What's that noise? Oh yeah, that's the AWB's death rattle - AWB is HISTORY!

[exdeath]

I don't think there is a real need for bayonets and stuff like that either; thats just my personal taste.

If an SKS came with one standard, I would leave it there for completeness sake, but I'm not all that interested in flash suppressors and bayonets, no more than I am into bright blue headlights, spoilers, and fart cans on cars. My tastes are very clean, sleek, and functional where it counts.

But I don't go around taking away peoples bayonets and spoilers because I don't like them or think there is not a 'need' for them.

Flash suppressors and bayonets? Nah just give me a AI AWSM in .338 Lapua and I'll be happy.

 

[CFster]

Originally posted by: Vic
One last question for Childs and CFster:
Is there any conceivable reason why a law-abiding citizen should not be allowed to own and possess arms in order to defend himself against criminals (or even his government if it chooses to be unlawful)?

Yes. Because a large group of people are inherently stupid. And odds are you are going get several bad apples. Come on, if you could trust everybody, then there would be no laws.

Don't bring up the potential for crime, we're talking about law-abiding citizens.
Don't bring up the police, if a victim is even able to dial 911, they'll likely be dead by the time the cops show up.
Bring up something real. Why should a person who will likely never commit a single crime by owning a firearm not be allowed to own that firearm to defend themselves from those who will? Why should the government and those factions of the people who choose not to own arms fear these law-abiding citizens?

C'mon... let's hear it.

I accept the sad truth that there will always be guns. I also concede the point that some people feel the need to defend themselves with guns. I don't however see the need for your average shmoe to own a machine gun or grenade launcher. If he feels the need to wage war maybe he should join the army, or go take over a third world nation.

BTW, who was the guy who asked me to admit if I was against guns as a whole? I thought I had made that point. Of course I'm against them. I think the world would be a better place. Sure, there would still be people killing each other - but I'm a firm believer that there would be significantly less.

 

[CFster]

Originally posted by: hysperion
Why bother arguing with childs? everything you said has already been mentioned 10x and childs chose to ignore it...Truth is childs's ideas do stink of communism. I call a spade a spade...

But I understand your just trying to reason with the sheep- it can be frustrating some times can't it?

Phone call for you! It's the 50s!

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: CFster

I accept the sad truth that there will always be guns. I also concede the point that some people feel the need to defend themselves with guns. I don't however see the need for your average shmoe to own a machine gun or grenade launcher. If he feels the need to wage war maybe he should join the army, or go take over a third world nation.

BTW, who was the guy who asked me to admit if I was against guns as a whole? I thought I had made that point. Of course I'm against them. I think the world would be a better place. Sure, there would still be people killing each other - but I'm a firm believer that there would be significantly less.

FYI: People managed to kill eachother before guns were ever invented and in large numbers too.

 

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: CFster

I accept the sad truth that there will always be guns. I also concede the point that some people feel the need to defend themselves with guns. I don't however see the need for your average shmoe to own a machine gun or grenade launcher. If he feels the need to wage war maybe he should join the army, or go take over a third world nation.

BTW, who was the guy who asked me to admit if I was against guns as a whole? I thought I had made that point. Of course I'm against them. I think the world would be a better place. Sure, there would still be people killing each other - but I'm a firm believer that there would be significantly less.

FYI: People managed to kill eachother before guns were ever invented and in large numbers too.

Never! Guns are the root of all evil, murder, and destruction!

Originally posted by: CFster

Originally posted by: hysperion
Why bother arguing with childs? everything you said has already been mentioned 10x and childs chose to ignore it...Truth is childs's ideas do stink of communism. I call a spade a spade...

But I understand your just trying to reason with the sheep- it can be frustrating some times can't it?

Phone call for you! It's the 50s!

Wait, Communism doesn't exist anymore?

 

[Childs]

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: Childs

But you have the right to infringe on my rights to free speech? If thats the end of your story, then cya.

And again, show me where I said we should ban anything? You are fighting for something just to do it, and its your right, but it makes no sense within the context of the discussion. Perhaps you're thinking of other posters in this thread. Well, I suggest you quote them.

I believe you said it.... here:

Originally posted by: Childs

You gun nuts should buy some Enzyte instead.

I really dont see why anyone would want a grenade launcher and bayonet on their gun. If you really want to play with guns join the army and serve in Iraq. Otherwise, it seems kinda pathetic.

And right here:

Originally posted by: Childs

A gun collector doesnt play with guns, an overgrown 8 year old does. I question the need for those attachments on a gun. Many who purchase weapons to exercise their right to bear arms fire their weapons, whether its on a shooting range or when "hunting". What need would having those attachments serve to the collector or sportsman? Nothing anyone has said addresses that statement, just "its our right to". It maybe their newfound right, but that doesnt mean I can't question the need for such useless things. If its not useless then there is a problem, because these are weapons designed to kill people. There is no other use.

Perhaps you should reread those quotes. I question the need for them.

 

[Childs]

Originally posted by: hysperion
childs:
' because these are weapons designed to kill people. There is no other use. '


Sure there is: Can you not kill varmint with a rifle? Can you not go to a shooting range and enjoy yourself? Can you not collect them for their value? Can you not enjoy putting them together and accessorizing? I thought you said there was no other use.....no other use you approve of? O! that's what you meant!

I'm sorry you're right...none of those are NEEDS so they should all be illegal. And while we're at it- I don't NEED you to breathe so I think it should be illegal. In my opinion you are worthless and not needed so why don't we make a law against you? Sound ridiculous? That's how you sound to someone informed on the topic which obviously you are not.

And they are designed to kill people, making them the ideal weapon for home defense. IMO everyone should own one. Thanks for pointing that out. Why would I want a less capable weapon to protect my well-being? There is always "a time to kill'.....

Are you guys quoting without reading what you've quoted? What you quoted is very specific. Was a bayonet designed to kill gophers?

If you want to gore varmits with a bayonet, go ahead, but I will still question your sanity. Take it to the firing range? I'm sure the proprietors will love seeing you running up to the targets and poking them with your toy.

 

[Childs]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Childs
Quote where I said we should change the Bill of Rights? I said no such thing. The bulk of the commense sense posts essentially state that unless moderation is used, we will need laws for everything.

If you would seek to infringe on one single right guaranteed by the Bill of Rights by unconstitutional legislation, and not by lawful amendment, then I can no reason why you would not seek to infringe upon them all. The Law is the Law.

How am I infringing on anything? Where does it say I cant question the practical use of a bayonet or grenade launcher by a regular citizen??????

 

[Childs]

Originally posted by: Vic
Heh. I recall that post from another thread a few months back. :beer:

Unfortunately, I find myself forced to repeat myself on AT (OT and P&N) frequently. Some people just don't get it, and then there's always a fresh crop of uneducated n00bs that just got out of public school brainwashing with an image of the world that simply does not meet reality.

You repeat yourself beucase you don't actually read what other people are saying.

:beer:

And I don't think another beer will help that problem.

 

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: Childs

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: Childs

But you have the right to infringe on my rights to free speech? If thats the end of your story, then cya.

And again, show me where I said we should ban anything? You are fighting for something just to do it, and its your right, but it makes no sense within the context of the discussion. Perhaps you're thinking of other posters in this thread. Well, I suggest you quote them.

I believe you said it.... here:

Originally posted by: Childs

You gun nuts should buy some Enzyte instead.

I really dont see why anyone would want a grenade launcher and bayonet on their gun. If you really want to play with guns join the army and serve in Iraq. Otherwise, it seems kinda pathetic.

And right here:

Originally posted by: Childs

A gun collector doesnt play with guns, an overgrown 8 year old does. I question the need for those attachments on a gun. Many who purchase weapons to exercise their right to bear arms fire their weapons, whether its on a shooting range or when "hunting". What need would having those attachments serve to the collector or sportsman? Nothing anyone has said addresses that statement, just "its our right to". It maybe their newfound right, but that doesnt mean I can't question the need for such useless things. If its not useless then there is a problem, because these are weapons designed to kill people. There is no other use.

Perhaps you should reread those quotes. I question the need for them.

I read them just fine. Thanks for thinking of my comprehension skills though

If you don't need something, you're saying we shouldn't have them?

 

[Childs]

Originally posted by: hysperion

Originally posted by: Childs

Originally posted by: hysperion

Originally posted by: Childs

Originally posted by: Vic

One last question for Childs and CFster:
Is there any conceivable reason why a law-abiding citizen should not be allowed to own and possess arms in order to defend himself against criminals (or even his government if it chooses to be unlawful)?
Don't bring up the potential for crime, we're talking about law-abiding citizens.
Don't bring up the police, if a victim is even able to dial 911, they'll likely be dead by the time the cops show up.
Bring up something real. Why should a person who will likely never commit a single crime by owning a firearm not be allowed to own that firearm to defend themselves from those who will? Why should the government and those factions of the people who choose not to own arms fear these law-abiding citizens?

C'mon... let's hear it.

Question for you: Can you actually read my posts? Is there any conceivable reason why a law-abiding citizen should not be allowed to own and possess arms in order to defend himself against criminals (or even his government if it chooses to be unlawful)? This is not what I've been talking about over the last few pages. Bayonets and grenade launchers are. So you're going to purchase a bayonet, to attach to your rifle, so you can gore the intruder? That seems reasonable to you? You already have the rifle or handgun, what do you need the attachments for? Assuming that you're talking about home defense, which is what you question seems to be about.

LOL you're still talking about NEEDS. What if I want a bayonet lug on my weapon? I prefer to have one. Do I have to have a NEED? There is only 3 needs, food/shelter/clothing they teach that in like third grade. Maybe you haven't got to that point in school yet?

And you are still talking about WANTS without any reasoning behind it. You apparently want these attachments for your rifle, but for what purpose? Maybe you should take a reading comp class. My participation in this discussion started off with me not understanding why anyone would want, or need these things. Maybe you belong in the third grade, since third graders seem to only be able to demand things without articulating why.

This has already been said 18 times you very informed individual!.....Why should I repeat what others have stated as legit reasons again for you? EVERYONE listen up- from now on when we want something we have to explain ourselves as to why and be able to make a good case for it or we can't have it. Childs told me so....

And WANTS? or HAVES? I already own 2 bayonets that are located in my gun safe. I want them cus they look real pretty in the case. Is that good enough for you?

Thanks for skipping past my post where you were completely owned with your 'no other uses' crap. I guess you couldn't find a comeback for that once I pointed out 4.

For one thing, that was a big arse post and I already stated I would get to it when I got back from the dentist.

Secondly, you want your bayonets because they look real purty in the case eh? Well....it is a reason, I'll give that to you. I think its a stupid reason, but it certainly is a reason.

 

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: Childs

Originally posted by: Vic
Heh. I recall that post from another thread a few months back. :beer:

Unfortunately, I find myself forced to repeat myself on AT (OT and P&N) frequently. Some people just don't get it, and then there's always a fresh crop of uneducated n00bs that just got out of public school brainwashing with an image of the world that simply does not meet reality.

You repeat yourself beucase you don't actually read what other people are saying.

:beer:

And I don't think another beer will help that problem.

Excuse me? He repeats himself because you have a skull made of lead.

You keep going on and on about a grenade launcher, when it's nearly impossible to buy grenades. And rightly so, they are not arms, and should be restricted. But having a grenade launcher on your rifle causes you harm how? Same with a bayonet, if I REALLY wanted to stab someone, I would just carry a knife, it's a helluvalot easier to conceal too.

 

[Childs]

Originally posted by: hysperion
Why bother arguing with childs? everything you said has already been mentioned 10x and childs chose to ignore it...Truth is childs's ideas do stink of communism. I call a spade a spade...

But I understand your just trying to reason with the sheep- it can be frustrating some times can't it?

Namecalling eh? Why should I take anything you saw seriously, since you revert to infantile retorts? Your ideas stink of idiocy, as I do not believe I once said anything remotely close to supporting communism. I've been called it a couple of times in this thread, but according to you Bill of Rights defenders a communist is anyone who doesnt agree with them.

You should replace Charleston Heston as the NRA president, or whatever the hell he does when he shakes his gun at people.

 

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: Childs

Originally posted by: hysperion
Why bother arguing with childs? everything you said has already been mentioned 10x and childs chose to ignore it...Truth is childs's ideas do stink of communism. I call a spade a spade...

But I understand your just trying to reason with the sheep- it can be frustrating some times can't it?

Namecalling eh? Why should I take anything you saw seriously, since you revert to infantile retorts? Your ideas stink of idiocy, as I do not believe I once said anything remotely close to supporting communism. I've been called it a couple of times in this thread, but according to you Bill of Rights defenders a communist is anyone who doesnt agree with them.

You should replace Charleston Heston as the NRA president, or whatever the hell he does when he shakes his gun at people.

Hey now, what did South Carolina ever do to you??

 

[Childs]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Childs

Originally posted by: Vic

One last question for Childs and CFster:
Is there any conceivable reason why a law-abiding citizen should not be allowed to own and possess arms in order to defend himself against criminals (or even his government if it chooses to be unlawful)?
Don't bring up the potential for crime, we're talking about law-abiding citizens.
Don't bring up the police, if a victim is even able to dial 911, they'll likely be dead by the time the cops show up.
Bring up something real. Why should a person who will likely never commit a single crime by owning a firearm not be allowed to own that firearm to defend themselves from those who will? Why should the government and those factions of the people who choose not to own arms fear these law-abiding citizens?

C'mon... let's hear it.

Question for you: Can you actually read my posts? Is there any conceivable reason why a law-abiding citizen should not be allowed to own and possess arms in order to defend himself against criminals (or even his government if it chooses to be unlawful)? This is not what I've been talking about over the last few pages. Bayonets and grenade launchers are. So you're going to purchase a bayonet, to attach to your rifle, so you can gore the intruder? That seems reasonable to you? You already have the rifle or handgun, what do you need the attachments for? Assuming that you're talking about home defense, which is what you question seems to be about.

Jesus! Do we have to find a fuzzy bunny-loving use for a bayonet before you'll stop saying that we don't need them?

Apparently hysperion has uses for them. Killing varmits and looking purty in their cases. I'll stop saying it when:

1) When it sinks in that I never once said I'm trying to ban them
2) When you actually show me a use...hysperion excluded as I'm not sure he speaks for the majority, and I find his use idiotic enough to not change my point of view on them.

 

[hysperion]

Originally posted by: Childs

Originally posted by: hysperion
childs:
' because these are weapons designed to kill people. There is no other use. '


Sure there is: Can you not kill varmint with a rifle? Can you not go to a shooting range and enjoy yourself? Can you not collect them for their value? Can you not enjoy putting them together and accessorizing? I thought you said there was no other use.....no other use you approve of? O! that's what you meant!

I'm sorry you're right...none of those are NEEDS so they should all be illegal. And while we're at it- I don't NEED you to breathe so I think it should be illegal. In my opinion you are worthless and not needed so why don't we make a law against you? Sound ridiculous? That's how you sound to someone informed on the topic which obviously you are not.

And they are designed to kill people, making them the ideal weapon for home defense. IMO everyone should own one. Thanks for pointing that out. Why would I want a less capable weapon to protect my well-being? There is always "a time to kill'.....

Are you guys quoting without reading what you've quoted? What you quoted is very specific. Was a bayonet designed to kill gophers?

If you want to gore varmits with a bayonet, go ahead, but I will still question your sanity. Take it to the firing range? I'm sure the proprietors will love seeing you running up to the targets and poking them with your toy.

LOL you're hilarious...you completely ignored the second part of your quote...and then try to go around the issue. You specifically said "there is no other use" referring to the "so called" assault rifles....I pointed out 4 and you ask me if I read what you quoted? That's laughable but contines on your pattern of talking out the backside... If you were referring to bayonets there are NUMEROUS uses for bayonet. First off it is usually the only issued knife you have if you're in the military. It among other things, is used for cutting wire (gasp)- it has a piece on the carrying case just to help with this task and generally any other use you can think of for a knife. If you're not in the military- it can be used as a knife because OMG- it is one! So if you think the only use of a knife is to kill people then you need help. And if you don't need help we better start banning all knives because some people might use them illegally.

 

[Darilus]

Originally posted by: CFster

I accept the sad truth that there will always be guns. I also concede the point that some people feel the need to defend themselves with guns. I don't however see the need for your average shmoe to own a machine gun or grenade launcher. If he feels the need to wage war maybe he should join the army, or go take over a third world nation.

The AWB doesn't affect machine guns or grenades. I think that's been stated many, many times. Why don't you stick to the issues at hand?

 

[hysperion]

Originally posted by: Childs

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Childs

Originally posted by: Vic

One last question for Childs and CFster:
Is there any conceivable reason why a law-abiding citizen should not be allowed to own and possess arms in order to defend himself against criminals (or even his government if it chooses to be unlawful)?
Don't bring up the potential for crime, we're talking about law-abiding citizens.
Don't bring up the police, if a victim is even able to dial 911, they'll likely be dead by the time the cops show up.
Bring up something real. Why should a person who will likely never commit a single crime by owning a firearm not be allowed to own that firearm to defend themselves from those who will? Why should the government and those factions of the people who choose not to own arms fear these law-abiding citizens?

C'mon... let's hear it.

Question for you: Can you actually read my posts? Is there any conceivable reason why a law-abiding citizen should not be allowed to own and possess arms in order to defend himself against criminals (or even his government if it chooses to be unlawful)? This is not what I've been talking about over the last few pages. Bayonets and grenade launchers are. So you're going to purchase a bayonet, to attach to your rifle, so you can gore the intruder? That seems reasonable to you? You already have the rifle or handgun, what do you need the attachments for? Assuming that you're talking about home defense, which is what you question seems to be about.

Jesus! Do we have to find a fuzzy bunny-loving use for a bayonet before you'll stop saying that we don't need them?

Apparently hysperion has uses for them. Killing varmits and looking purty in their cases. I'll stop saying it when:

1) When it sinks in that I never once said I'm trying to ban them
2) When you actually show me a use...hysperion excluded as I'm not sure he speaks for the majority, and I find his use idiotic enough to not change my point of view on them.

Why does anyone have to give you a use!? I've given you 2 and while they were satiracle....they make more sense then what you've written in this thread.

 

[Childs]

Originally posted by: mwtgg
I read them just fine. Thanks for thinking of my comprehension skills though

If you don't need something, you're saying we shouldn't have them?

I'm saying I don't understand the need for them. I'm saying more than likely you don't need them. Do I think you should have them? Well, no. Does that mean I'm going to be the Grinch and take your toys away? Not likely. I'm not a Senator or some lawmaker. The want, or need for a weapons is what I'm questioning. If you disagree with my statement, tell me why you think you need or want a bayonet or grenade launcher, tell me why. If you don't want to, well, its your right, but then if the goal was to challenge my point of view, that does nothing to change it.

 

[hysperion]

Originally posted by: Darilus

Originally posted by: CFster

I accept the sad truth that there will always be guns. I also concede the point that some people feel the need to defend themselves with guns. I don't however see the need for your average shmoe to own a machine gun or grenade launcher. If he feels the need to wage war maybe he should join the army, or go take over a third world nation.

The AWB doesn't affect machine guns or grenades. I think that's been stated many, many times. Why don't you stick to the issues at hand?

Because he's ignorant and has no clue what the AWB is. Can't really blame him, the media has portrayed it this way. I challenge you to go to www.awbansunset.com and come back with a logical argument CFster...

Not only that he's already stated he thinks all guns should be banned. So even if there isn't a reason for a specific gun law, as long as it's anti-gun, he'll defend it using illogical uninformed arguments.

 

[Childs]

Originally posted by: mwtgg
Excuse me? He repeats himself because you have a skull made of lead.

You keep going on and on about a grenade launcher, when it's nearly impossible to buy grenades. And rightly so, they are not arms, and should be restricted. But having a grenade launcher on your rifle causes you harm how? Same with a bayonet, if I REALLY wanted to stab someone, I would just carry a knife, it's a helluvalot easier to conceal too.

Well, if the grenades are restricted, who whole point of attaching the launcher to you rifle would be???? And for the record, I don't see why someone would want to conceal a knife either. Its also kinda against the law.

Now try really hard to think of he repeats himself. Because only one or two people actually addressed what I said, not what I didn't say, or what they think I implied. Vic isnt, he just repeats the same thing over and over thinking somehow what he is saying is applicable to my statement. Well, it is not. Repeating his misguided retort to my statement changes nothing, because he is not addressing any of them.

 

[Childs]

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: Childs

Originally posted by: hysperion
Why bother arguing with childs? everything you said has already been mentioned 10x and childs chose to ignore it...Truth is childs's ideas do stink of communism. I call a spade a spade...

But I understand your just trying to reason with the sheep- it can be frustrating some times can't it?

Namecalling eh? Why should I take anything you saw seriously, since you revert to infantile retorts? Your ideas stink of idiocy, as I do not believe I once said anything remotely close to supporting communism. I've been called it a couple of times in this thread, but according to you Bill of Rights defenders a communist is anyone who doesnt agree with them.

You should replace Charleston Heston as the NRA president, or whatever the hell he does when he shakes his gun at people.

Hey now, what did South Carolina ever do to you??

They gored my rabbit with a bayonet.

 

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: Childs

Originally posted by: mwtgg
I read them just fine. Thanks for thinking of my comprehension skills though

If you don't need something, you're saying we shouldn't have them?

I'm saying I don't understand the need for them. I'm saying more than likely you don't need them. Do I think you should have them? Well, no. Does that mean I'm going to be the Grinch and take your toys away? Not likely. I'm not a Senator or some lawmaker. The want, or need for a weapons is what I'm questioning. If you disagree with my statement, tell me why you think you need or want a bayonet or grenade launcher, tell me why. If you don't want to, well, its your right, but then if the goal was to challenge my point of view, that does nothing to change it.

Well, I've said this before, but I don't own any type of firearm. But if I wanted to, couldn't I just duct tape a knife onto a rifle? I really wasn't aware someone needed a reason.

See, it's kinda like me saying, "Ok, I don't see why you should have the right to free speech, but I'll let you have it if you give me a good reason as to why you need it."

 

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: Childs

Originally posted by: mwtgg
Excuse me? He repeats himself because you have a skull made of lead.

You keep going on and on about a grenade launcher, when it's nearly impossible to buy grenades. And rightly so, they are not arms, and should be restricted. But having a grenade launcher on your rifle causes you harm how? Same with a bayonet, if I REALLY wanted to stab someone, I would just carry a knife, it's a helluvalot easier to conceal too.

Well, if the grenades are restricted, who whole point of attaching the launcher to you rifle would be???? And for the record, I don't see why someone would want to conceal a knife either. Its also kinda against the law.

That's not.... entirely true. In PA, I think I am allowed to carry a blade up to three inches.

 

[Howard]

hysperion, this is what Childs said.

It maybe their newfound right, but that doesnt mean I can't question the need for such useless things. If its not useless then there is a problem, because these are weapons designed to kill people. There is no other use.

He is talking about the "useless attachments", not guns themselves. I hope this clears up some confusion.

Originally posted by: CFster

Originally posted by: Vic
One last question for Childs and CFster:
Is there any conceivable reason why a law-abiding citizen should not be allowed to own and possess arms in order to defend himself against criminals (or even his government if it chooses to be unlawful)?

Yes. Because a large group of people are inherently stupid. And odds are you are going get several bad apples. Come on, if you could trust everybody, then there would be no laws.Let's say that somehow the Constitution was changed to remove the Second Amendment. How would you enforce the no-firearms rule?

Don't bring up the potential for crime, we're talking about law-abiding citizens.
Don't bring up the police, if a victim is even able to dial 911, they'll likely be dead by the time the cops show up.
Bring up something real. Why should a person who will likely never commit a single crime by owning a firearm not be allowed to own that firearm to defend themselves from those who will? Why should the government and those factions of the people who choose not to own arms fear these law-abiding citizens?

C'mon... let's hear it.

I accept the sad truth that there will always be guns. I also concede the point that some people feel the need to defend themselves with guns. I don't however see the need for your average shmoe to own a machine gun or grenade launcher. If he feels the need to wage war maybe he should join the army, or go take over a third world nation This is getting ridiculous. What connection is there between wanting (I'll agree that anybody who thinks they NEED one is delusional) a machine gun or grenade launcher/launcher attachment have to do with wanting/needing (WTF) to wage war?.

BTW, who was the guy who asked me to admit if I was against guns as a whole? I thought I had made that point. Of course I'm against them. I think the world would be a better place. Sure, there would still be people killing each other - but I'm a firm believer that there would be significantly less.

If I have the right of it, you have to jump through quite a few hoops to legally own an automatic firearm. About grenade launchers... Why do you and Childs keep rehashing that point? What wrong can you do with a grenade launcher?

2) When you actually show me a use...hysperion excluded as I'm not sure he speaks for the majority, and I find his use idiotic enough to not change my point of view on them.

Fine, I'll cave in and say that we (I?) don't need them. We also don't need a hell of a lot of things. So what do you plan to do? Was all this wordplay solely for the purpose of getting us to agree with you?