Whats the difference between a neocon and a regular conservative?
- Thread starter BigPoppa
- Start date
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
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Like the right when they starting using "liberal" like it was a 4 letter word?
C'mon, let's be serious here.
A regular conservative believes in maintaining the status quo. He opposes reform in government. He believes that government should be as small as possible. He believes that government is the problem not the solution. He believes that people and businesses should support themselves, and not look to government for handouts or unfair advantages. He believes that the powers of government should be limited to within the confines of the Constitution, as his own life is limited within the law. He believes in fair, impartial, but swift justice. He believes in keeping government free from corruption. He believes that the government should maintain a balanced budget and avoid debt. He thinks the path to success is to live within his means and be honest in his dealings, playing the tortoise's race to the finish line, and thinks that government should do the same while staying off his back at the same time.
Contrast that with the Bush Administration and all that talk radio and you'll see the difference right quick I imagine.
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
- Feb 10, 2000
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That's just not true, or at least it doesn't provide the complete picture.
Neoconservatism is, in my view, a radical manifestation of conservatism that is more akin to imperialism than anything else. IMO it is essentially an effort to leverage American military and economic might in favor of a radically pro-Israel agenda.
I commend this editorial, from the American Conservative, as a conservative debunking of modern neoconservatism. I was not alive for McCarthyism, so from my perspective neoconservatism is the most harmful modern American political movement.
Here is a brief neoconservative manifesto by the father of neoconservatism, Irving Kristol.
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
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I think you will find much more tolerance on the right side here than you do the left.
Hell I've watched the left here eat their own because they dared speak out against some talking point.
[/quote]
I beg to differ. I don't want to name names, but I can think of at least five conservative voices here that are, in my view, more intolerant and obstreperous than any liberal on this board. I do NOT include you as one of those people by any means.
shiner
Lifer
- Jul 18, 2000
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I beg to differ. I don't want to name names, but I can think of at least five conservative voices here that are, in my view, more intolerant and obstreperous than any liberal on this board. I do NOT include you as one of those people by any means.[/quote]Oh there is no doubt that there are a couple of right wingers on here who screech louder than anyone else....but as a whole the left here....and I mean the far left....is much more intolerant than the right.
Read around HERE for a historical perspective on neoconservativism and PNAC.
Check out the signatures at PNAC's Statememt of Principles.
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
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IMO there are few if any representatives of the "far left," and they don't hold a candle to any of several neoconservatives when it comes to being snide, belittling trolls.
Interestingly, in the 9 or so months I have frequented P&N, we have seen literally dozens of outrageous right-wing trolls come and go (see my sig for a recent example), while I can only think of a very few liberal trolls, period.
None of that is meant to defend trolling on either side, but in my observation most of the nastiness has been on the right side of the aisle.
I haven't been around that long but from what I've seen there's some serious left-wing intolerance around here. Have all the obnoxious right-wingers left?? Because I just don't see it.
Oh there is no doubt that there are a couple of right wingers on here who screech louder than anyone else....but as a whole the left here....and I mean the far left....is much more intolerant than the right.
[/quote]
From what I've read around here the 'left' supports their ideas with facts which the 'right' reacts to by taking cheap shots.
To me, I consider a person a neocon when they are:
A) They utilize their personal religious beliefs in their equation for how, what, and why government should be or do and not do or not be
B) They support invasion of soverign nations with out provication or the support of a majority of dominant nations in the world community, even if such an act is widely unsupported and even opposed forcefully in the larger international community
C) Single mindedness in the conservative ideology. The refusal to see all perspectives of the issue with an open mind and open heart.
These are my criteria for a neocon, someone elses definition may differ and this is one of the problems with labels in general. As a "liberal", as the conservaties and neocons here will call me after this, I feel the presence or absence of any of these qualities, in my mind at least, seperate the conservaties from the neocons. Personally I have few if any problems with the conservative principles and can be accused of supporting them from time to time when I feel they are best for the country. When a conservative candidate or official starts to embody any the above mentioned quailities and then starts to loose the ability to seperate professional responsibility to thier electorate from thier own personal beliefs and ideology then they become, in my eyes, a neocon. That is my rational,but left leaning or even right leaning persons in a political perspective may all have different qualities and attributes that determine how, when, why, and to whom this label should be applied.
Edit: Spell check. Added a quality and reson I use neocon, just to be honest and open.
A) They utilize their personal religious beliefs in their equation for how, what, and why government should be or do and not do or not be
B) They support invasion of soverign nations with out provication or the support of a majority of dominant nations in the world community, even if such an act is widely unsupported and even opposed forcefully in the larger international community
C) Single mindedness in the conservative ideology. The refusal to see all perspectives of the issue with an open mind and open heart.
These are my criteria for a neocon, someone elses definition may differ and this is one of the problems with labels in general. As a "liberal", as the conservaties and neocons here will call me after this, I feel the presence or absence of any of these qualities, in my mind at least, seperate the conservaties from the neocons. Personally I have few if any problems with the conservative principles and can be accused of supporting them from time to time when I feel they are best for the country. When a conservative candidate or official starts to embody any the above mentioned quailities and then starts to loose the ability to seperate professional responsibility to thier electorate from thier own personal beliefs and ideology then they become, in my eyes, a neocon. That is my rational,but left leaning or even right leaning persons in a political perspective may all have different qualities and attributes that determine how, when, why, and to whom this label should be applied.
Edit: Spell check. Added a quality and reson I use neocon, just to be honest and open.
No, I label a person a neocon when they are so closed minded in their conservative beliefs during a discussion or ddebate they refuse to at least try to see both sides of the argument with equal and honest compassion.
OMFG!!! How could lordtyranus say that! WTF!
No that is a mark of neoconservatism to me IMO. Just a general sense of uncaring and callousness towards humanity.
From my perspective I can see it coming from both sides at times. But it really depends on the poster and their experience and political savvy.
From what I've read around here the 'left' supports their ideas with facts which the 'right' reacts to by taking cheap shots.
[/quote]
Seconded. Seen that with Liberal posts and I have seen in in posts initiated by conservative leaning members. Where one side posts with facts and the other scoffs and refuses to discuss it or talks around it instead of facing them and trying to be open minded.
I learned yesterday that my beliefs can be construed as neoconservatism (using a more standard definition though, not yours). I happen to be adamantly against abortion AND the death penalty.
I now sit and wait for someone to find a way to spin that into "a general sense of uncaring and callousness towards humanity". And spare me the slandering of my faith.
PingSpike
Lifer
- Feb 25, 2004
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To be fair, not all of the conservatives on this board employ that tactic. But the exceptions to this rule seem more rare every day. There are also a handful of liberals that do it as well.
Frankly, I think anyone who feels they can view any issue in black or white is a moron.
Hmmm, he asks about the differences between conservatives and neoconservatives you use it as an opportunity to bash lefties...
I'm sorry that my belief system interferes with my, umm... beliefs. Seems like a cop out argument saying that religion shouldn't be involved in how I believe. My religion states that the death penalty is appropriate in some crimes. My religion states that government and religion should peacefully co-exist. There are many aspects of religious belief that influence my political views.
It likewise to me seems foolish that our nation should behave at the behest of the rest of the world. Acting in such way removes the 'sovereign' from the equation. We are a part of the world community, but we are not beholden to it. The believe that we should act in accordance with the world majority is akin to believing we should be herded sheep.
Single mindedness is not a bad thing. The ability to stick to something is not a bad thing. When confronted with a new issue, look at all perspectives. Then chose your position and make a stand, don't change your morals just because the opinion is unpopular. What would have happened if Lincoln, who fought the most unpopular war this nation has ever been in, had not been single minded?
That being said, neocon is a label just like liberal. Both are meaningless slander.
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