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Whats the difference between these Car Engines?

I

ironk

Senior member
So one has the word "SULEV" stuck at the end. Is it better or worse? Which one is more fuel efficient? BTW, i'll be choosing automatic transmission, not sure if that matters.

The car is a 2005 Hyundai Elantra GLS 4dr sedan. It has those options listed at 'carsdirect.com' under Regionals, link Here.

Thanks.
 
Originally posted by: Mwilding
SULEV

Super-Duper
Underwater
Levitating
Electric
Vehicle
Click to expand...


Hmm, so if something Levitates while Underwater... Is that the same as floating? Or maybe just Not Sinking?
 
Vortex is correct. It stands for Super Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle. These cars usually have additional equipment to clean up the exhaust to meet emissions standards in some parts of the country like California. Cleaner exhaust puts the car in the SULEV category.

edit: Not every SULEV engine has "additional equipment". Some drivetrains are just that efficient that they get placed into these categories. A number of vehicles come standard with SULEV status and don't require the couple hundred dollars worth of parts.
 
Originally posted by: FrankyJunior
Originally posted by: Mwilding
SULEV

Super-Duper
Underwater
Levitating
Electric
Vehicle
Click to expand...


Hmm, so if something Levitates while Underwater... Is that the same as floating? Or maybe just Not Sinking?
Click to expand...
It's multi-purpose. It goes below and above water. What iz ya, ignant?

 
i think if you live in NY or CA they only sell ULEV or SULEV models in that state. otherwise you have a regular "48 state" vehicle as far as emissions go.

AFAIK, ULEV/SULEV models have additional catalytic converters, or other forms of emission control, decreasing performance, while, you guessed it - lowering emissions.
 
Originally posted by: KnightBreed
Vortex is correct. It stands for Super Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle. These cars usually have additional equipment to clean up the exhaust to meet emissions standards in some parts of the country like California. Cleaner exhaust puts the car in the SULEV category.

edit: Not every SULEV engine has "additional equipment". Some drivetrains are just that efficient that they get placed into these categories. A number of vehicles come standard with SULEV status and don't require the couple hundred dollars worth of parts.
Click to expand...
Negative, all SULEV's have "additional equipment", which could be anything from an extra cat to a specially programmed ECU.
 
Originally posted by: Vic
Negative, all SULEV's have "additional equipment", which could be anything from an extra cat to a specially programmed ECU.
Click to expand...
A Civic or Prius Hybrid doesn't need additional equipment to reach SULEV status because of the hybrid drivetrain's inherent efficiency.

My point was, some vehicles require an extra cat to reach SULEV status in certain parts of the country. While other vehicles are already SULEV certified and don't need other equipment to be sold anywhere. A Prius doesn't need anything "additional" because the stock/standard trim is already SULEV (or better) certified.

Using the term "additional equipment" was my fault.
 
Originally posted by: KnightBreed
Originally posted by: Vic
Negative, all SULEV's have "additional equipment", which could be anything from an extra cat to a specially programmed ECU.
Click to expand...
A Civic or Prius Hybrid doesn't need additional equipment to reach SULEV status because of the hybrid drivetrain's inherent efficiency.

My point was, some vehicles require an extra cat to reach SULEV status in certain parts of the country. While other vehicles are already SULEV certified and don't need other equipment to be sold anywhere. A Prius doesn't need anything "additional" because the stock/standard trim is already SULEV (or better) certified.

Using the term "additional equipment" was my fault.
Click to expand...
What does efficiency have to do with emissions?
 
Originally posted by: Howard
What does efficiency have to do with emissions?
Click to expand...
Is this a trick question or am I missing something?😕 An inefficient engine might burn more gasoline or burn it incompletely, releasing more particulates and exhaust into the atmosphere.

A hybrid uses the electric motor and batteries to get equivalent performance to a vehicle with a larger engine. The hybrid drivetrain (edit: correction, I actually the mean the engine/motor/batteries, not "drivetrain") is more efficient at converting the potential energy in the gasoline to kinetic energy to get the vehicle moving, and in the process produces less emissions.
 
Originally posted by: KnightBreed
Originally posted by: Howard
What does efficiency have to do with emissions?
Click to expand...
Is this a trick question or am I missing something?😕 An inefficient engine might burn more gasoline or burn it incompletely, releasing more particulates and exhaust into the atmosphere.

A hybrid uses the electric motor and batteries to get equivalent performance to a vehicle with a larger engine. The hybrid drivetrain is more efficient at converting the potential energy in the gasoline to kinetic energy to get the vehicle moving, and in the process produces less emissions.
Click to expand...
A hybrid drivetrain is no more efficient at transferring power than a regular one.

They aren't using ultra efficient transmissions or anything like that. It's all in the engine. If that's what you mean by drivetrain, then I agree with you, but your wording sounds funny.

It is true that SULEV engines are ultra efficient. They convert as much fuel energy to mechanical energy as possible, which helps reduce emissions by ensuring all the fuel is burned.

So, it does have something to do with it, but I agree that his use of the word "drivetrain" is a little weird. 😉
 
Originally posted by: Eli
So, it does have something to do with it, but I agree that his use of the word "drivetrain" is a little weird. 😉
Click to expand...
Fair enough, incorrect choice of words. Sometimes the brain and mouth don't agree with each other.🙂 I meant engine, electric motor, and battery stack in the context of hybrids. Sorry for the confusion!
 
Originally posted by: KnightBreed
Originally posted by: Eli
So, it does have something to do with it, but I agree that his use of the word "drivetrain" is a little weird. 😉
Click to expand...
Fair enough, incorrect choice of words. Sometimes the brain and mouth don't agree with each other.🙂 I meant engine, electric motor, and battery stack in the context of hybrids. Sorry for the confusion!
Click to expand...
I just don't see how engine efficiency (that is, how much energy you get out of the fuel that you put in) is related to the emission of "bad" gases. Many SULEV vehicles use two catalytic converters or other ancillary systems to achieve the low emissions level.
 
Originally posted by: Howard
Originally posted by: KnightBreed
Originally posted by: Eli
So, it does have something to do with it, but I agree that his use of the word "drivetrain" is a little weird. 😉
Click to expand...
Fair enough, incorrect choice of words. Sometimes the brain and mouth don't agree with each other.🙂 I meant engine, electric motor, and battery stack in the context of hybrids. Sorry for the confusion!
Click to expand...
I just don't see how engine efficiency (that is, how much energy you get out of the fuel that you put in) is related to the emission of "bad" gases. Many SULEV vehicles use two catalytic converters or other ancillary systems to achieve the low emissions level.
Click to expand...
Engines that are inefficient or operating inefficiently generate much more "bad" gasses...
 
Originally posted by: Eli
Originally posted by: Howard
Originally posted by: KnightBreed
Originally posted by: Eli
So, it does have something to do with it, but I agree that his use of the word "drivetrain" is a little weird. 😉
Click to expand...
Fair enough, incorrect choice of words. Sometimes the brain and mouth don't agree with each other.🙂 I meant engine, electric motor, and battery stack in the context of hybrids. Sorry for the confusion!
Click to expand...
I just don't see how engine efficiency (that is, how much energy you get out of the fuel that you put in) is related to the emission of "bad" gases. Many SULEV vehicles use two catalytic converters or other ancillary systems to achieve the low emissions level.
Click to expand...
Engines that are inefficient or operating inefficiently generate much more "bad" gasses...
Click to expand...

Exactly, and on a more efficient engine it requires fewer cats and ancillary systems making it much easier and cheaper to implement.

As a note, nearly all Hondas are ULEV or SULEV when purchased anywhere in the US. It's cheaper to have one line making all the cars then to have to set something special up for CA.
 
Originally posted by: Spikesoldier
i think if you live in NY or CA they only sell ULEV or SULEV models in that state. otherwise you have a regular "48 state" vehicle as far as emissions go.

AFAIK, ULEV/SULEV models have additional catalytic converters, or other forms of emission control, decreasing performance, while, you guessed it - lowering emissions.
Click to expand...

No, my Civic has the SULEV sticker and I'm in Arizona.
 
Originally posted by: Eli
Originally posted by: Howard
Originally posted by: KnightBreed
Originally posted by: Eli
So, it does have something to do with it, but I agree that his use of the word "drivetrain" is a little weird. 😉
Click to expand...
Fair enough, incorrect choice of words. Sometimes the brain and mouth don't agree with each other.🙂 I meant engine, electric motor, and battery stack in the context of hybrids. Sorry for the confusion!
Click to expand...
I just don't see how engine efficiency (that is, how much energy you get out of the fuel that you put in) is related to the emission of "bad" gases. Many SULEV vehicles use two catalytic converters or other ancillary systems to achieve the low emissions level.
Click to expand...
Engines that are inefficient or operating inefficiently generate much more "bad" gasses...
Click to expand...
Maybe you're right. I probably knew that you were, but I just felt like being stubborn. 😉

I'm just going to reason this out: the amount of unburned hydrocarbons decreases with a more complete burn - which supports your point - and the amount of NOx is proportional to EGT, which depends on how fast the burn completes - which again supports your point, because the more heat retained inside the combustion chamber, the higher the efficiency of energy transfer. Particulate matter, which I assume to be mostly carbon, stems from incomplete combustion due to lack of oxygen. Running too rich, which is obviously inefficient, could cause this. Running near the stoichiometric A/F ratio is again more efficient since we waste less fuel. However, it's not just that there has to be enough oxygen, but that the fuel must be well-mixed (completely atomized, ideally), and in an efficient engine, it is. CO is also produced due to lack of oxygen.

You win. 😀
 
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