What's the best PCI-E graphics card for CAD/3D Studio?

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SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
Hey guys,

I asked Duvie this in a PM, but I was hoping for some futher input. I wanted to ask if anyone knows of a PCI-E graphics card that can be modded into an OpenGL card. I just got an apprenticeship working for an architect, and I need to build a CAD rig. My 9700/FireGL X1 works great right now, but the new rig with be S939 PCI-E based.

Any suggestions? $200-$300 price range would be perfect, any less would be a bonus. I'll be doing a few 5-storey high-end condos, so the more graphics power the better. To put it in perspective, my X1 is only moderately fast on a large house.

I'm open to workstation cards, but a moddable option would be preferred (much cheaper). Thanks!
 
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imported_TheCadMan

Member
Apr 25, 2004
58
0
0
I haven't heard of any success with using the new drivers for modding gaming cards to quadros/FGLs. I assume the PCI-E ones will be even harder. The problem with the professional cards is that if you want to game, your gonna pay through the nose. I would love to see how the 3dlabs realizm 800 performs it's said to be than 2 Quadro 4400 SLI and about $1000 cheaper than that config. The choice is clear that the 3dlabs cards are the way to go, if you go the professional route.
 
S

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
What about the new X800-based cards from ATi? I've read that they offer a great price/performance ratio compared to what nVidia currently has at the high end, plus I'll bet there will soon be PCI-E variants.

I don't care about gaming for this computer. I'm curious as to how this card would perform for only $130. It's AGP only though. :(
 
S

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
Hey CadMan, I just looked at this review of a $500+ 3D Labs card. Disappointing to say the least. It's barely any faster than my X1, and doesn't even have a 3D Studio Max 5/6 driver which I desperately need.

It was my understanding that nVidia owned the workstation graphics market, with ATi following them up. I'm not sure I could trust the driver team at 3D Labs just yet.
 
codeyf

codeyf

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
11,854
3
81
I work in IT for a fairly large Architecture Firm. We've tested and decided to configure our new Dells with the PCIx FireGL. We've found it works well for the applications currently used by our architects:

Microstation V7/V8
AutoCAD 2000
formZ
SketchUp 4.0
 
S

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
Originally posted by: codeyf
I work in IT for a fairly large Architecture Firm. We've tested and decided to configure our new Dells with the PCIx FireGL. We've found it works well for the applications currently used by our architects:

Microstation V7/V8
AutoCAD 2000
formZ
SketchUp 4.0
Click to expand...

You guys might want to look into an ADT/3D Max setup just FYI. If you're going to use basic CAD, you should at least be using 2002 (2000 was plagued with bugs).

The FireGL card seems most enticing at this point. The only thing that bothers me is that it's identical to the X800 and there will almost definately be a softmod in the near future.

BTW, no offence, but if you're an IT guy why are you buying the machines from Dell? You should be custom building! AMD=CAD bliss. :)
 
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imported_TheCadMan

Member
Apr 25, 2004
58
0
0
Look at the 3dlabs "realizm" series NOT the VP series those things are old. Sometimes people will chose dell because it is a supported configuration. Thats why someone chooses a professional card. Try spending $5K on maya 6 and then asking their tech support why you are having a problem running their software on a geforce series. They will NOT give you tech support on a geforce/radeon series since it is not a supported configuration. They have a web page that specifies supported hardware http://www.alias.com/eng/suppo.../QUAL/maya_60_win.html as do many other CAD/DCC companies. They may be the exact same card as their gaming counterpart however, the services associated with them are way different. When you RMA a FGL, they send you a new card before they even recieve the defective one. They actually overnighted a new one to me once so my down time was minimal. Anyhow, good luck.
 
S

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
Originally posted by: TheCadMan
Look at the 3dlabs "realizm" series NOT the VP series those things are old.
Click to expand...

The Realizm 200 looks quite impressive, and costs $1100 which is not outrageous. Do you know if it would give me a twofold increase over a FireGL based on the X800 series?

As for the supported configuration bit, I would much prefer a custom-built rig over Maya tech support. After dealing with Autodesk for years, their support is in all honesty terrible. I would simply not tell them that I'm running an AMD setup if that's going to be their response. If someone invests $6,000 in software, they should be taken care of by the Maya people.

You also need to consider the upgrade situation with Dell. My old school would end up with a room full of 50 useless computers every two years.

I don't even run Maya so again this is not an issue for me.
 
S

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
Maya 6.0 is currently Qualified on the following 64-bit systems:
Opteron: Windows XP Professional (SP1)
Click to expand...

Can you not tell the Maya people that you're running a motherboard with the same chipset as an HP rig?
 
P

PrayForDeath

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2004
3,478
1
76
Originally posted by: SickBeast
As for the supported configuration bit, I would much prefer a custom-built rig over Maya tech support. After dealing with Autodesk for years, their support is in all honesty terrible. I would simply not tell them that I'm running an AMD setup if that's going to be their response. If someone invests $6,000 in software, they should be taken care of by the Maya people.
Click to expand...

lol! :laugh:

There's been a thread a while ago linking benchmarks on all the recent workstation graphics cards (inlcuding the latest FireGLs, Quadros and 3Dlabs Wildcat), try to look for it.
 
S

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
Originally posted by: PrayForDeath
Originally posted by: SickBeast
If someone invests $6,000 in software, they should be taken care of by the Maya people.
Click to expand...

lol! :laugh:

There's been a thread a while ago linking benchmarks on all the recent workstation graphics cards (inlcuding the latest FireGLs, Quadros and 3Dlabs Wildcat), try to look for it.
Click to expand...

It wasn't meant to be humourous but sure, I hope you had a good laugh. :thumbsup:

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll have to check it out.

Honestly the problems that come up with these $6000 pieces of software are no laughing matter. 20 releases later and AutoCAD still can't do a simple command that MS Paint can do (paint bucket tool). If anyone's done hatching in CAD they'll know exactly what I'm talking about.
 
codeyf

codeyf

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
11,854
3
81
Well, Microstation is the standard app. We have probably less than 50 using ACAD. And they only use it for translation, or on specific projects where the client or whatever is using ACAD. Otherwise it's probably 80-90% Microstation.

We had custom built boxes, but recently, they have been nothing but problems for us. They jack up with our standard images because simple things like manufactures change on particular components. Or problems where getting warranty work on older machines takes forever cuz they can't find the same mobo/video card/whatever.

But mostly, it's the support after we've got the machines that is a big problem. The Dells we're looking at aren't any faster/better than the "white boxes" we've got now, but service and support on them is head and shoulders above what we get with the white boxes.

If we were a small firm, then hey, building custom PC's for everyone probably wouldn't be a problem. But as any IT person will tell you, when dealing with med-large sized buisness, you need to maintain certain hardware and software standards so that everyone doesn't have something different. If everyone had something different, it'd be a in-house support nightmare.

Oh, and I have never bothered to open the can of worms as to the reason our CAD Managers decided on Microstation....
 
Keysplayr

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,211
50
91
Originally posted by: SickBeast
What about the new X800-based cards from ATi? I've read that they offer a great price/performance ratio compared to what nVidia currently has at the high end, plus I'll bet there will soon be PCI-E variants.

I don't care about gaming for this computer. I'm curious as to how this card would perform for only $130. It's AGP only though. :(
Click to expand...

Just get yourself a used 5800 and flash it to a quadro. :)

 
S

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Just get yourself a used 5800 and flash it to a quadro. :)
Click to expand...

You can actually bios flash them? That would be perfect. Where's Rollo?? :beer:
 
S

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
Originally posted by: codeyf
Oh, and I have never bothered to open the can of worms as to the reason our CAD Managers decided on Microstation....
Click to expand...

Yeah, you might not want to go there. From what I've heard it's not the best software to be using. Apparently its niche use is to create massive cityscapes for urban planners. I see no reason why CAD can't do this, but there must be a reason I suppose.

I use ADT 2005 and it's really something to behold. I drew up my thesis in three weeks, completely rendered in 3D. This would have taken me months in 3D CAD.

The only trouble is that it's extremely complex. ADT is almost as complex as CAD, plus you still need to know all the CAD commands. It's definately not for the 50 year old architects that still don't know how to draw on a computer. I can't complain though; it's situations like this that make me money. :thumbsup:
 
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