whats the difference between an automatic and semi automatic firearm?

[Apathetic]

Originally posted by: Lifer
ok, that's what i thought.

so are all automatics illegal to own by a citizen?
is there anything "suckier" than a semi-auto? maybe load, fire, reload, fire, etc.?

You may own a fully automatic weapon if you have a Class 3 Firearms Licence from the ATF.

"Bolt action" would be the next step below semi-automatic. (You manually have to work a bolt to move the next round from the clip to the firing chamber). Below that would be just a single shot weapon (like a musket).

Dave

 

[BuckNaked]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Originally posted by: Lifer
ok, that's what i thought.

so are all automatics illegal to own by a citizen?
is there anything "suckier" than a semi-auto? maybe load, fire, reload, fire, etc.?

All automatics manufactured or imported after 1986 are illegal to transfer to a private citizen, according to federal law. There are exemptions for police officers who are authorized by their employing agency to have an automatic weapon.

Automatics produced or imported before 1986 are perfectly legal for private citizens to own provided that you aren't a 'prohibited' person (e.g. felon) and you register the transfer (pay a $200 tax), according to federal law.

Many states prohibit the possession of machine guns or automatic weapons by civilians, so even if federal law says its ok, state law may prohibit it. Many states do not prohibit the possession of machine guns or automatic weapons by civilians.

There are something like 150,000 machine guns and automatic weapons owned by civilians. I forget the number, but that's a ball park figure.

tcsenter is mostly correct, with the exception of imported Class 3 weapons... Weapons imported prior to 1968 can be transfered, but after the Gun Control Act of 1968, imported Class 3 weapons could no longer be transfered to non-dealers... Those imported after 1968 are called Dealer Samples. All the post 1968 imported transferable weapons such as most MP-5's, UZI's, AK's, as well as a host of others were imported into the country as semi-automatic weapons and then were converted (lawfully) to automatic weapons.

You may own a fully automatic weapon if you have a Class 3 Firearms Licence from the ATF.

Not quite correct, a class 3 license allows you to deal in class 3 weapons, but to own one, you need the purchase of a special tax stamp, and approval of what is called a form 4, from BATF allows you to own a specific class 3 weapon.... You do that for each weapon that you own.

Edit: forgot to add about also getting signed off by local law enforcement....

Dave

 

[Jmmsbnd007]

Originally posted by: Buck_Naked

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Originally posted by: Lifer
ok, that's what i thought.

so are all automatics illegal to own by a citizen?
is there anything "suckier" than a semi-auto? maybe load, fire, reload, fire, etc.?

All automatics manufactured or imported after 1986 are illegal to transfer to a private citizen, according to federal law. There are exemptions for police officers who are authorized by their employing agency to have an automatic weapon.

Automatics produced or imported before 1986 are perfectly legal for private citizens to own provided that you aren't a 'prohibited' person (e.g. felon) and you register the transfer (pay a $200 tax), according to federal law.

Many states prohibit the possession of machine guns or automatic weapons by civilians, so even if federal law says its ok, state law may prohibit it. Many states do not prohibit the possession of machine guns or automatic weapons by civilians.

There are something like 150,000 machine guns and automatic weapons owned by civilians. I forget the number, but that's a ball park figure.

tcsenter is mostly correct, with the exception of imported Class 3 weapons... Weapons imported prior to 1968 can be transfered, but after the Gun Control Act of 1968, imported Class 3 weapons could no longer be transfered to non-dealers... Those imported after 1968 are called Dealer Samples. All the post 1968 imported transferable weapons such as most MP-5's, UZI's, AK's, as well as a host of others were imported into the country as semi-automatic weapons and then were converted (lawfully) to automatic weapons.

You may own a fully automatic weapon if you have a Class 3 Firearms Licence from the ATF.

Not quite correct, a class 3 license allows you to deal in class 3 weapons, but to own one, you need the purchase of a special tax stamp, and approval of what is called a form 4, from BATF allows you to own a specific class 3 weapon.... You do that for each weapon that you own.


Dave

Close enough.

 

[Jmmsbnd007]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: Lifer
whats the difference between an automatic and semi automatic firearm?

The'll get 2 steps closer to you before you finish mowing them down...

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: Lifer
whats the difference between an automatic and semi automatic firearm?

The'll get 2 steps closer to you before you finish mowing them down...

 

[Aquaman]

:Q

Cheers,
Aquaman

 

[BuckNaked]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: Lifer
whats the difference between an automatic and semi automatic firearm?

The'll get 2 steps closer to you before you finish mowing them down...

Not if you know what your doing....

 

[LethalWolfe]

I don't think bolt action rifles are inherently more accurate than semi-automatics (I can't see how the method of chambering a round would increase or impare accuracy but maybe I'm missing something). But I think you might see long distance target shooters using bolt actions because there is no need for speed so the added weight(?), complexity and cost of implimenting a semi-auto loading system is not needed so it's not included.

Lethal

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: Buck_Naked

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: Lifer
whats the difference between an automatic and semi automatic firearm?

The'll get 2 steps closer to you before you finish mowing them down...

Not if you know what your doing....

Two to the chest, one to the head.

- M4H

 

[BuckNaked]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: Buck_Naked

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: Lifer
whats the difference between an automatic and semi automatic firearm?

The'll get 2 steps closer to you before you finish mowing them down...

Not if you know what your doing....

Two to the chest, one to the head.

- M4H

...always leaves 'em good and dead....

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Originally posted by: Lifer
ok, that's what i thought.

so are all automatics illegal to own by a citizen?
is there anything "suckier" than a semi-auto? maybe load, fire, reload, fire, etc.?

All automatics manufactured or imported after 1986 are illegal to transfer to a private citizen, according to federal law. There are exemptions for police officers who are authorized by their employing agency to have an automatic weapon.

Automatics produced or imported before 1986 are perfectly legal for private citizens to own provided that you aren't a 'prohibited' person (e.g. felon) and you register the transfer (pay a $200 tax), according to federal law.

Many states prohibit the possession of machine guns or automatic weapons by civilians, so even if federal law says its ok, state law may prohibit it. Many states do not prohibit the possession of machine guns or automatic weapons by civilians.

There are something like 150,000 machine guns and automatic weapons owned by civilians. I forget the number, but that's a ball park figure.

Federal law supercedes state law.

 

[tcsenter]

Perhaps these competitions require semi autos for other reasons then that they are the most accurate weapons available? I did say target shooters, right? What I had in mind was bench shooting, and I did not mean to imply that other weapons were not used in competion, sorry if that is what you read.

I cited the comment to which I was responding. You stated:

"You will never see a marksman or serious target shooter with a automatic or even semi auto, they trade speed for accuracy, both bolts and lever actrion rifes are more accurate then a semi auto (we won't even mention the accuracy (or lack of) of a full auto!)."

Notice I did not address your claim of accuracy differences, even though the word you're looking for is 'consistency', because it is generally true. I only addressed your 'marksman or serious target shooter' comment, which you now admit was pretty foolish.

Federal law supercedes state law.

Right, where there is federal law. Federal law does not prohibit a civilian from owning a pre-1986 automatic weapon. Many states, however, do prohibit it. In those states, irrespective of the legality according to federal law, those weapons are prohibited by state law.

 

[WhiteKnight77]

Id rather use a semi-auto over full auto anyday. As shown in the video of the Glock 18 the rounds go everywhere. That is the biggest reason that the military changed the M16 to a 3 round burst. If you notice, with the exception of but a few, most notably the M82, sniper rifles are bolt action.

 

[Analog]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

You will never see a marksman or serious target shooter with a automatic or even semi auto, they trade speed for accuracy, both bolts and lever actrion rifes are more accurate then a semi auto (we won't even mention the accuracy (or lack of) of a full auto!).

lol! That's why semi-automatics are required for certain Olympic shooting events. Nope, no "serious" competitors at the Olympics, I'm sure. Rob Latham and Jerry Barnhart, not "serious" target shooters. lol!

The standard target rifle at the National High Power Championships at Camp Perry is the AR15 Service Rifle, which is available in both standard and match configurations. I'm sure none of the participants of the National Championships are "serious" marksman or target shooters, including eight-time National High Power Rifle Champion David Tubb, who won using both bolt-action and semi-automatic high power rifles.

But you know, I'm sure compared to you, Tubb's a novice. lol!

That was just one of those profoundly stupid assertions that make you go 'Wow I'm such a dumbass! What was I thinking?' Sorta like 'No serious musician plays electric guitar or drums, they only play classical instruments like the piano or cello.'

Yeah buddy! You keep repeating that to yourself over and over in the mirror and it might even come true!

right on. I have "competed" at camp perry myself. I use a match grade SS AR-15. The M-1A guys are starting to switch over, which, BTW, is also a semi.

 

[RossGr]

Originally posted by: LethalWolfe
I don't think bolt action rifles are inherently more accurate than semi-automatics (I can't see how the method of chambering a round would increase or impare accuracy but maybe I'm missing something). But I think you might see long distance target shooters using bolt actions because there is no need for speed so the added weight(?), complexity and cost of implimenting a semi-auto loading system is not needed so it's not included.

Lethal

Can you see that the point at which the bullet hits the target depends on the velocith at which it leaves the barrel? Not consider that when you pull the trigger on a semi auto 2 things happen, the expanding gases from the burning powder begin to push the bullet down the barrel AND they push the action mechanism the opposite direction to retract the spent shell and load the next into the chamber. This motion of the action means that the final velocity of the the slug is enteracting with the motion of the action.

Now in a bolt or other manual action the expanding gases from the burning powder need only push the slug down the barrel, it does not activate the action. Thus it has a more consistent velocity out the barrel, thus is "more accurate" or consistent as pointed out by tscenter above.

 

[tnitsuj]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Perhaps these competitions require semi autos for other reasons then that they are the most accurate weapons available? I did say target shooters, right? What I had in mind was bench shooting, and I did not mean to imply that other weapons were not used in competion, sorry if that is what you read.

I cited the comment to which I was responding. You stated:

"You will never see a marksman or serious target shooter with a automatic or even semi auto, they trade speed for accuracy, both bolts and lever actrion rifes are more accurate then a semi auto (we won't even mention the accuracy (or lack of) of a full auto!)."

Notice I did not address your claim of accuracy differences, even though the word you're looking for is 'consistency', because it is generally true. I only addressed your 'marksman or serious target shooter' comment, which you now admit was pretty foolish.

Federal law supercedes state law.

Right, where there is federal law. Federal law does not prohibit a civilian from owning a pre-1986 automatic weapon. Many states, however, do prohibit it. In those states, irrespective of the legality according to federal law, those weapons are prohibited by state law.

It is true that the AR-15 is popular in competition shooting for it's price/outstanding accuracy for the price. 1/2 MOA out of the box for some versions is damn impressive.

However, I doubt that any semi-auto will replace a bolt or lever action rifle for sniper work other than at the level of a designated marksman in a platoon size unit. You just can't compare a semi-auto to the accuracy of a good bolt action for sniper work. I have taken several law enforcement and military sniper courses/schools and that seems to be the general consensus amongst the scout/snipers I have worked with.

 

[Schadenfroh]

my favorite

 

[Demon-Xanth]

How I would rank gun actions on speed:

Full auto
Semi auto
Pump (you still don't have to move your trigger hand)
Single action revolver (you have to pull the hammer back)
Lever (some actions have the trigger fall with the lever)
Bolt (you don't have to move the gun)
Rolling/falling block (more time intensive, but the gun stays still)
Breech
Muzzle loader


Breech loaders are cheap and very reliable, and work well for shotguns. Bolt actions typically shoot pleanty fast for thier target audience, and are easily serviced and made safe (only takes a second to remove the entire bolt).

Edit:
corrected mistake

 

[BigJelly]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
How I would rank gun actions on speed:

Full auto
Semi auto
Pump (you still don't have to move your trigger hand)
Double action revolver (you have to pull the hammer back)
Lever (some actions have the trigger fall with the lever)
Bolt (you don't have to move the gun)
Rolling/falling block (more time intensive, but the gun stays still)
Breech
Muzzle loader


Breech loaders are cheap and very reliable, and work well for shotguns. Bolt actions typically shoot pleanty fast for thier target audience, and are easily serviced and made safe (only takes a second to remove the entire bolt).

I believe you mean single not double. Double action means when you pull the trigger the hammer goes back and fires; hence double action (2 actions from the trigger pull) and single action means the trigger only fires the gun but doesnt pull the hammer back (single action by the trigger).

 

[GoingUp]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
semi auto - pull trigger and fire one bullet, repeat until empty.

automatic - hold trigger down until out of bullets.

Any rifle or shotgun that can hold more than one shell/bullet at a time that is automatically put into the firing chamber by the gun after firing the previous round is a "semi-automatic" rifle.

Nothing to be concerned about, but SERIOUSLY overblown by the press.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

BigJelly:
I was having a hard time remembering which was which on that one. It's been a while. And given a 50/50 chance you'll get it wrong 90% of the time