Whats the best Socket 754 Motherboard?

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nRollo

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Jan 11, 2002
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ROTFL! Then how come the ECS K7S5A has become the best selling mainboard ever in PC history - by a huge margin? And is still a great seller even a good two years after its introduction? The rest of Tom's views is just as off.
Perhaps because there are a lot more poor people and people that don't know anything about computer hardware than there are people who know what they're doing?


But now that you disclosed that Tom's is your one true source of information, we all know where you're coming from ...
I guess we know where you're coming from too:
Peter: Champion of the Cheap Stuff.

Let's see, who's more credible? The guy with the hardware review site that's been popular for years and years and years, or Peter, the unknown guy who says "Forget about Asus, Abit and Intel! ECS is the way to go! And they cost half as much too!"
LOL
It's nice you like that cheap crap and can make it work Peter, but don't try to pawn it off on the rest of us as "the best there is".

BTW- if you don't like Tom, how about Digit Life? Or are you smarter than they are too? (LOL)
SiS the dissed
Unfortunately, it had no Hyper-Threading support: the release of revision B had been postponed, and without such support the chipset wasn't of much interest among top solutions.
There's neither Serial ATA, nor FireWire
The latency is not low at all in the SiS648FX
SiS falls behind by 16%, while PT800 yields less than 3% to the leader.
And check out SiS behind Intel and VIA in every single gaming benchmark! If anyone is laughing Pete, it should be at you for championing that cheap SiS crap. I like this even better though:

Taking into account the scarce functionality and low performance of SiS648FX among all three chipsets, its price is the most powerful feature.

And what's up with this Pete? Slowest among all the reviewed chipsets at all gaming benchmarks AGAIN. I'm starting to think you WORK at SiS, because no one else in their right mind would defend them so rabidly. (you know, because they suck?)
Digit Life smacks POSiS some more
The picture doesn't change at all: judging by the SiS748 based sample we got, this chipset is the slowest among the modern solutions.
Well, we didn't expect any other outcome: SiS chipsets could never boast of their speeds if their FSB/SDRAM clock speeds were equal to their competitors'.

Like I said, cheap junk for poor people and people who don't know better.



 

Peter

Elite Member
Oct 15, 1999
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http://www.ocworkbench.com/2003/sis/sis755/755-1.htm

As unbiased as it gets (as in: Not paid by any major competitor.) They're comparing to plenty other solutions, including boards w/ Intel chipsets and older SiS chipsets.

SiS 735, at the time it came out, was the fastest Socket-A chipset. VIA's KT266 was no match. Whose fault is it that it happened to be the cheapest as well? Mine? Even Tom said so, but those articles you carefully didn't select in your quoting diarrhea.

I'll just pick one of your quotes to show how misleadingly you used them. Tom actually said about the 735:

"But we haven't forgotten that SiS was able to wow us back in mid-2001 with its 735 chiopset for the Athlon. And yet the 735 did not become a breakthrough success as it was only used in low-cost products - nobody really took the chip seriously."

On this page:

http://www17.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20031215/sis655tx-12.html

which is actually very positive about the SiS chipset they tested.

You should become a politician ...

Or are you just another one of those guys who can't stand not having the last word on something?

[edit: typo]
 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
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OK Peter, what's the deal? You and I both know I could go on and on and on digging up quotes about crappy SiS performance, and how ECS motherboards, while cheap and usually stable, are also often slow and not exactly feature packed.

Yes every now and again SiS hits on some good performance, and that 735 motherboard got good reviews.

Better question is why are you pimping these cheapo motherboards like next month's mortgage depends on it? ECS may be the world's second largest motherboard manufacturer, but you know as well as I it's because OEMs use them to build cheaper boxes and make more money for themselves.

Ford sells a ton more Focus's than Cadillac sells Deville's, but I think I know which one I'd rather drive? Same principles apply 99% of the time at computer parts: you usually get what you pay for.

I think I've proved SiS isn't exactly unblemished in the last 5 years, and thereby disproved your ludicrous assertion that I'm living in 1998.

If ECS/SiS is all you can afford, fine. I'm not going to watch you try and pawn it off like it's just as good as the real motherboards though. Some of us don't mind paying for Intel, nVidia, and VIA.
 

Creig

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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From AnandTech:

"For the most part, the three major DDR chipsets perform within a few percentage points of each other. You can?t really go wrong with any of them. But obviously that?s not the answer you?re looking for. There are a few cases, especially in very stressful circumstances, that the SiS 735 truly flexes its muscle.

We are still investigating exactly what SiS did to give the 735 such dominating performance, but it?s definitely very low-level architectural enhancements that make the 735 the solution it is today.

The real beauty of the 735 isn?t its performance, especially since you?ll find it quite difficult to notice a performance difference (in most cases) between it and the 760/KT266. No, the real beauty of the 735 is its price. The ECS board we used in this review retails for less than $80. We have seen it places for as low as $65 plus shipping. This makes the board and the platform the perfect companion for the very low cost Duron and Athlon processors. For less than $200 you can easily upgrade your system to a Duron on a SiS 735 board with DDR SDRAM courtesy of the very aggressive pricing from AMD, SiS and DDR SDRAM manufacturers such as Crucial."



From X-Bit Labs:

"We have made sure that thanks to SiS 735 core logic, ECS K7S5A mainboard is a high-performance product offered at a low price. "



From AmdMB:

"With the price tag it has, ECS target the low-budget market, even if they didn?t intend to. The high performance market will love the speed and power the SiS 735 chipset is delivering here. The ECS K7S5A is truly an awesome motherboard! The only thing preventing it from receiving an Editor?s Choice are the elusive front-side bus adjustments. But, perhaps if we ask nicely enough, ECS can give us what we are asking for in another bios update! This board deserves the score of 9 stars out of 10! "



From FiringSquad:

"ECS's K7S5A offers everything you'd want in a workhorse machine: strong performance, a well-rounded feature set, and rock-solid stability. On top of all this, it comes at an outrageously low price! If ECS just would've added a more flexible bus speed selection with 1MHz bus increments, we'd have a solid Editor's Choice contender right here."



From OCWorkbench:

"Overall, it ECS K7S5A will appeal to those who needs a low cost DDR high performance mainboard." (given an Editors Choice Award)



From TweakTown:

Well, for our first SiS 735 board we have to say it rocks. Despite the lack of overclocking on the motherboard, the results blew the roof off the AMD 760 and the KT266. As for the board itself, it is an extremly stable, well designed OEM motherboard and offers very little to complain about (only the overclocking but let us specify its OEM not OC).

The SiS Chipset alone gets a 9 out of 10 rating, but overall: Rating - 8/10



From HardwareAnalysis:

The K7S5A is certainly not for the extremists or power users in our community. However, for someone perhaps just getting a start on a DIY system, and looking for a reasonable board, the K7S5A?s affordable price, competitive performance, and wide availability make it a compelling option. Less than $70 for a DDR board (a top performing DDR board, at that) in some places is a pretty reasonable offer.




But then, of course, Rollo said it was just junk so all these people must fall into his "poor people and people that don't know anything about computer hardware" category.

Right, Rollo.
 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
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But then, of course, Rollo said it was just junk so all these people must fall into his "poor people and people that don't know anything about computer hardware" category.

Good lord. This is an old Athlon motherboard that I've already said gets good reviews. Capische? I SAID
every now and again SiS hits on some good performance, and that 735 motherboard got good reviews.

Nonetheless, like I've shown over and over, SiS/ECS are regarded as second tier, bargain basement stuff. There are a lot of good reasons for that.

Of course, since we're talking about the fine SiS 735 chipset, it's interesting how you guys leave out that it only had the performance lead for about four months and then was back to losing every single benchmark again, the usual role for SiS:
KT266A spells d-o-o-m for POSiS
LOL

Gee, here at Anandtech too
POSiS smacked around like Saddam in his hole.



 

NightCrawler

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 2003
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The SiS755 will be a lot of bang for buck, I'd wait for the reviews of the boards that comes with the SiS755.
 

microAmp

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2000
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BoomAM if you plan to overclock, I would look towards the nForce chipset since it can lock the AGP/PCI while the VIA chipset can't.

Other than that the benchmarks between the two have been close to each other since now the memory controller is on the Athlon. Looking at Tom's benchmarks the VIA seems to pull out a little bit more at times, but I just briefly looked over them. Benchies of 8 S754 boards Toms liked the MSI board, then ASUS. Anand liked the Chaintech. According to Anand's review on the MSI Neo, they plan to come out with an update "in a few weeks" on the BIOS to lock the AGP/PCI. But I went to their site and doesn't have one yet.

nForce-250 will ship in December? according to X-bit. I would think it might be late Jan. or Feb. before boards start coming out.

I would probably look at what features of the boards of what comes with what. Maybe like Cool & Quiet which the MSI board has, NFS4 has this on his board (don't think it's the MSI board), PM him for more information on that, pretty cool feature.

Features table of Shuttle, Chaintech, ASUS, MSI, Gigabyte *2, Biostar, & EPoX
 

XBoxLPU

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2001
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The Asus K8V is the board NFS4 has and I will be ordering one soon

IMO, it is the best AMD 64 board. The Abit Max 3 doesn't have the best layout and I haven't looked at the MSI board
 

Viper96720

Diamond Member
Jul 15, 2002
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I'm getting the ASUS board also. I don't need to overclock a 3000+ cpu. So not having a pci/agp lock don't matter to me. Plus the wifi may come in handy.
 

Peter

Elite Member
Oct 15, 1999
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Originally posted by: Rolloit's interesting how you guys leave out that it only had the performance lead for about four months and then was back to losing every single benchmark again, the usual role for SiS

Four months? That's an eternity in chipset life cycles. Sure, the next generation of chipsets always is faster than the previous one. Your point? Let alone, news? You got nothing but foul language. Ridiculous.

If you want to talk about performance losers, let's talk about how NVidia have so far been unable to run the HyperTransport link at more than 75% its intended speed. THAT is a massive performance problem, a chip design flaw that the other three A64 chipsets don't have.

A chipset getting overtaken by newer ones is not. Such is the nature of progress.
 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
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Four months? That's an eternity in chipset life cycles.
rolleye.gif

I concede the point that for four months SiS had the best chipset for one cpu. I don't think it detracts from my original statement that SiS has been a second to third tier chipset on second to third tier boards, not worthy of my time.

Anand's Editors Choice went to a board from SiS, nto a retail board you could buy. As manufacturers have been known to send reviewers "golden sample" boards, I'll withold judgement on this latest SiS offering until I see it tested on a real motherboard I could buy.
 

BoomAM

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2001
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Originally posted by: motoamd
BoomAM if you plan to overclock, I would look towards the nForce chipset since it can lock the AGP/PCI while the VIA chipset can't.
I dont plan on doing extreme OCing, maybe just a 100-200mhz OC, which the Via`s seem capible of doing.
According to Anand's review on the MSI Neo, they plan to come out with an update "in a few weeks" on the BIOS to lock the AGP/PCI. But I went to their site and doesn't have one yet.
If they do add one, then i will buy the MSI. Cos OC UK sell it;
It is this one isnt it?
MSI K8T Neo-FIS2R (Socket 754) Motherboard
nForce-250 will ship in December? according to X-bit. I would think it might be late Jan. or Feb. before boards start coming out.
I dont know if i cant be arsed waiting that long.
I would probably look at what features of the boards of what comes with what. Maybe like Cool & Quiet which the MSI board has, NFS4 has this on his board (don't think it's the MSI board), PM him for more information on that, pretty cool feature.
Cool & Quiet tech could com in handy.
Does it only throttle down when nothings happening? Or when theres a decreased workload as well?
Cos it throttles from 2ghz to 800mhz, and if i was only web browsing, then 800mhz would be fine.
Originally posted by: XBoxLPU
The Asus K8V is the board NFS4 has and I will be ordering one soon

IMO, it is the best AMD 64 board.
Thats what alot of reviews of it say.
 

Peter

Elite Member
Oct 15, 1999
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Cool&Quiet is a CPU internal feature. All the board needs to do is provide the BIOS ACPI object for it; there is nothing special that needs to be done in hardware. The operating system then calls this object to switch power states as it sees fit. Windows XP lets you control this through the Power Control Schemes control panel.

Note that all modern operating systems have been halting the CPU completely when idle; this has been possible ever since the 486DX4 came out; Windows NT and Linux have been doing that forever, while DOS-based Windowses don't.

With AMD's Cool&Quiet as well as in Intel's Speedstep III (in Pentium M) and AMD's PowerNow! (ever since K6-2+) the common strategy has been to implement "always full speed" power modes, as well as a handful of balancing ones that do switch the CPU faster and slower depending on system load and a "minimize power" mode using the slowest possible clock.

Athlon-64 CPUs currently implement three stages - full speed at nominal voltage, a slightly lower speed with a noticeably lower voltage (and thus wattage), and a low power low performance mode. The 2-GHz models 3000+ and 3200+ do 2.0 GHz, 1.8 GHz and 800 MHz. Any of the offered power schemes will shuffle these available modes to the best user experience, hopefully.
 

BoomAM

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Sep 25, 2001
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Originally posted by: JCE10
Does the Asus K8V have Cool'n'Quiet enabled?
No.

WinXP require a seperate driver, from the AMD website, for Cool&Quiet to work on compatible mobos.
 

Peter

Elite Member
Oct 15, 1999
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Right. Windows XP needs a CPU driver to attach to the BIOS ACPI object that does the CPU power control. No real problem there, just install said driver.

Still, the board's BIOS must bring the ACPI support for it to work.
 

Viper96720

Diamond Member
Jul 15, 2002
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Most board manufacturers should update their bios to allow cool and quiet. Gigabyte already has a bios available for the k8vnxp.
 

brett1

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Apr 8, 2001
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What is the difference between the Nforce 3 Socket 754 right now and the Nforce 3 -250 that is supposedly coming out soon?

What is the best socket 754 mobo now for a person who doesn't plan on overclocking....at all? I like the nforce because it encodes dolby digital on the fly... is it worth it to wait for the Nforce 250?
 

BoomAM

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2001
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Originally posted by: brett1
What is the difference between the Nforce 3 Socket 754 right now and the Nforce 3 -250 that is supposedly coming out soon?
The one coming out soon has a few new features, will probably have the full 16bit/800mhz HT bus, rarther than the 8bit/600mhz bus it has atm.
What is the best socket 754 mobo now for a person who doesn't plan on overclocking....at all?
ATM, i`d say any Via K8T800 mobo. Like the Asus K8V or the MSI K8 Neo.
I like the nforce because it encodes dolby digital on the fly...
The existing nForce3 doesnt do that. At all. Doesnt even have a soundchip unless its a 3rd party one added by the manufacturer.
is it worth it to wait for the Nforce 250?
If you dont plan on OCing, then no. Go for a Via now and be happy with it.
If you want to OC/can wait a while, then wait till the new nForce3 & Via KT8T800 updates get released.