What's the cheapest, fastest way to get back into WoW?

[CKent]

Originally posted by: mwmorph
Raids are easier. It's no longer Naxx or Sunwell hard so more people can get into it. They're not "easy", you'll still wipe but it's no longer agonizingly difficult like the Sunwell was. Heroics are a challenge.

As for your complaint that Arena gear ruins BGs, well I mean take any RPG game, the more effort and the better you get at a game, the better gear you are rewarded with. Arena is more difficult than BGs to be successful so the superior players get superior equipment. That's like saying I dont like how a a player that has Heroic Udular on farm status has better gear than me when I only do Naxx 10 man non heroics.

Every game has a gear progression curve from Battlefield 2 to WoW, on the basis that you should be awarded for the time and effort you spend playing and the skill you accrue along the way.

I loved that blistering difficulty. I hated that every high end guild seemed to have about half capable players, but the other half were just friends of members or social engineers with only rudimentary skill (women are the worst in this regard :|). After getting past a learning curve and dealing with the occasional wipe due to bad luck, the rare fuckup or disconnect(s), the first half, if each were cloned, could rip through very hard content if not anchored back by the second half. Only a tiny number of guilds ever manage to solve that problem. My last guild broke up after killing Illidan and a week of attempts on Kalec'gos.

FPS games offer free and much more balanced deathmatches, it's absurd to have them in an MMORPG, and more absurd to have them be the end-all, be-all of the game. On top of creating terribly pitched matchups in BGs, arenas give gear so easily that, even though pvp gear =/= pvp gear, it makes pve seem like a huge drag and a lot of work for the same reward you could get with a few weeks of dueling in arenas. I know this was a factor in my guild dying; a lot of people were getting really into arenas; it wasn't simply Kalec'gos's difficulty. And lastly arenas are really about cliques and social ability rather than ability to play the game. It's like handing out gear based on someone's myspace page. At least pve mixed the two up.

I'll still probably get the battlechest when it has wolk though

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: CKent

Originally posted by: mwmorph
Raids are easier. It's no longer Naxx or Sunwell hard so more people can get into it. They're not "easy", you'll still wipe but it's no longer agonizingly difficult like the Sunwell was. Heroics are a challenge.

As for your complaint that Arena gear ruins BGs, well I mean take any RPG game, the more effort and the better you get at a game, the better gear you are rewarded with. Arena is more difficult than BGs to be successful so the superior players get superior equipment. That's like saying I dont like how a a player that has Heroic Udular on farm status has better gear than me when I only do Naxx 10 man non heroics.

Every game has a gear progression curve from Battlefield 2 to WoW, on the basis that you should be awarded for the time and effort you spend playing and the skill you accrue along the way.

I loved that blistering difficulty. I hated that every high end guild seemed to have about half capable players, but the other half were just friends of members or social engineers with only rudimentary skill (women are the worst in this regard :|). After getting past a learning curve and dealing with the occasional wipe due to bad luck, the rare fuckup or disconnect(s), the first half, if each were cloned, could rip through very hard content if not anchored back by the second half. Only a tiny number of guilds ever manage to solve that problem. My last guild broke up after killing Illidan and a week of attempts on Kalec'gos.

FPS games offer free and much more balanced deathmatches, it's absurd to have them in an MMORPG, and more absurd to have them be the end-all, be-all of the game. On top of creating terribly pitched matchups in BGs, arenas give gear so easily that, even though pvp gear =/= pvp gear, it makes pve seem like a huge drag and a lot of work for the same reward you could get with a few weeks of dueling in arenas. I know this was a factor in my guild dying; a lot of people were getting really into arenas; it wasn't simply Kalec'gos's difficulty. And lastly arenas are really about cliques and social ability rather than ability to play the game. It's like handing out gear based on someone's myspace page. At least pve mixed the two up.

I'll still probably get the battlechest when it has wolk though

Well it's also important to remember that these are T7 and T8 raids, equivalent to T1&2 or T4&5.

The really difficult raids were always the end game T6 raids like Naxx and Sunwell. If you really remember T4, Gruul was really not a difficult encounter, just a lot of "WTF don't stand in the fire"(or falling rocks in this case) and Kara was aggro sensitive but also not too bad (Nightbane providing a decent challenge though).

Also the raiding scene has changed because of "Hard Mode" now. Now that you can choose between Heroic and Normal and Heroics are hard. They're not 40 minute long epic fights like 1.x because Blizz implemented some sort of enrage timer on almost all bosses to lower consumable use, but it is still rewarding to have a kill.

The thing with arenas is that it is like raid progression. You have to spend the weeks of effort to get the previous season gear just to be competitive and then obtain the skill to become skilled enough to get the rating for the really good pieces.

Also your guild going for all pvp gear may contribute to you guys dying a lot. I know in all pvp gear I would run OOM in about 25% of the time(with a useless innervate). Tanks in PvP gear tend to take a lot more damage than tanks in decent PvE gear and DPS in PvP gear cant keep up with PvE Dps, something especially relevant in BC WoW where there was a much larger gap between PvP gear quality and PvE gear quality.

A lot of people thought Oh wow, I'm all epiced out with S2 Merciless/Veteran's Arena gear I bought from BGs with Honor, that means I'm T5 equalivilent, and wipe on the first trash pull on SWP. The truth in the matter is, in SWP, the margin for error was so small, that going for what was basically welfare epics(yes, they were comparable only to non tier epics dropped from Kara when going for pve stats) would wipe a raid.

 

[CKent]

I'm not saying the arena gear is good for pve, although it is better for pve than pve gear is for pvp. For example, mage S3 gloves were excellent in pve due to the 50% resistance to disruption while casting sheep, and mage pvp gear in general was suitable in pve for tanking gruuls and, later on, the illidari council. In fact, with the abysmal sta on most mage gear until well into t6, pvp gear was often needed just to have enough hp to survive encounters. I remember having to wear a few pieces for extra stamina with Teron and Najentus, among others... Where, again, was pve gear good in pvp?

But I digress... I'm only saying that when presented with gear for dueling 10 times a week, people tend to wonder why they're raiding for 20 hours for progression instead. Sure, some just enjoy pve and others don't mind progressing both ways, but many just see pve as a sucker's game. Which, with 10x the time investment for the same gear, it pretty much is. I had 2 accounts for a while an was AFKing 10 2v2 games while watching a movie. Picked up a s3 piece on each character :roll:

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: CKent
I'm not saying the arena gear is good for pve, although it is better for pve than pve gear is for pvp. For example, mage S3 gloves were excellent in pve due to the 50% resistance to disruption while casting sheep, and mage pvp gear in general was suitable in pve for tanking gruuls and, later on, the illidari council. In fact, with the abysmal sta on most mage gear until well into t6, pvp gear was often needed just to have enough hp to survive encounters. I remember having to wear a few pieces for extra stamina with Teron and Najentus, among others... Where, again, was pve gear good in pvp?

But I digress... I'm only saying that when presented with gear for dueling 10 times a week, people tend to wonder why they're raiding for 20 hours for progression instead. Sure, some just enjoy pve and others don't mind progressing both ways, but many just see pve as a sucker's game. Which, with 10x the time investment for the same gear, it pretty much is. I had 2 accounts for a while an was AFKing 10 2v2 games while watching a movie. Picked up a s3 piece on each character :roll:

I have to say I understand exactly what you mean. I remember running a BT pug while gearing my alt for SWP backing in 2.4.x days and after 2 months, the final piece I needed drops, only to be ninjaed by the ML to a priest with no roll or even warning because he thought "Druids dont get to wear cloth so the only priest got it".

Gear is harder to come by, but when you get it, because of the work it feels amazing. I doubt winning an arena match produces the kind of pride or response when getting your first kill on Kil'Jaden or finally completing your T6 set.