What's the best martial arts to join?

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May 16, 2000
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I've been in a lot of different schools; tae kwon do, karate (couple different forms), hapkido, aikido, escrima, moo sool, judo, tai chi, and jiu-jitsu. I've also had some boxing, wrestling, security/leo and military training. On top of that I've watched or known people involved in many many other arts, including two people into krav maga (one an Israeli instructor who immigrated to America).

My overall outlook is pretty much polar opposite to IloveDivx, although I agree with many of his assessments. Personally, I don't think fighting is EVER a sport, nor a form of exercise (although it will help keep you in shape). I also don't think anyone who is only a physical fighter is worth a crap in actual combat. I believe any truely effective warrior develops a 3 tiered training system and lifestyle, encompassing physical training, mental aptitude, and spiritual awareness. That sounds hokey to many, and that's fine. But all the physical conditioning in the world will NOT help you if you're taken by surprise, and only mental training conditions that. Only mental training prepares you to use your environment, to improvise, or even better, to talk your way out of a fight (which is a far better outcome even than winning a fight). As for spiritual, you can call it something else if you're uncomfortable with the term, but if you aren't in control of your emotions, you will lose. If you aren't willing to take a life (or at least ruin one) then maybe you shouldn't be in the situation. Only through careful exploration of the self can you come to terms with these limitations. What's more, deep conditioning of the spirit heightens your respect for and understanding of life. It raises your compassion and empathy. These things will help avoid more fights than any other training. I'm far more afraid of someone who is 5'5 145lbs calm, aware, and knowledgable, than someone who is 6'5 250lbs and blinded by rage. I've faced both types. I'm not sure I would have won against the calm man had it come to blows. The big freak was relatively simple by comparison.

I believe there are three reasons why a person wants to study martial arts: Activity (they want exercise or want to fit in or think it's a sport or have some starry eyed notion of what a martial art is). Self-defense (they want to be able to defend themselves against attack, rather or not they have a specific purpose in mind). Warrior (something about them demands they make a concerted effort to master themselves).

If you're the first group then it doesn't matter what you take, they may all work. You'll probably enjoy tae kwon do, sport karate, maybe kung fu.

If you're in the second group then it does matter what you learn. You have to first decide what environment you're thinking of. Are you being bullied? One person or many? Urban or rural? Are you afraid? Do you have something to defend? Family, friends, property, values? Or are you simply wanting to feel confident that should the situation call for it you could live through the encounter. Could you kill? Could you break or maim? Does blood or violence bother you in any way? All of these are important to know to choose a style that is right for you. If you're training for self defense you want to stay away from any school that focuses on the sports or health aspects. Good general choices for self defense are: krav maga, muay thai, jiu-jitsu, judo, some (though not anywhere near all) karate, even boxing and wrestling. The idea of self defense is make it through to another day, preferably without being injured. Against opponents you want to be able to inflict rapid direct incapacitating damage to your enemy, without flair or wasted time, or be in complete control of the engagement and thus avoid any possibility of continued action against you. Against multiple opponents it's even more vital. Every attack you launch HAS to remove one enemy from the fight until you're down to no more than two, preferably one. That means overwhelming blows (like from muay thai), vital strikes (krav maga, some karate), simple incapacitating maneuvers (jiu jitsu), or tossing them out of the threat area (like using judo training to launch them into sharp pointy things). Aikido, while a devastating art, simply is too complex to master rapidly enough to make it a useful defense art. Another school of thought for defense which borders on the third type of seeker, is to put so much fear into your enemy(s) that they don't continue the fight. Some arts like Aikido, kung-fu, escrima, etc are excellent for this. If a guy comes up to you and swings and you maneuver him into a good wrist lock where you can parade him around calmly, while talking about all the nasty things you could do to him (kinda like a steven segall movie) his friends often decide it isn't worth it. One on one it's always better not to hurt someone unless it's necessary, and then locks, throws, incapacitations, etc are even more effective. I've been in security for the last 10 years or so. I haven't thrown a punch or kick (except specifically at a vital or control point to break their strength) in that time. I've been in hundreds of encounters (especially in the hospital er and psych wards) and I haven't been struck yet. Don't fall into the 'beat them up' trap of thought. There are many ways to leave an encounter alive, and striking (in my opinion) is near the bottom of the list. Also, self defense doesn't stop at melee combat training. If you TRULY care about defense, you'll be open to additional training (mental conditioning, street awareness, firearms training, etc).

If you think you're the third type, then you have the longest, but most rewarding road ahead of you. For these people, there is no right art, and in fact there shouldn't be only one art in the end. You can't simply say 'muay thai' is best. It is NOT best for a very small person with an inability to gain muscle mass or strength (and yes, I've known people who were UNABLE to get over 135lbs at 5'6, even with medical help). A very light, weak person will never inflict enough serious harm with muay thai against a bigger stronger opponent to make it a good choice. It relies on some amount of strength to be effective. A person in this situation would be much better suited to learning fast precision strike arts, or pressure point arts (kenpo, aikido, jiu-jitsu). That's not to say they wouldn't benefit from muay thai training, it's an extremely effective style...but they must tailor their training to their own purposes and limitations. Decide when you think you would use the training, how far you're willing to go (do you want to avoid the fight, scare them off, or are you perfectly comfortable delivering lethal blows against your opponents). Think carefully about your personality and abilities. Find an art which focuses on your strong areas, without totally ignoring other options. After a while you can pick up another school of training to improve your weak areas or just broaden your capabilities. Then another and another. Eventually your own style will emerge from all the knowledge you amass. This is the heart of bruce lees 'jeet kune do', and in fact most of histories greatest warriors. For these people it's the most important that they find a good school, with a good instructor who understands what they want to get from the training. This isn't a path about just fighting...it's about challenges and meeting them, succeeding in and in fact mastering life itself. It is these people who train all three aspects of the self to work as one, and it is these people who are most feared in combat...not because of the style they've chosen to use.

The above, of course, is opinion. I don't fight in tournaments, so I can't tell you what will work there. But I've been in a ridiculous number of encounters on the job and in the streets, and in my opinion, which style you use is far less important than how well you use it, and how well rounded you are.
 

InFecTed

Senior member
May 15, 2001
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Originally posted by: iLoveDivX
get a gun. if not, go for either brazillian jujitsu or muay thai. those are the only two applicable martial arts. everything else SUCKS. period. -aikido takes like at least 6 years to master, if you haven't mastered it, you're gonna get your @ss creamed on the street. -taekwondo is a $hitty martial arts, useless on the streets and only good for performing on stage. -kung fu (especially wing cheung, it was developed by a woman) is also useless on the street. -karate is useless too. jujitsu is useful cause most fights end up on the ground, people only box for like 5 seconds and then they'll tackle you down to the ground. muay thai's concept is all power. everything you do (kick/punch) has max power in it. on the street, only a muay thai kick to the leg is useful. some stupid karate tap tap side kick or kung fu tiger claw isn't gonna do jack to some guy that weighs 180 lbs and you only weigh 140. trust me, i've taken karate AND muay thai before and there's a huge difference. if you decide to go with muay thai, make sure you talk to the owner and make sure he doesn't feed you cr@p. if he starts talking about zen and chi and all that mental bullsh*t, leave. if you go into a place and see people practice toughening up their shins by banging stuff on it and kicking each other on the shin, that's the place you want to study at. that's the real deal.

Well your post makes clear you don't know sh*t about martial arts. You're making a complete fool of yourself.
I've been training Shotokan Karate-do for almost 15 years now. There's a whole lot more in martial arts than "banging stuff on it and kicking each other". If you want good results, training your mind is as important as training your body.
Now about the street fighting. There will always be some guys that are bigger and stronger than you. Speed, anticipation and good fighting tactics is what martial arts are all about. And the key to speed and agility is Chi (think about it like a way to be relaxed and focused at the same time, not so easy as it sounds).
 

Daniel

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
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Originally posted by: PrinceofWands


My overall outlook is pretty much polar opposite to IloveDivx, although I agree with many of his assessments. Personally, I don't think fighting is EVER a sport, nor a form of exercise (although it will help keep you in shape). I also don't think anyone who is only a physical fighter is worth a crap in actual combat. I believe any truely effective warrior develops a 3 tiered training system and lifestyle, encompassing physical training, mental aptitude, and spiritual awareness. That sounds hokey to many, and that's fine. But all the physical conditioning in the world will NOT help you if you're taken by surprise, and only mental training conditions that. Only mental training prepares you to use your environment, to improvise, or even better, to talk your way out of a fight (which is a far better outcome even than winning a fight). As for spiritual, you can call it something else if you're uncomfortable with the term, but if you aren't in control of your emotions, you will lose. If you aren't willing to take a life (or at least ruin one) then maybe you shouldn't be in the situation. Only through careful exploration of the self can you come to terms with these limitations. What's more, deep conditioning of the spirit heightens your respect for and understanding of life. It raises your compassion and empathy. These things will help avoid more fights than any other training. I'm far more afraid of someone who is 5'5 145lbs calm, aware, and knowledgable, than someone who is 6'5 250lbs and blinded by rage. I've faced both types. I'm not sure I would have won against the calm man had it come to blows. The big freak was relatively simple by comparison.

Hokey... not in the least. Nice post.

 

iamme

Lifer
Jul 21, 2001
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Play lots of Streetfighter and learn to shoot fireballs from your hands.

Now that's badass.

I'd piss my pants if someone "Ha-ryu-ken!"-ed a fireball at me.
 
Dec 28, 2001
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Originally posted by: iamme
Play lots of Streetfighter and learn to shoot fireballs from your hands.

Now that's badass.

I'd piss my pants if someone "Ha-ryu-ken!"-ed a fireball at me.



:D
 

Zclyh3

Banned
Oct 16, 2001
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uhhh, okay dude, keep believing your martial arts work on the street. go to bars and get into fights and you'll see what happens. you can seriously tell me that a kung fu guy can handle a jujitsu guy???? come on......get a grip on reality. kung fu (and even muay tai and any other stand up fights) can't handle jujitsu. and when it comes to kung fu/whatever/shaolin vs muay tai, muay tai dominates completely. ever been kicked to the thigh by a muay tai fighter? ever feel what that felt like? none of that lotus blosom cr@p is gonna do jack when you can't feel your legs. i've seen tapes after tapes after tapes of muay tai vs kung fu fighters. those chinese guys goes to thailand thinking their chi can help them out....please. i haven't beaten them all but i've beaten all the ones i've been matched up against. so there you go. kung fu is cool for the discipline and all that good stuff, but if we're talking about fighting, then muay tai or jujitsu all the way. if you dont' believe me, just enter a pankration tournament. you'll see what happens. or if you have more balls, go into a cage match....use your wing tsung and see how effect it is when a guy goes brawling at you and takes you to the ground. have you ever seen any ufc (ultimate fighting championship...no holds barred stuff) fighters say they have kung fu back ground? the guys that have taken tkd are embarassed to admit they have done it. when they're ask what background they have, they either say, jujitsu, muay tai, boxing, wrestling, or karate....never tkd and definitely not kung fu (and when i say kung fu, i'm talking about tai chi, northern shaolin, all of them). don't read your freaken books and learn your histories and think you know everything. go out and try it for yourself. i've done national karate tournaments and all that junk. i've done pankration matches, street fights, all that stuff. i have enough experience with actual fighting involving gloves/fists. no need for any more arguments, just enter a pankration tourney and then talk to me some more. if you kick the cr@p out of the other guys, send me a pm and i'll apologize sincerely.

Too bad Bruce Lee ain't alive. If he was, I want him to fight ilovedivx. He'll show you Wing Cheung style. Of course...he would be in his 60s. And of course, there's nothing to argue about. Whatever martial arts works for you, then it works. As long as you can protect yourself, then that's enough. You might want to recall a scene in Return of the Dragon where Bruce Lee states that as long as you can protect yourself, then you should learn it. You should be baised about a style. And plus, he even said THERE IS NO DIFFERENT STYLE. We all fight the same way with two arms, two legs. Listen to his philosophy, he's the man when it comes to martial arts.

 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
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Does freestyle count? I wrestled for 8 years and never lost a fight to anyone 1 on 1
rolleye.gif
a reverse headlock and your finished.

IMO in real fighting submission holds are very deadly, painful and you can make your opponent admit defeat and beg for mercy. Or you can sufficate him and walk away without serious injury to either party.
 

LethalWolfe

Diamond Member
Apr 14, 2001
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Time for some more 2 cents...

If you are looking at this from a self-defense angle only then don't go w/martial arts. Find some place that teaches hand-to-hand combat and self-defense. They'll focus on practical, real world situations and it will probably be the best thing.

If you want more out of it than self-defense then take some of the other posts talking about martial arts to heart.

Lastly, my major problem w/people citing UFC, and other sports, to back up their cliams that style X is better than style Y is that sports don't have crap to do w/self-defense. If all you did was learn the fastest way to maim and/or kill someone you wouldn't do very well in UFC 'cause the object isn't to maim or kill. But I bet you'd do pretty damn good if attacked on the street (where it really is no-holds-barred).

Maybe this is just my sentiment but if someone attacks me my goal is to disable their ability to harm me as quickly as possible. If that means my first strike (or series of strikes) breaks a bone or renders a joint useless so be it. I'm 5'8" 140lbs. I don't have the size to effectively grapple w/bigger guys and I don't have the strength to trade punchs. Two things I do have are "surprise" (9/10 guys think I'm an easy target 'cause I'm smaller than they are) and the williness to cripple my attacker on my initial strike. None of this macho, chest beating, I'll-hit-you/you-hit-me crap....


Lethal
 

iamme

Lifer
Jul 21, 2001
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Originally posted by: Carbonyl
Does freestyle count? I wrestled for 8 years and never lost a fight to anyone 1 on 1
rolleye.gif
a reverse headlock and your finished.

IMO in real fighting submission holds are very deadly, painful and you can make your opponent admit defeat and beg for mercy. Or you can sufficate him and walk away without serious injury to either party.

I was just going ask about that. With most fights going to the ground, wouldn't it be wise to learn freestyle wrestling? I'm thinking that it would take alot shorter to master wrestling than master any sort of martial arts. Just wondering.

That said, one Sonic Boom to the head, and that's your ass....
 

iamme

Lifer
Jul 21, 2001
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Were could one learn wrestling? Besides traveling back in time and joining your high school wrestling team....

 

Masas

Senior member
Feb 11, 2001
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Originally posted by: LethalWolfe

If you are looking at this from a self-defense angle only then don't go w/martial arts. Find some place that teaches hand-to-hand combat and self-defense. They'll focus on practical, real world situations and it will probably be the best thing.


Agreed. go take some self-defense classes...preferably taught the same way the US Marines learn their stuff...
most of their stuff is built on physical fitness, not so much muscle mass...they aim to maim and cripple so you better be able to handle it tho...

or you can take a combination which always works...for instance (since i've taken the two)...
taking taekwondo helped me out with flexibility and a lot of speed and stuff...but it is pretty weak if someone wants to grapple...
so i took up a bit of hapkido...which is a lot of grappling/twisting/choking and stuff...with TKD it lets you stay outside with kicks which will generally
ALWAYS be outside the reach of a punch...and even though refereed TKD doesn't allow lower kicks and such...you should be able to adapt VERY easily if needed... and with hapkido any close range fighting would be easier to handle, since it teaches holds, throws, chokes, and reversals (using the other person's attack/momentum to your advantage)...

but the best way would be to get some good running shoes and try to run a one minute mile and a 12 second 100 meter dash...

;)
 

LethalWolfe

Diamond Member
Apr 14, 2001
3,679
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Originally posted by: iamme
Originally posted by: Carbonyl
Does freestyle count? I wrestled for 8 years and never lost a fight to anyone 1 on 1
rolleye.gif
a reverse headlock and your finished.

IMO in real fighting submission holds are very deadly, painful and you can make your opponent admit defeat and beg for mercy. Or you can sufficate him and walk away without serious injury to either party.

I was just going ask about that. With most fights going to the ground, wouldn't it be wise to learn freestyle wrestling? I'm thinking that it would take alot shorter to master wrestling than master any sort of martial arts. Just wondering.

That said, one Sonic Boom to the head, and that's your ass....



Learning atleast basic grappling is a very good idea IMO, my only qualm w/grappling is if there is more than one attacker yer fubar. I mean, if yer kickin' someone's @ss it won't take long for his friends to jump into the fray.


Lethal
 

PistachioByAzul

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Why don't you try tai chi or yoga. Don't listen to all the internet proclaimed "martial artists"....that "mental bullsh!t" does matter, and it's relevant beyond fighting. Strength lies in softness.