's funny to me is it takes an Intel chip clocked about 600mhz higher than an AMD chip to beat it.
It's like putting a blower on a Pinto so you can beat a mustang.
WRONG.
it's like putting a blower in a Lincoln so that you can beat a mustang.
the lincoln has always had some advantages over the AMD chip. they just weren't apparent to the type of crowd that would wanna buy a mustang. now w/ this BLOWER you get all the advantages of the Lincoln and can still blow away the Mustang.
It's like putting a blower on a Pinto so you can beat a mustang.
WRONG.
it's like putting a blower in a Lincoln so that you can beat a mustang.
the lincoln has always had some advantages over the AMD chip. they just weren't apparent to the type of crowd that would wanna buy a mustang. now w/ this BLOWER you get all the advantages of the Lincoln and can still blow away the Mustang.
<< As I see it they are taking a cool running, stable, Intel chipset processor and overclocking it to make it less stable, hotter and now many are using a non-Intel chipset motherboard. >>
Well actually the point of this is that you can o/c it without any more heat and without stability problems. Notice that a majority of the people are just using the stock heatsink and fan.
By raising the fsb from 100 to 133 everything runs at default speed.
Although I have mine at 144 fsb which puts the the agp and pci out of spec, it hasn't effected anything so far.
What's amazing is my temperatures are not any different than when it runs at 100fsb.
Couple that with the 845 chipset, which Anand has stated as being the most stable ever, and you can't go wrong.
What impresses me most about the P4 is its cool temps. My Delta screamer is hard to deal with. Still, my 1600+ / 8KHA+ overclocked to a 150 MHz FSB (1583) will be fine for a while and I'm hoping there will be more CPUs down the road to plug in.
So, if I were buying a new rig, then I might consider the P4 1.6A setup, but I think the people dropping their AMD rigs for the P4 are crazy. Sure, the "50%" overclock looks impressive, but it's only a 50% increase when compared to other P4s and not a 50% increase when compared to an AMD chip.
So, if I were buying a new rig, then I might consider the P4 1.6A setup, but I think the people dropping their AMD rigs for the P4 are crazy. Sure, the "50%" overclock looks impressive, but it's only a 50% increase when compared to other P4s and not a 50% increase when compared to an AMD chip.
- Oct 31, 1999
- 4,741
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Well based on this discussion i definitely think that if I was building a new system right now it would probably be a 1.6A overclocked. However, I see no real compelling reason to upgrade from any Athlon >1.2 Ghz system to a Northwood at this time. Guess I'll stick with my plan of waiting for Serial ATA and see what's out by then.
Hey lets just all wait for Thoroughbred! AMD is reportedly going back to 512k cache and there is even a small possibility for 333mhz bus. If amd went to the 333mhz bus then the AthlonXP or whatever they call it would dominate Northwood ( already pretty much does ). We already know that the Athlon will be at .13 micron and we know that they havent decided on the bus or cache size. I think they might move up the Athlon bus since the Duron will move up to the 266 bus with its .13 micron core as shown on the recent AMD roadmap. Now the Athlon Bus or cache move is not on the roadmap, but wouldnt that be great if they did bump up the cache and fsb.
With the Hammer sampling I think AMD need to get on the ball and release the new Athlon and Duron cores as Hammer is meant to replace the Athlon eventually.
With the Hammer sampling I think AMD need to get on the ball and release the new Athlon and Duron cores as Hammer is meant to replace the Athlon eventually.
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