What's the Answer in the Middle East?

[1prophet]

I chose other.

We are well behind this option, but I would prefer it.

Figure out an alternative energy source. Whatever it is and whatever it takes to get off of Middle Eastern oil. Strap a nuclear power plant to the hood of you car? Do it. Jam a wind mill into you skull? Do it.

The Middle East needs to get fucked. Let it rot in it own madness. It is rife with abuse, violence and people who don't want to enter the modern world. Let them live in dust. Let them murder one another. Let them be.

If we truly recognized and accepted what the Middle East is, we would have thought to ourselves; this place is crazy, let me make sure I don't have to rely on these nut jobs... And, we would have started looking into alternative energy sources.

Instead, we saw an oppressed region and figured we would get in on the take.

It's done. The juice is not worth the squeeze - or whatever "control" or influence we think we have.

The Middle East is chained to old ideas; slavery, oppression and extremism. And, if the people don't like it, let them revolt and push for a change at the cost of their own blood - not ours, because we want to get at their resources.

Let them be and let them figure it out. Not even one American life is worth a nation of Middle Eastern people - especially in the name of oil.

My view is secure an alternative energy source (which we could have figured out already in the last 50 years) and get the fuck out.

I like it!

Easy to like, but difficult to implement because we are taught to be accountants that have to justify spending $30,000 on solar panels for our roof, but don't think twice about buying a boat, sports car, other expensive toy for twice that amount in order to keep up with the Joneses that ends up sitting and eventually for sale because of the cost of use or repairs.

 

[sm625]

The number one thing to do would be to stop arming them.

Once upon a time it could have been argued that mideast crude was a national security issue. At the current rate of consumption expansion, Saudi Arabia will cease to be a net exporter of crude within 15 years. It might even be 12 years. Not many people realize that, but it kind of puts Iraq's oil reserves into perspective. Iraq consumes a very small portion of it's reserves each year domestically whereas the Saudis consume almost 3 million barrels a day and rising rapidly. These trends were apparent even way back when the decision to invade Iraq was made.

 

[NTMBK]

[DickCheneyMode]

Stay the course- keep it simmering over for the next 50 years. Eventually the oil money will run out, and we can stop worrying about a Middle Eastern country getting their shit together and becoming a real rival.

If we get real lucky, all the chaos will bubble over into China and Russia, slow those guys down too.

[/DickCheneyMode]

 

[Sonikku]

Republicans never learn.

Or maybe they have. The more they support last cycle rebels, the more next cycle bad guys they have to fight later. Always a good excuse to expand the military complex even while domestic well being turns to shit.

 

[dank69]

Haha Roland Reagan

 

[Newell Steamer]

Easy to like, but difficult to implement because we are taught to be accountants that have to justify spending $30,000 on solar panels for our roof, but don't think twice about buying a boat, sports car, other expensive toy for twice that amount in order to keep up with the Joneses that ends up sitting and eventually for sale because of the cost of use or repairs.

Not only that, but moving away from oil is labeled as Liberal Eco-Kookism. Some people just love licking oil baron boots for generations to come...

 

[Pens1566]

Leave. Remove aid. Get off oil.

 

[bradly1101]

Easy to like, but difficult to implement because we are taught to be accountants that have to justify spending $30,000 on solar panels for our roof, but don't think twice about buying a boat, sports car, other expensive toy for twice that amount in order to keep up with the Joneses that ends up sitting and eventually for sale because of the cost of use or repairs.

Yeah, just like the war on drugs and immigration over the southern border, there are two messages:

1a: Consume (whose most apt definition is to destroy), bigger cars are better, travel a lot, luxury is best...
1b: Conserve, save, don't pollute, reduce carbon dioxide emissions...

2a: We want your drugs
2b: We don't want your drugs.

3a: Welcome, help wanted.
3b: Get out illegal immigrant.

I'm pretty old so I've been watching the U.S. dig its own holes since Vietnam. The installation of The Shah was a little before my time, but seems to be the seminal event that started us down this disastrous path. Western installed/supported leaders never seem to be able to stand as legitimate.

 

[bradly1101]

This, obviously. Ignore the moral implications for the moment and consider the current state of the middle east for a moment. Many individuals with perhaps less then wonderful views of America (Assad, Hezbollah, al quaida/al nusra, and the nutcases in ISIS) as well as powers with which we might at some point compete more directly (Russia, Iran) are spending lots of lives (in the first, primarily) and money (in both) to kill each other (edit: well we have already engaged in proxy stuff with russia of course...). Seriously, if we just stoke a couple sides up a bit (as we have done with the Kurds and certain Rebels, in addition to Iraq obviously) to keep it simmering forever, it will be the constantly turning garbage disposal for militants from the muslim world, as well as a certain number from the West.

Obviously, you sorta have to have basically no concern for the millions of people in that part of the world as well as taking necessary steps to avoid blowback (see: the russian airplane that was taken down by a bomb, as well as ISIS reaching out to here) but usually when your enemies are busy killing each other it isn't really that terrible of a thing. Arming the kurds seems the right choice, provided we can somehow tell Erdogan and turkey to go fck themselves without them becoming best buds with Russia. Of course, this all also relies on what number of which militants would exist in the world in the absence of this conflict and that is rather difficult to quantify.....

Yes but our presence and meddling in the region has not only sparked much of the conflict, but is also the gas that keeps it lit. Wouldn't our absence (if we didn't depend so much on the energy) have an opposite, soothing effect?

 

[5150Joker]

The answer to the US's problems are to pull entirely out of the Middle East, Europe and South East Asia. Let China/Russia/EU/ISIS/North Korea and whoever fight it out. At best, the US should simply play all sides and sell conventional weapons to all of them so it creates more manufacturing jobs at home, it's win/win.

Take that saved revenue and spend it on domestic programs (e.g. infrastructure and education subsidies) and while the rest of the world burns itself, the US becomes stronger. Yeah this is a simplified way of looking at things since commodity markets and shipping lanes can be interrupted but as a nation, the US is nearly self sufficient so this shouldn't have too big of an impact over the long term. I don't see China/Russia being stupid enough to go nuclear or disrupt the global economy much as they depend on it more than the US does. So if the Middle East wants to kill itself, go right ahead and allow it or let Russia step into that never ending quagmire.

I never really understood the American obsession with wanting to be the world police, as a rich and powerful nation, it's in our interest to be as isolationist as possible.

 

[alcoholbob]

Pulling out is impossible without the collapse of the petrodollar. If anything our involvement will be greater in the future.

 

[pcgeek11]

Pull out and them them stew in their own poop.

 

[Blanky]

Pull out. As long as most of the region adheres to Islam it is like trying to teach a dog how to drive a car. Socially, politically, these regions are hundreds of years behind the developed world, and we've seen continual evidence now that even when a dictator is removed the inhabitants continue to fight over their tribal or religious shit. Just leave them to it, they can't be helped.

 

[soulcougher73]

I chose other.

We are well behind this option, but I would prefer it.

Figure out an alternative energy source. Whatever it is and whatever it takes to get off of Middle Eastern oil. Strap a nuclear power plant to the hood of you car? Do it. Jam a wind mill into you skull? Do it.

The Middle East needs to get fucked. Let it rot in it own madness. It is rife with abuse, violence and people who don't want to enter the modern world. Let them live in dust. Let them murder one another. Let them be.

If we truly recognized and accepted what the Middle East is, we would have thought to ourselves; this place is crazy, let me make sure I don't have to rely on these nut jobs... And, we would have started looking into alternative energy sources.

Instead, we saw an oppressed region and figured we would get in on the take.

It's done. The juice is not worth the squeeze - or whatever "control" or influence we think we have.

The Middle East is chained to old ideas; slavery, oppression and extremism. And, if the people don't like it, let them revolt and push for a change at the cost of their own blood - not ours, because we want to get at their resources.

Let them be and let them figure it out. Not even one American life is worth a nation of Middle Eastern people - especially in the name of oil.

My view is secure an alternative energy source (which we could have figured out already in the last 50 years) and get the fuck out.

Basically this. Fuck them.

 

[TeeJay1952]

Hasn't there been war in Middle East since the arrival of Man? All throughout history the Fertile Crescent has been at war. Before Christ, Alexander the Great and Hammurabi, war.
Isn't it presumptuous of us to think we can solve something that is as old as the written word?

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Where's the poll option for "we're fucked no matter what" because we're fucked no matter what.

1) You can't fight wars hoping not to piss people off and that's how America fights now. We don't fully commit to winning because doing the things necessary to win wars looks bad on the news. We don't have the stomach to accept the collateral damage. If we "fight harder" we're fighting at 12% of the necessary level as opposed to 10% of the necessary level. Or we can up it to 20% of the necessary level or even 50% of the necessary level and make a bigger mess and look like bigger bullies and it still wouldn't be effective. And since we won't go to 100%, there's no amount of "fight the enemy harder" that will work. Fighting at 98% of the effort necessary to win means you lose.

2) We can't pull out. We could short term, just leave, let them kill each other for a while, wait for a winner. But it's silly to think that will work in the middle east. The oil is too important and if we pull out entirely that leaves the Russians and maybe the Chinese will get frisky and jump in too. Somebody is going to wind up controlling the oil and we can't risk it not being us. The only way we could possibly leave entirely would be if Russia and China agreed to leave entirely too and there's no way that will happen. As long as any other superpower is involved we have to be.

3) Staying the course is doomed to fail. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. We're failing miserably. Choosing to continue to fail miserably is a pretty stupid decision.

So what's the choice? We can't (or won't) escalate to the level necessary to win, we can't quit and we can't stay the course. Ideally you fence off the entire region, drop in enough guns so everyone has one, let them kill each other until there's only one faction left and then deal with, or eliminate, that faction. But as long as Russia is in there we can't do it that way. It doesn't matter what the pussies on the left want to do or what the warmongers on the right want to do, neither side has a workable solution. We're fucked no matter which side gets their way.

 

[brianmanahan]

humans need a common enemy. that is the thing that could bring us together.

we need to find an alien lifeform to fight against ASAP!

 

[retrospooty]

Pull out, pull way the hell out. The middle east is not fixable. Most places (like Iraq for example) have been taken by force and re-taken hundreds and hundreds of times. They are constantly killing each other and have been for 6000+ years literally since history began. When we leave it will go back to the way it was. It doesnt matter if we leave today, next year, in 10 years or in 100 years. As soon as we leave, the crazies walk right in. Since we dont plan to stay forever, we need to get the helll out. It's simply not a problem that the west can fix. If I thought for a minute we were doing any good or had any hope of dragging them into the modern era I would say stay, but there isnt.

 

[retrospooty]

We can't pull out. We could short term, just leave, let them kill each other for a while, wait for a winner. But it's silly to think that will work in the middle east

Leaving is the only option. Not that it "will work" but it's inevitable to fail no matter when we leave. They have been killing each other for 6000+ years and it doesn't matter when we leave it will go back to the way it was when we leave so everything we do there is in pointless. Every dollar spent and every life lost is a total waste. We need to lower our need for foreign oil so we can stay the hell out permanently.

 

[Sonikku]

Hey I have an idea. Let's shift the multi billion dollar subsidies to big oil to a true alternative energy source instead. (The trillion spent on the Iraq war alone would have been enough in hindsight) Something that in several years will mature into something renewable and cost effective. When that happens, and we wean ourselves off foreign oil, that is the moment the middle east loses its leverage and we can leave. With no fucks to give. We could also share it with the European union, so they have no fucks to give with Russia. I'm talking Win-Win here.

 

[dank69]

Hey I have an idea. Let's shift the multi billion dollar subsidies to big oil to a true alternative energy source instead. (The trillion spent on the Iraq war alone would have been enough in hindsight) Something that in several years will mature into something renewable and cost effective. When that happens, and we wean ourselves off foreign oil, that is the moment the middle east loses its leverage and we can leave. With no fucks to give. We could also share it with the European union, so they have no fucks to give with Russia. I'm talking Win-Win here.

Aren't rare earth metals the real draw in the ME these days? I thought we were a net producer of oil currently.