WHAT'S NEXT FOR LIBERALISM?

[theeedude]

What was next for liberalism in 1928, when Democrats also got swept (and, coincidentally, stock market also rallied)? Quite a bright future, as a matter of fact.

 

[jammix]

Detachment and separation from the red states so the blue states can finally create their utopia without interference. It's pretty obvious the moral imperatives of both sides are in near complete and utter opposition and that many votes nowadays are strictly an exercise in negative partisanship of keeping the "evil" other side out of power.

Please have your own countries, liberals. I would love it. Tax everyone into oblivion, everyone on welfare, then watch businesses leave and watch your economy collapse. Also, ban all the guns, and scratch your head while criminals continue to kill people (now with impunity). Do it.
The United States of America was BUILT on RIGHT WING IDEAS!!! obviously the conservative state would prosper..... its the reason why America became prosperous.

 

[Brainonska511]

The United States of America was BUILT on RIGHT WING IDEAS!!! obviously the conservative state would prosper..... its the reason why America became prosperous.

Yes, a liberal democracy was founded on "right wing ideas". Good one.

 

[Moonbeam]

Please have your own countries, liberals. I would love it. Tax everyone into oblivion, everyone on welfare, then watch businesses leave and watch your economy collapse. Also, ban all the guns, and scratch your head while criminals continue to kill people (now with impunity). Do it.
The United States of America was BUILT on RIGHT WING IDEAS!!! obviously the conservative state would prosper..... its the reason why America became prosperous.

And why California is the seventh largest economy in the world.

 

[Commodus]

Detachment and separation from the red states so the blue states can finally create their utopia without interference. It's pretty obvious the moral imperatives of both sides are in near complete and utter opposition and that many votes nowadays are strictly an exercise in negative partisanship of keeping the "evil" other side out of power.

I hope not. At the moment, all I want from the right is some respect, intelligence and willingness to make reasonable compromises. Accept science instead of burying it; don't pretend you can turn back the clock on freedoms for women and minorities; don't oppose policies simply because your party didn't create them.

The problem, as you might guess, is that we're not getting those. The Trump administration feels like a bunch of 5th grade boys given control over the school cafeteria; all they want is free pizza all day every day, a total ban on vegetables and no girls allowed. There's no rationality, no subtlety, no balance.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Please have your own countries, liberals. I would love it. Tax everyone into oblivion, everyone on welfare, then watch businesses leave and watch your economy collapse. Also, ban all the guns, and scratch your head while criminals continue to kill people (now with impunity). Do it.
The United States of America was BUILT on RIGHT WING IDEAS!!! obviously the conservative state would prosper..... its the reason why America became prosperous.

I'll just leave this here, for our newest lead paint chip muncher to digest

 

[BurnItDwn]

Maybe we can make it so that more americans can vote, remove as much voter suppression as possible.

 

[jammix]

Yes, a liberal democracy was founded on "right wing ideas". Good one.

nobody talked about "liberal democracy". liberal democracy - Crazy leftie fools.

 

[zinfamous]

The United States of America was BUILT on RIGHT WING IDEAS!!! obviously the conservative state would prosper..... its the reason why America became prosperous.

So...not only are you a crazy person, you are profoundly uneducated. What a toolbag.

 

[jammix]

I'll just leave this here, for our newest lead paint chip muncher to digest

all I am seeing is the snarky liberals saying that 'Oh those bad Red states are irresponsible and welfare queens'.. except no one actually shows the data. Its some percentage of tax revenue, or per-capita, but nothing showing straight numbers. So California looks like its way way down on the list, except that 25% number is 25% of tax revenue, an enormous amount of money, many many billions of dollars. While Louisiana might take 40% of tax revenue, 40% of a few billions is still less in actual dollars than 25% of hundreds of billions. Totally dishonest and misleading. And of course the media is spewing these twisted facts to people, "Oh the Democrat states are less of a burden of the Federal Government than the Republican states!" they claim.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

keep looking for actual dollar amounts that states get in Federal Aid... but all I am seeing is the snarky liberals saying that 'Oh those bad Red states are irresponsible and welfare queens'.. except no one actually shows the data. Its some percentage of tax revenue, or per-capita, but nothing showing straight numbers. So California looks like its way way down on the list, except that 25% number is 25% of tax revenue, an enormous amount of money, many many billions of dollars. While Louisiana might take 40% of tax revenue, 40% of a few billions is still less in actual dollars than 25% of hundreds of billions. Totally dishonest and misleading. And of course the media is spewing these twisted facts to people, "Oh the Democrat states are less of a burden of the Federal Government than the Republican states!" they claim.

I cited a source, how about you do the same, chippy?

 

[glenn1]

I hope not. At the moment, all I want from the right is some respect, intelligence and willingness to make reasonable compromises. Accept science instead of burying it; don't pretend you can turn back the clock on freedoms for women and minorities; don't oppose policies simply because your party didn't create them.

The problem, as you might guess, is that we're not getting those. The Trump administration feels like a bunch of 5th grade boys given control over the school cafeteria; all they want is free pizza all day every day, a total ban on vegetables and no girls allowed. There's no rationality, no subtlety, no balance.

It's a little hard to say with a straight face that you want "respect" as your first desire when your side literally spent the entire election (and time since) comparing Trump to Hitler, calling anyone who supported enforcement of immigration laws as a xenophobic racist, et cetera. Respect needs to be earned and those behaviors mean your side did precious little earning. Not that Trump or the Republicans did any better with showing respect to earn it, but like it or not they were handed political power by voters so they get some default amount of respectability just by virtue of that (not matter how little deserved).

"Reasonable" is a key word here also since it's so objective. It's very akin to the old joke about "how long a minute is depends on which side of the bathroom door you're on." While I think most of Trump's ideas are nuts, I'd much prefer Dems spend their time in the minority being the voice of conscience on issues they've historically been associated with such as civil rights and privacy instead of just being one more cheerleader for the increasing surveillance state and thought police that we've drifted towards over the past 15-20 years or so.

 

[theeedude]

California is going to eat red states' lunches. Automation is going to take your jobs, no matter how cheap and desperate you make your labor, you can't outrun Moore's law. Car electrification and renewable energy is going to take away your natural resource rents. And then once you are sitting home on welfare, Hollywood and Silicon Valley is going to take its cut for keeping you entertained. California is the one who knocks

 

[BurnItDwn]

So...not only are you a crazy person, you are profoundly uneducated. What a toolbag.

One could argue that the economy of the country was built on the backs of slave labor.
One could argue that Slavery is a conservative idea, as it has existed in some form or another longer than recorded history.

So, maybe he has a point. American history is pretty fucking dark and brutal, and there is a lot that they omit in school.

 

[jammix]

I cited a source, how about you do the same, chippy?

http://ijr.com/2015/01/230371-2-map-shows-red-states-rely-federal-aid-looks-can-deceiving/

"In addition, the southern red states in the initial map of federal aid recipients are much more likely to have higher poverty rates. The impoverished, those who are more likely to need federal aid in a state, tend to vote Democratic according to Pew Research"

 

[imported_tajmahal]

keep looking for actual dollar amounts that states get in Federal Aid... but all I am seeing is the snarky liberals saying that 'Oh those bad Red states are irresponsible and welfare queens'.. except no one actually shows the data. Its some percentage of tax revenue, or per-capita, but nothing showing straight numbers. So California looks like its way way down on the list, except that 25% number is 25% of tax revenue, an enormous amount of money, many many billions of dollars. While Louisiana might take 40% of tax revenue, 40% of a few billions is still less in actual dollars than 25% of hundreds of billions. Totally dishonest and misleading. And of course the media is spewing these twisted facts to people, "Oh the Democrat states are less of a burden of the Federal Government than the Republican states!" they claim.

You can torture data to say anything you want it to say. The democrats are pretty famous for waterboarding data until it tells them Republicans are bad and evil and Democrats are sugar and spice.

 

[mikeymikec]

It's a little hard to say with a straight face that you want "respect" as your first desire when your side literally spent the entire election (and time since) comparing Trump to Hitler, calling anyone who supported enforcement of immigration laws as a xenophobic racist, et cetera.

"Mexicans are rapists"
"Let's make a registry of all Muslims in the US"
"Let's ban Muslims from immigrating to the US"

All three are pretty much textbook examples of xenophobia. Don't try to argue that we're all in one database or another or some similar disingenuous bullshit argument, because Obama would have caused you come out in hives if he proposed (e.g.) making a registry of all people in the US who refuse to acknowledge xenophobia. Of course, to make that example completely appropriate, the acknowledging xenophobia but would be the implication made, so the registry would perhaps target white conservatives?

If Trump's bigotry had been aimed at you, I strongly suspect you would be singing a different song now.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Well going by percentages, the red far outweigh the blue in receiving federal aid, aka welfare.

The 10 states receiving the most in federal aid as a percentage of their general revenue, in order, were:

1. Mississippi, 42.9% federal aid as percentage of general revenue
2. Louisiana, 41.9%
3. Tennessee, 39.5%
4. South Dakota, 39.0%
5. Missouri, 38.2%
6. Montana, 37.4%
7. Georgia, 37.3%
8. New Mexico, 36.6%
9. Alabama, 36.1%
10. Maine, 35.3%

Pretty simple math, if you ask me. 'percentage of their general revenue'
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/top-10-states-rely-most-federal-aid

 

[Bitek]

Please have your own countries, liberals. I would love it. Tax everyone into oblivion, everyone on welfare, then watch businesses leave and watch your economy collapse. Also, ban all the guns, and scratch your head while criminals continue to kill people (now with impunity). Do it.
The United States of America was BUILT on RIGHT WING IDEAS!!! obviously the conservative state would prosper..... its the reason why America became prosperous.

Liberals would take much of the economy with them then. Certainly the 21st century parts of it.

The red states left would just be middling religous petro/agrarian economy and rusting factories.

Sorta like Saudi Arabia, but with less oil, more pigs and cows, and way more Jesus.

In fact.... Throw in oligarchy, militarism, racist nationalism and you have Russia!

Now I understand why you all cream your pants over Putin. It's your aspiration for America!

 

[jammix]

Well going by percentages, the red far outweigh the blue in receiving federal aid, aka welfare.

The 10 states receiving the most in federal aid as a percentage of their general revenue, in order, were:

1. Mississippi, 42.9% federal aid as percentage of general revenue
2. Louisiana, 41.9%
3. Tennessee, 39.5%
4. South Dakota, 39.0%
5. Missouri, 38.2%
6. Montana, 37.4%
7. Georgia, 37.3%
8. New Mexico, 36.6%
9. Alabama, 36.1%
10. Maine, 35.3%

Pretty simple math, if you ask me. 'percentage of their general revenue'
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/top-10-states-rely-most-federal-aid

Are you going to deny the fact that most of the people who get federal aid are democrats? get the the democrats out of the equation from the red states and it's a whole different picture.

 

[Commodus]

It's a little hard to say with a straight face that you want "respect" as your first desire when your side literally spent the entire election (and time since) comparing Trump to Hitler, calling anyone who supported enforcement of immigration laws as a xenophobic racist, et cetera. Respect needs to be earned and those behaviors mean your side did precious little earning. Not that Trump or the Republicans did any better with showing respect to earn it, but like it or not they were handed political power by voters so they get some default amount of respectability just by virtue of that (not matter how little deserved).

"Reasonable" is a key word here also since it's so objective. It's very akin to the old joke about "how long a minute is depends on which side of the bathroom door you're on." While I think most of Trump's ideas are nuts, I'd much prefer Dems spend their time in the minority being the voice of conscience on issues they've historically been associated with such as civil rights and privacy instead of just being one more cheerleader for the increasing surveillance state and thought police that we've drifted towards over the past 15-20 years or so.

Well, I do think a lot of the left did get hyperbolic. There are uncomfortable parallels to fascism (particularly Trump's disdain for free speech), but my rule: the moment you paint the other side as the worst possible thing, they tune out. There has to be a sense that your ideological rival can cross a bridge and find middle ground if only they'd be willing to walk. That doesn't mean you excuse truly bad behavior, just that you don't become the irrational ideologue you hate.

The problem with the Democrats being in the minority with this administration is that it's hell-bent on ignoring any view other than its own. Nominating cabinet leaders who've wanted to destroy the very divisions they're tasked with running; stifling science that's 'inconvenient' for the fossil fuel industry; yearning to overturn Roe v. Wade and other rulings that have been respected by both sides for years or even decades. Combine that with the current "everything you're for, I'm against" stance of the broader Republican party and it's doubtful that the Democrats will get much meaningful input.

 

[UNCjigga]

Progressivism is alive and well, and pretty soon the right wing nutters will realize that we actually don't rely on big government in order to flourish. Trump and team can defund education back to the stone age, defund any branch of government employing scientists, censor and sue the media all they want--but you can't undo 50 years of progressive values and the impact it's had on American culture. The Left still has a hold on media, education (especially privately funded education & higher learning), Silicon Valley and even Corporate America as a whole (witness the HB2 blowback and what it did to McCrory.) Trump and team will try to dial it back and all that will do is inspire the next Woodstock generation to rebel and radicalize and move the mainstream further left. Conservative Supreme Court picks have quite a track record of moving left with mainstream America.

I really think that the biggest change Trump's administration can effect will be to shrink the size of the federal government and its agencies, and while short-term it will be painful (thousands of federal employees and contractors out of work) it may have net positive effects long term as government is streamlined, more efficient, more digital and more responsive with less bureaucratic waste.

But the better question will be what becomes of American Conservatism? What happens to the Party of Reagan under Trump--what happens to that Evangelical base? Trump may throw them a bone or two (Pence appeasement) but he doesn't really give a rat's ass about conservative values, and the Republican conservative hypocrisy has now been fully exposed. Perhaps we might finally get a federal government that's completely free of Christian conservative influence...who knows?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Are you going to deny the fact that most of the people who get federal aid are democrats? get the the democrats out of the equation from the red states and it's a whole different picture.

you have one source, using some fuzzy math to come to your conclusion. I have several sources citing the fact that the red states as a whole are on the govt teat a lot more than blue states are.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Most of the people who get federal aid are homeowners or parents of children. Those tax write offs, they are financial aid.

 

[umbrella39]

It's fun to watch the ALTrolls on this board ferociously logging in and out of their sock puppet accounts to yes man the guy working their mouths... LMAO