Whats the difference between using the "use overlays" or "use high quality mode" in the WMP 10 video mixing renderer?

[xMax]

I have no idea what these are for, nor can i find any key information that clearly explains what the difference between the two is.

Any info or links would be nice.

 

[rbV5]

High Quality mode uses D3D to render video, Overlay uses DirectDraw.

Overlay Mixer

VMR9

 

[xMax]

I tried reading up on those links that you gave me but quickly got overloaded with confusion. Those links lead to seriously technical professional information that is completely beyond my comprehension. So ill put it this way; For playing out a run length encoded (RLE) AVI animation from my harddisk or a ramdrive, would i be better off with overlay, high quality mode, or just the video mixing renderer with neither overlay or high quality mode enabled. I know i cant disable the video mixing renderer since it leads to screen tearing.

note: the avi animations are all played out in full screen mode with the maximum resolution (1600x1200).

Thanks

Max

 

[L00PY]

A bit less technical from Wikipedia:

[O]riginally the way to play video was to use the Video Renderer filter. This drew the images using DirectDraw, but could also fall back to GDI drawing in some circumstances. One problem with it was limited access to the window: Video for Windows had been plagued with deadlocks caused by applications incorrect use of the video window, so in the first DirectShow releases, the handle to the playback window was hidden from applications. This of course made it very difficult for sophisticated applications to handle Windows messages, such as WM_SETCURSOR. There was also no reliable way to draw caption text or graphics on top of the video.

Windows XP introduced a new filter called VMR7 (Abbreviation for "Video Mixing Renderer 7", sometimes just referred to as plain VMR). The 7 was because this VMR used only DirectDraw version 7 to render the video, and did not have the option to use GDI drawing. The main new feature of VMR-7 was the ability to mix multiple streams and graphics, so allowing applications to draw text and graphics over the video. VMR7 also featured a "windowless mode" which fixed the problems with access to the window handle; however it required a bit of extra initialization code. For non-technical reasons, it was released only on Windows XP.

In DirectX 9, Microsoft released yet another renderer, dubbed VMR9. This version depends on DirectX9-style graphics (a.k.a. Direct3D). Unlike the VMR7, it also would work on any system that supported DirectX9, provided that the graphics adapter could support the required Direct3D modes. However, this caused even futher splintering on an already extremely involved API.

VMR9 is just the latest MS way of showing video. It uses DirectX 9, which older video cards may not support. Overlay is less intensive and allows for less bells and whistles. VMR9 is the other way around. Of course if you don't have any bottlenecks and don't care about special features, it doesn't make a difference.

 

[xtknight]

VMR9 renderless would lag more than VMR9 windowless or Overlay. I say you should just use Overlay unless you have a reason to use VMR.

With VMR9 mode it requires the graphics card to support DirectX9 (could do it through ref I guess), and it draws the video onto a 3D surface. This surface can be manipulated just like a plane in a game with renderless mode. This is not possible with Overlay. I think VMR7 just allowed combining streams (I guess some rudimentary effects also but no D3D pixel shader support). Also I think WMP uses windowless mode (when VMR selected), so only streams can be combined, but no 3D manipulation.

VMR7-9 make multiple streams, mouse shadows, print screen, and transparent fading work unlike Overlay but I don't see any other advantage they'd give to you when under Windows Media Player.

 

[xMax]

Wow. Thats complicated ****. I still dont understand why everybody refers to VMR and Overlay as two seperate things. That is, in WMP 10, in the advanced performance tab, there is the video mixing renderer (VMR) tab, which can be selected or not selected. if selected, it activates the options to use overlay, high quality mode, or neither. Another words, overlay and high quality modes are the two available options within VMR, which means that overlay is VMR. So that if i turned off VMR, then i cant use overlay.

This is absolutely impossible for any person with no real knowledge of computers to comprehend. And with that said, how in gods name do the masses figure out what settings to use. Its absurd to understand the complete design, integration, compatibitliy and history of these windows image displaying programs.

The only thing im certain about right now is that the legacy video rendering system is disabled when VMR is enabled, and since im using VMR, then all legacy settings can be ommitted. And with all other settings understood, with the excpetion of video smoothing, which i think only applies to internet streaming media, then all i need to know is wether to check video overlay, high quality mode, or neither.

And im not even sure if any are even different. I just have to make sure that its right so that im prepared for a presentation conflict.

Overlay is only for the so called sprites, which really adds mixes images. But i think that its got more involvement than just that. Thats why i cant figure out if to use it or not.

Anyways, i think ill just stick with overlay.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: xMax
Wow. Thats complicated ****. I still dont understand why everybody refers to VMR and Overlay as two seperate things. That is, in WMP 10, in the advanced performance tab, there is the video mixing renderer (VMR) tab, which can be selected or not selected. if selected, it activates the options to use overlay, high quality mode, or neither. Another words, overlay and high quality modes are the two available options within VMR, which means that overlay is VMR. So that if i turned off VMR, then i cant use overlay.

This is absolutely impossible for any person with no real knowledge of computers to comprehend. And with that said, how in gods name do the masses figure out what settings to use. Its absurd to understand the complete design, integration, compatibitliy and history of these windows image displaying programs.

The only thing im certain about right now is that the legacy video rendering system is disabled when VMR is enabled, and since im using VMR, then all legacy settings can be ommitted. And with all other settings understood, with the excpetion of video smoothing, which i think only applies to internet streaming media, then all i need to know is wether to check video overlay, high quality mode, or neither.

And im not even sure if any are even different. I just have to make sure that its right so that im prepared for a presentation conflict.

Overlay is only for the so called sprites, which really adds mixes images. But i think that its got more involvement than just that. Thats why i cant figure out if to use it or not.

Anyways, i think ill just stick with overlay.

There's 4 combos. Video mixing renderer/high quality, video mixing renderer/overlay, video mixing renderer/nothing?, and all disabled. Not sure what they all do to be honest. All I know is VMR7, VMR9, and Overlay. In WMP terms I think you want video mixing renderer checked but also use Overlay. If you disable it all I think it just uses the Windows GDI (graphical device interface). It's impossible for me to find out without official documentation from Microsoft or if I disassembled it.

Overlay has no specific meaning really. Only with VMR mode can text be overlayed on to a 3D video surface. Then with Overlay mode, it can't, lol. The video is just being overlayed onto the screen, that's all Overlay mode means. Maybe "use overlay" under video mixing renderer means VMR7. I don't know exactly what VMR7 does.

The masses just don't worry about any of it (and can usually get away with that so they really have no desire to learn it either).

I'll see if I can find out by looking at WMP 10's filter graph.

lol rbV5, I know you'll be pissed at how many times I edited this post.

 

[rbV5]

So ill put it this way; For playing out a run length encoded (RLE) AVI animation from my harddisk or a ramdrive, would i be better off with overlay, high quality mode, or just the video mixing renderer with neither overlay or high quality mode enabled. I know i cant disable the video mixing renderer since it leads to screen tearing.

The best renderer for your particular use is by trying the different rendering modes.

 

[xtknight]

VMR/high quality: VMR9. "VMR Input0", "VMR Input1", "VMR Input2"; memory for three streams allocated. Can screenshot.
VMR/use overlays: Overlay mode. "VMR Input0"; memory for one stream allocated. Cannot screenshot.
VMR/nothing: Probably VMR7. "VMR Input0"; memory for one stream allocated. Can screenshot.
None selected: GDI? "VMR Input0"; memory for one stream allocated. Can Screenshot.

WMP seems to label the Video Renderer input pin VMR regardless of what's selected.

That's all I discovered... Still not sure about anything though. Hope it helps somebody.

 

[xMax]

Thats what ive done. I tried all four combinations and found VMR checked with 'use overlay' checked to produce the best results. All the rest would produce tearing of some sort.

As for understanding them, i think i'll just have to pass on that. So far, i think these are the most complicated 'things' in windows i have faced with respect to proper configuration of a system. I even say things because im not even sure what the right word is. i think its filters or maybe drivers, but in the end its all some form of programs.

The only thing now is to know wether the legacy video renderer is disabled when using VMR with overlay. Ive tried leaving the legacy renderers checked and unchecked as they both produce the same results. I think they are disabled when checking VMR. But the help menus say that when using overlay, the legacy renderers could somehow be used. I have no idea why or how.

So i will look into it and if i cant figure it out, then ill just leave them on. Although im still trying to understand the video smoothing function, which is apparently interpolates low frame rate or low bit rate animations. Personally, thats not what i want. But i also think that video smoothing only applies to streaming media, which of course is real time playback over a network or the internet.

Thats it for now. But thanks for the info guys.

Max