What's so bad about Citizen's United again?

[Jhhnn]

So you are agreeing with me, that those who do a crappy job cannot be fired because they are in a union.

You should have simply said so from the start.

So you're trolling in a deliberately obtuse way, right?

Generally speaking, individuals who are deemed to have committed an offense worthy of termination are immediately suspended w/o pay pending further investigation. Formal charges are then formulated, and the individual has the right to answer them w/ assistance from the Union. This usually occurs at 2 or 3 levels in meetings with management. If management insists on termination, that's what happens, and the Union may or may not demand arbitration, depending on the desires of the individual, the circumstances & a vote by members of the Local. Management & Union agree on a professional arbitrator, & a date is set for a hearing, often far in the future from the original offense. The arbitration process often lasts for a year or more, during which time the offender is terminated w/o pay.

Anybody who claims that it's impossible to get fired from a Union job is extremely ignorant or lying, take your pick.

Which has nothing to do with the subject at hand, and is just a duh-version into the well worn path of conservative pissing & moaning.

 

[fskimospy]

So you're trolling in a deliberately obtuse way, right?

Generally speaking, individuals who are deemed to have committed an offense worthy of termination are immediately suspended w/o pay pending further investigation. Formal charges are then formulated, and the individual has the right to answer them w/ assistance from the Union. This usually occurs at 2 or 3 levels in meetings with management. If management insists on termination, that's what happens, and the Union may or may not demand arbitration, depending on the desires of the individual, the circumstances & a vote by members of the Local. Management & Union agree on a professional arbitrator, & a date is set for a hearing, often far in the future from the original offense. The arbitration process often lasts for a year or more, during which time the offender is terminated w/o pay.

Anybody who claims that it's impossible to get fired from a Union job is extremely ignorant or lying, take your pick.

Which has nothing to do with the subject at hand, and is just a duh-version into the well worn path of conservative pissing & moaning.

Hey man, you new here? Trolling in a deliberately obtuse way is sort of his thing, haha.

 

[cybrsage]

So you're trolling in a deliberately obtuse way, right?

So you are saying the reports are wrong and that they guys who were sleeping instead of working were fired? What an odd position to take. Have anything to back that up?

Or are you agreeing with me that those who did a crappy job are not fired for it?

You really cannot have it both ways.

 

[cybrsage]

You did not show it. The actions of a single individual does not give us conclusions about an entire workforce any more than the preferences of a single voter gives us conclusions about who will win an election.

I continue to eagerly await evidence to back up your claims. Why is this so hard for you?

You think several people are a single person? It explains much about your position.

 

[fskimospy]

You think several people are a single person? It explains much about your position.

lol. I'm going to take this as an admission that you have no evidence to back up your position.

All I asked for were some simple statistics comparing union and non-union shops. Such a simple request, but something you can't seem to provide. Gee, I wonder why?

 

[cybrsage]

lol. I'm going to take this as an admission that you have no evidence to back up your position.

If it helps you keep your false world view, pretend as much as you like, you will do it without my permission anyway.

All I asked for were some simple statistics comparing union and non-union shops. Such a simple request, but something you can't seem to provide. Gee, I wonder why?

I show you proof, you pretend it is not real. Why show you more proof for you to just pretend it is not real?

 

[fskimospy]

If it helps you keep your false world view, pretend as much as you like, you will do it without my permission anyway.

I made a simple request, you can't seem to do it.

I show you proof, you pretend it is not real. Why show you more proof for you to just pretend it is not real?

If I tell you a story about how some workers at a Wal-Mart were sleeping on the job, that wouldn't count as counter-evidence either. You should have learned the basic rules of evidence a long time ago. Do you understand why anecdotal evidence is terrible?

Show me statistics with a valid sample size. Show me real data. You either can't, or won't back up your opinion with facts because you either don't know where to find them or know that they will work against you.

Or I guess you could keep trolling through acting deliberately obtuse. It is sort of your thing.

 

[cybrsage]

I made a simple request, you can't seem to do it.

You said this already, and I already replied.

 

[fskimospy]

You said this already, and I already replied.

You have not. Put up, or shut up.

 

[Jhhnn]

So you are saying the reports are wrong and that they guys who were sleeping instead of working were fired? What an odd position to take. Have anything to back that up?

Or are you agreeing with me that those who did a crappy job are not fired for it?

You really cannot have it both ways.

In the particular instance, the arbitrator held that termination was an excessive penalty. Maybe that had something to do with the fact that both he and his supervisor were busted sleeping.

In the bizzarro world of Wingnutlandia, that means that no Union worker is ever fired for cause, right?

That was your contention, that it's "impossible" to fire Union workers. Feel free to modify that contention to match reality.

Highly unlikely, I know.

 

[cybrsage]

In the particular instance, the arbitrator held that termination was an excessive penalty. Maybe that had something to do with the fact that both he and his supervisor were busted sleeping.

It means BOTH of them should have been fired.

 

[cybrsage]

You have not. Put up, or shut up.

Sure I did, you simply did not like it so you pretend I did not. I suggest you follow the latter half of your last sentence.

 

[fskimospy]

Sure I did, you simply did not like it so you pretend I did not. I suggest you follow the latter half of your last sentence.

You need to go learn what evidence is. People are caught sleeping on the job all the time in a wide variety of different jobs. This says nothing as to whether a unionized or nonunion workforce is more productive. For that you would need actual statistics, numbers, etc.

For the third or fourth time, please provide actual quantitative evidence to back up your assertion. This is not difficult, you will only be unable to do so if your opinion is unsupportable.