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whats the big deal about embryonic stem cells

Onceler

Onceler

Golden Member
Then explain to me the advantages they have been touted for a cure for everything but what advantages do they have over adult cells?
 
What's the problem with using embryonic stem cells in research? You can't make premptive judgments without actually doing research in the area. We don't know if embryonic stem cells will be more flexible in terms of useage or different treatments. Adult stem cells have shown a lot of promise because most research has been redirected there due to the stupid restriction on Federal research dollars, especially since the restriction had no basis in science. Plus, all those embryos were going into the trash anyway (excess from fertility clinics, etc). At least if you allow for the harvesting of the stem cells, they can be useful.

Edit:
You should consider using punctuation in the future; it might make your thoughts a little bit more coherent.
 
Originally posted by: manlymatt83
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
You first: give me a non-religious reason not to use them.

Faith-based science, isn't.
Click to expand...

Because life begins at conception?

Why is that always tied to religion?
Click to expand...

Last I checked stem cells were harvested from fetuses that would be aborted anyway.

I might agree with restrictions against paying women to conceive then abort if that ever happens.
 
Originally posted by: manlymatt83
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
You first: give me a non-religious reason not to use them.

Faith-based science, isn't.
Click to expand...

Because life begins at conception?

Why is that always tied to religion?
Click to expand...

Because there's no reason to believe that a frozen batch of cells in an icebox are any more human than clam strips.

And there's also no more reason to call a bundle of cells inside a uterus human than the uterus itself. After all, the cells in the uterine wall have all the DNA of a complete human.
 
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: manlymatt83
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
You first: give me a non-religious reason not to use them.

Faith-based science, isn't.
Click to expand...

Because life begins at conception?

Why is that always tied to religion?
Click to expand...

Because there's no reason to believe that a frozen batch of cells in an icebox are any more human than clam strips.

And there's also no more reason to call a bundle of cells inside a uterus human than the uterus itself. After all, the cells in the uterine wall have all the DNA of a complete human.
Click to expand...

I hate this debate because I am on both sides of it. But if you follow your reasoning, you and I are just a bunch of cells. Its not that simple.
 
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: manlymatt83
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
You first: give me a non-religious reason not to use them.

Faith-based science, isn't.
Click to expand...

Because life begins at conception?

Why is that always tied to religion?
Click to expand...

Because there's no reason to believe that a frozen batch of cells in an icebox are any more human than clam strips.

And there's also no more reason to call a bundle of cells inside a uterus human than the uterus itself. After all, the cells in the uterine wall have all the DNA of a complete human.
Click to expand...

That comparison makes absolutely no sense
 
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: manlymatt83
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
You first: give me a non-religious reason not to use them.

Faith-based science, isn't.
Click to expand...

Because life begins at conception?

Why is that always tied to religion?
Click to expand...

Because there's no reason to believe that a frozen batch of cells in an icebox are any more human than clam strips.

And there's also no more reason to call a bundle of cells inside a uterus human than the uterus itself. After all, the cells in the uterine wall have all the DNA of a complete human.
Click to expand...

Pretty difficult to determine at which point a fetus is a human. One persons definition is just as arbitrary as another's
 
Originally posted by: NSFW
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: manlymatt83
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
You first: give me a non-religious reason not to use them.

Faith-based science, isn't.
Click to expand...

Because life begins at conception?

Why is that always tied to religion?
Click to expand...

Because there's no reason to believe that a frozen batch of cells in an icebox are any more human than clam strips.

And there's also no more reason to call a bundle of cells inside a uterus human than the uterus itself. After all, the cells in the uterine wall have all the DNA of a complete human.
Click to expand...

I hate this debate because I am on both sides of it. But if you follow your reasoning, you and I are just a bunch of cells. Its not that simple.
Click to expand...

Same (I'm on both sides)
 
Why does the government have to do everything? What is wrong with this generation? Everywhere I go, I hear people talking about how the "government" needs to do it, how "the government" is meant to do it.

What the fuck is wrong with people? Have we become such a bunch of pussies we can't man the fuck up and not live in fairy tale land and handle our own problems, our own responsibilities without some moral superlord (one way or the other) dictating how we should spend our money, or what we should spend it on?

This is what its come to, the government spending money on aborted fetuses, well done Ginsberg, Ted Kennedy, Obama, and all the rest. King asshat rules now.
 
Originally posted by: TehMac
Why does the government have to do everything? What is wrong with this generation? Everywhere I go, I hear people talking about how the "government" needs to do it, how "the government" is meant to do it.

What the fuck is wrong with people? Have we become such a bunch of pussies we can't man the fuck up and not live in fairy tale land and handle our own problems, our own responsibilities without some moral superlord (one way or the other) dictating how we should spend our money, or what we should spend it on?

This is what its come to, the government spending money on aborted fetuses, well done Ginsberg, Ted Kennedy, Obama, and all the rest. King asshat rules now.
Click to expand...

Wait... so are you for or against ESC research? Just against government funding of it? This government rant seems pretty out of place in a discussion regarding the science of the matter
 
Originally posted by: NSFW
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: manlymatt83
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
You first: give me a non-religious reason not to use them.

Faith-based science, isn't.
Click to expand...

Because life begins at conception?

Why is that always tied to religion?
Click to expand...

Because there's no reason to believe that a frozen batch of cells in an icebox are any more human than clam strips.

And there's also no more reason to call a bundle of cells inside a uterus human than the uterus itself. After all, the cells in the uterine wall have all the DNA of a complete human.
Click to expand...

I hate this debate because I am on both sides of it. But if you follow your reasoning, you and I are just a bunch of cells. Its not that simple.
Click to expand...

The embryos are just a collection of cells, though. We are more than that. The embryos do not have consciousness and never will, since they are being disposed of anyway.
 
Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante
Originally posted by: NSFW
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: manlymatt83
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
You first: give me a non-religious reason not to use them.

Faith-based science, isn't.
Click to expand...

Because life begins at conception?

Why is that always tied to religion?
Click to expand...

Because there's no reason to believe that a frozen batch of cells in an icebox are any more human than clam strips.

And there's also no more reason to call a bundle of cells inside a uterus human than the uterus itself. After all, the cells in the uterine wall have all the DNA of a complete human.
Click to expand...

I hate this debate because I am on both sides of it. But if you follow your reasoning, you and I are just a bunch of cells. Its not that simple.
Click to expand...

The embryos are just a collection of cells, though. We are more than that. The embryos do not have consciousness and never will, since they are being disposed of anyway.
Click to expand...

But fetuses dont have conscious thought until really late into development. Are you ok with doing tests on those fetuses?

I'm just playing the devil's advocate here. Seems like how we define "human" is really arbitrary
 
Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante

The embryos are just a collection of cells, though. We are more than that. The embryos do not have consciousness and never will, since they are being disposed of anyway.
Click to expand...

I don't know...This subject hits too close to home on too many levels. I lost a baby at a few months along. He wasn't much more than just a bunch of cells. He didn't have consciousness, or at least I don't think he did.

On the other side of my heart, my son has type 1 diabetes. The info that I have seen says that stem cell research could be the key to finding the cure.

I don't have an opinion on this issue at all. Other than it goes much deeper than cells and test tubes.
 
Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante
Originally posted by: NSFW
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: manlymatt83
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
You first: give me a non-religious reason not to use them.

Faith-based science, isn't.
Click to expand...

Because life begins at conception?

Why is that always tied to religion?
Click to expand...

Because there's no reason to believe that a frozen batch of cells in an icebox are any more human than clam strips.

And there's also no more reason to call a bundle of cells inside a uterus human than the uterus itself. After all, the cells in the uterine wall have all the DNA of a complete human.
Click to expand...

I hate this debate because I am on both sides of it. But if you follow your reasoning, you and I are just a bunch of cells. Its not that simple.
Click to expand...

The embryos are just a collection of cells, though. We are more than that. The embryos do not have consciousness and never will, since they are being disposed of anyway.
Click to expand...

Well if people would stop killing kids via abortion we wouldn't have these partially-developed babies to dispose of in the first place.
 
Originally posted by: Mo0o
Originally posted by: TehMac
Why does the government have to do everything? What is wrong with this generation? Everywhere I go, I hear people talking about how the "government" needs to do it, how "the government" is meant to do it.

What the fuck is wrong with people? Have we become such a bunch of pussies we can't man the fuck up and not live in fairy tale land and handle our own problems, our own responsibilities without some moral superlord (one way or the other) dictating how we should spend our money, or what we should spend it on?

This is what its come to, the government spending money on aborted fetuses, well done Ginsberg, Ted Kennedy, Obama, and all the rest. King asshat rules now.
Click to expand...

Wait... so are you for or against ESC research? Just against government funding of it? This government rant seems pretty out of place in a discussion regarding the science of the matter
Click to expand...

Personally, I'm against it, it conflicts with my principals on how our society should function in regards to these sorts of things. However, at this point, I'd cut funding, if it's such a big flick, let the free market take over.

LET INDIVIDUALS take over, people who are competent and don't need a bunch of bureaucrats to instruct them.

Also, embryonic stem cells are rendered redundant by the fact there are more than a few ways of obtaining stem cells. And if we can obtain them without forsaking our humanitarian edge, so much the better.

The point is, the government is in debt, do we REALLY need more spending on shit that could just have easily been financed by the public sector?

 
Originally posted by: TehMac
Originally posted by: Mo0o
Originally posted by: TehMac
Why does the government have to do everything? What is wrong with this generation? Everywhere I go, I hear people talking about how the "government" needs to do it, how "the government" is meant to do it.

What the fuck is wrong with people? Have we become such a bunch of pussies we can't man the fuck up and not live in fairy tale land and handle our own problems, our own responsibilities without some moral superlord (one way or the other) dictating how we should spend our money, or what we should spend it on?

This is what its come to, the government spending money on aborted fetuses, well done Ginsberg, Ted Kennedy, Obama, and all the rest. King asshat rules now.
Click to expand...

Wait... so are you for or against ESC research? Just against government funding of it? This government rant seems pretty out of place in a discussion regarding the science of the matter
Click to expand...

Personally, I'm against it, it conflicts with my principals on how our society should function in regards to these sorts of things. However, at this point, I'd cut funding, if it's such a big flick, let the free market take over.

LET INDIVIDUALS take over, people who are competent and don't need a bunch of bureaucrats to instruct them.

Also, embryonic stem cells are rendered redundant by the fact there are more than a few ways of obtaining stem cells. And if we can obtain them without forsaking our humanitarian edge, so much the better.

The point is, the government is in debt, do we REALLY need more spending on shit that could just have easily been financed by the public sector?
Click to expand...

A) They're not spending more money. Just lifting the ban on doling out research money.
B) Free market doesn't care about basic scientific research. Only about stuff that has a more directly marketable product.
C) These embryos were going in the medical waste bin anyway. So it's better to throw out these groups of cells (which haven't even differentiated yet) than to use some of those cells to advance our understanding of cellular biology and how cells differentiate?
D) We can obtain some stem cells from other places (adult stem cells), but that doesn't mean they are the be-all-end-all. Embryonic stem cells could be much more flexible, etc, than adult stem cells or do things we never imagined. Hence the reason for RESEARCH.
 
READ THIS FOR EMBRYONIC STEM CELLS VS ADULT STEM CELLS
READ THIS FOR EMBRYONIC STEM CELLS VS ADULT STEM CELLS

READ THIS FOR EMBRYONIC STEM CELLS VS ADULT STEM CELLS


http://stemcells.nih.gov/stati...ics/StemCellBasics.pdf


READ THIS FOR EMBRYONIC STEM CELLS VS ADULT STEM CELLS

READ THIS FOR EMBRYONIC STEM CELLS VS ADULT STEM CELLS
READ THIS FOR EMBRYONIC STEM CELLS VS ADULT STEM CELLS
 
Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante
Originally posted by: NSFW
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: manlymatt83
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
You first: give me a non-religious reason not to use them.

Faith-based science, isn't.
Click to expand...

Because life begins at conception?

Why is that always tied to religion?
Click to expand...

Because there's no reason to believe that a frozen batch of cells in an icebox are any more human than clam strips.

And there's also no more reason to call a bundle of cells inside a uterus human than the uterus itself. After all, the cells in the uterine wall have all the DNA of a complete human.
Click to expand...

I hate this debate because I am on both sides of it. But if you follow your reasoning, you and I are just a bunch of cells. Its not that simple.
Click to expand...

The embryos are just a collection of cells, though. We are more than that. The embryos do not have consciousness and never will, since they are being disposed of anyway.
Click to expand...

Well if people would stop killing kids via abortion we wouldn't have these partially-developed babies to dispose of in the first place.
Click to expand...

Embryonic stem cells are derived from embryos that have been fertilized in vitro, not through abortion.
 
embryonic stem cells are pluripotent, meaning they have nearly unlimited possibility for becoming any type of cell. Adult stem cells are limited in their potential for becoming other cells.

Adult stem cells are 98% useful only for treating side-effects of actual treatments. ES cells are the only relevant type of stem cell when it comes to actual treatments.
 
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