playing newer dx9 or good dx8 games like nfs:u will use it all up. I am more than confident that my 128 is gettin nearly if not completely used in such games.
playing newer dx9 or good dx8 games like nfs:u will use it all up. I am more than confident that my 128 is gettin nearly if not completely used in such games.
RussianSensation
Elite Member
- Sep 5, 2003
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Besides you could always adjust PC3200 ram from 166~200FSB (same memory speed) to run them in Sync mode anyways. So buying PC2700 is just stupid. Also A64 will use PC3200 for another 2+ years so you could reuse it later.
If you are a serious gamer
1. Radeon 9700Pro $165, 9800NP $173, or 9800Pro $200 or wait till the new cards come and these prices will drop
2. Upgrade the ram
3. Cpu is least important right now but if you got the $$$ do it.
BUT
if you are gonna upgrade the ram, cpu, motherboard, maybe you should consider getting a new system altogether and forget the aging socket 478 and 462. 939 comes out in May, 775 in June.
nitromullet
Diamond Member
- Jan 7, 2004
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I would get some PC3200 RAM now, and then wait until the new cards come out from nv and ati. Even if you don't decide to buy the latest generation card, the introduction should push prices on the current cards down. You ulimately need to upgrade the mobo/cpu.
Thanks for the feedback folks.
DerwenArtos12: That explains why NFS:U gets choppy at times. I'll see how 512MB RAM will help instead of changing the vid card for now. Since we're on the topic, is a 256MB vid card a necessity for current games?
Alkaline5: Can't find any mobile Bartons in the shops around my place. Since I managed to confirm that my CPU is a TBredB, I guess I can bump the FSB to 166 without any problems as long as the RAM holds up.
RussianSensation: How will a 9600 fare compared to the 9[78]00 series you mentioned? (Yes, yes, will Google it in a while
) You're rite, I won't be upgrading everything. The most I'll upgrade is the RAM and vid card from the feedback I get here. What's the diff between socket 939 and 775?
nitromullet: Thanks for the reminder. Forgot that ATI and nVidia will be coming out with their nex gen cards soon. Should be quite a nice price drop on current cards.
DerwenArtos12: That explains why NFS:U gets choppy at times. I'll see how 512MB RAM will help instead of changing the vid card for now. Since we're on the topic, is a 256MB vid card a necessity for current games?
Alkaline5: Can't find any mobile Bartons in the shops around my place. Since I managed to confirm that my CPU is a TBredB, I guess I can bump the FSB to 166 without any problems as long as the RAM holds up.
RussianSensation: How will a 9600 fare compared to the 9[78]00 series you mentioned? (Yes, yes, will Google it in a while
) You're rite, I won't be upgrading everything. The most I'll upgrade is the RAM and vid card from the feedback I get here. What's the diff between socket 939 and 775? nitromullet: Thanks for the reminder. Forgot that ATI and nVidia will be coming out with their nex gen cards soon. Should be quite a nice price drop on current cards.
RussianSensation
Elite Member
- Sep 5, 2003
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Originally posted by: ugh
How will a 9600 fare compared to the 9[78]00 series you mentioned? (Yes, yes, will Google it in a while
9700np/9700Pro/9800np/9800Pro will all be A LOT faster than a 9600 of any variety. Here is a comparison running Unreal with quality settings enabled. And i am sure you can find a lot of reviews on the web like this one. As you can tell the 9600 series is in a totally different league. It costs around $125 so you cannot ask more from it anyways. Socket 939 will include new Nforce 3 250 chipset and it replacement of the socket 754 for A64 cpu that will probably run from at least 3700+ to 5000+ cpus and socket 775 (socket T) is the replacement for the socket 478 for a P4 and that will also allow you to upgrade for a long time. both come with new PCI express videocard slot and 775 supports DDRII ram (which is too expensive and doesnt offer any negligible improvment in speed making it worthless for now) and will come in I915 and I925 flavours.
Disagree.
Get what you need now~ if ther eis no price difference between ddr33 and ddr400 chips then go for the 400, but if there is and you won't overclock...there is no need.
Why buy Pc3200 when by the time he goes for a major overhau la new ddr speed will be used. And if he plans on overclocking in the future, he will more than liekly need even faster ram...
Its like buying pc133 ram back with 100mhz fsb processors to "future proof" when in reality we switched over to DDR....
or for a better example...imagine something building a rig 2 years ago and buying 512 megs of pc2700 ram instead of pc2100 for their 2000+ (even though they aren't overclocking) to "future proof"....
now they want A64~ so much for pc2700 unless they want to take a preformance hit.
Bottom line: if you aren't going to overclock I see no need to "future proof", especially if it costs more $$$
Chumster
Senior member
- Apr 29, 2001
- 496
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- 0
It's almost eerie how closely your rig matches my own (check out Oberon in my Rigs section). I originally started with 256MB RAM and a GF4Ti4400 and have since upgraded both. The RAM was a nice addition, especially for the most resource hungry games. For example, if you are into the Battlefield series, you'll notice immediate benefits in load times before, after and during the game.
The video card upgrade (from GF4Ti4400 -> GFX5900NU) was much more noticeable during actual game play. Titles that chugged a bit on the 4400 now ran really well. Games like FarCry and Painkiller definitely run better and I can turn the details up a bit.
If I were you, I'd bring you RAM up to 512 MB first as it's relatively inexpensive. Upgrading the video card should also be a priority, but at the point it's probably best to wait for the 6800 series (either to buy or to reap the benefits of it pushing prices down).
Hope that helps.
Chum
nitromullet
Diamond Member
- Jan 7, 2004
- 9,031
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If he were buying a whole brand new rig right now I would agree with you that you really can't future proof. However, he is looking to get something to upgrade his current system, which is getting a bit slow. Judging from his post, it looks like he will be considering upgrading his cpu/mobo in the near future. Therefore, it is pretty sound advice to recommend that he get RAM that he can use in his current system and will most likely be able to use in a rig that he puts together within the next few months to a year. If he gets PC2100 now, he is wasting his money on something that he won't use in a new rig even if he builds it tomorrow.
Heres what i`d do;
1) Upgrade the RAM to at least 512mb PC3200.
2) Get a fancy cooler for the CPU, and OC the hell out of it.
3) Save up for a 9800pro, and sell the Ti4200.
4) Using the money for the Ti4200, put it away, and begin saving for a "big" upgrade after all the HW architecture changes have happened.
RussianSensation: Uhh... Just checked out the prices of the 9800's. The prices are wayyy too high. I can live on that amount of money for 4 months! I'll have to save up really badly... ARGH.. Thanks for clarifying the socket mess. I'll prolly wait for the new boards/chipsets to stabilize first b4 getting one. Perhaps a 2nd gen or so.
magomago: Just found out that my friend has an extra 512MB PC2700 stick lying around which he can let it go for a VERY, VERY low price (read: nearly for free). I'll definitely grab it and see what I can do with it. As for O/C-ing, since my mobo doesn't support the 1/5 or 1/6 divider, I'm stucked with unlocking the CPU. Though I'm not sure how high the multiplier can go on this mobo though. Experiment time
Chumster: Man, these vid cards are REALLY expensive. I can buy a good console by getting one. I guess I'll just settle for a mid-range one Thanks for the rec. though.
BoomAM: Like I mentioned above, I'm not sure how far I can OC the CPU with this mobo w/o having to unlock it as the PCI/AGP bus will be totally out of sync if I push it to 166Mhz.
magomago: Just found out that my friend has an extra 512MB PC2700 stick lying around which he can let it go for a VERY, VERY low price (read: nearly for free). I'll definitely grab it and see what I can do with it. As for O/C-ing, since my mobo doesn't support the 1/5 or 1/6 divider, I'm stucked with unlocking the CPU. Though I'm not sure how high the multiplier can go on this mobo though. Experiment time
Chumster: Man, these vid cards are REALLY expensive. I can buy a good console by getting one. I guess I'll just settle for a mid-range one
Thanks for the rec. though.BoomAM: Like I mentioned above, I'm not sure how far I can OC the CPU with this mobo w/o having to unlock it as the PCI/AGP bus will be totally out of sync if I push it to 166Mhz.
Doesnt your mobo support AGP/PCI locking? Even if it doesnt, you should be fine for a bit, even 30mhz PCI is reasonably stable on most systems.
Unfortunately not. I've been doing a LOT of digging but at the end of the day pple have proved it just doesn't. Only thing left to do is to try it out myself
RussianSensation
Elite Member
- Sep 5, 2003
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well if price is a concern for you then either get the 9600pro/xt or wait a bit for the 9800 series to come down in price.
Don't waste your money on slow memory or very minor upgrades. Your mobo/cpu is your bottleneck. I always want to do small upgrades on my PC, but always know that unless I go up on my mobo, I won't be doing myself justice. I had a ti200 and was doing okay with games....of course I'm not a big PC gamer since I have an xbox. In other words, I don't max out my settings in games. I just like playing without any lag.
Again, you do what you want, but you won't get very far on your chipset. Sell your cpu/mobo and get a new set. Be on the lookout for other upgrades such as RAM. You definitely need to get up to 512MB and should bump up to 2700 at least (kingston 512 is always available at $50AR). Anything over 512 is not high priority as such an upgrade over your video card. Wait for 64 prices too long and you'll pretty much have nothing to sell back.
Everyone wants 1GB of 3200 RAM and a 9800 pro. You said you didn't want to cripple your savings acct, right?
No brainer IMHO
Again, you do what you want, but you won't get very far on your chipset. Sell your cpu/mobo and get a new set. Be on the lookout for other upgrades such as RAM. You definitely need to get up to 512MB and should bump up to 2700 at least (kingston 512 is always available at $50AR). Anything over 512 is not high priority as such an upgrade over your video card. Wait for 64 prices too long and you'll pretty much have nothing to sell back.
Everyone wants 1GB of 3200 RAM and a 9800 pro. You said you didn't want to cripple your savings acct, right?
No brainer IMHO
w/ your rig I'd upgrade to 1gig of PC3200 or PC3500 memory then upgrade your video when you get more cash, I'd also looking into overclocking once I got the faster memory that cpu stepping you have was fairly OC'able Just my 2 cents...
i agree, i'm using 768 mb up from 512 and i see a big difference when i play bf1942 but then again you're on a budget so if you can slap in another 256 mb of ram into your system that would help too. you said you're into gaming and with the next gen of games coming out now it wouldn't be a bad idea to upgrade your graphics card. it's true, having a super fast graphics card and a slow cpu won't help your situation that much but that's ok 'cause being conscious of price considerations, it's alright to upgrade your parts one at a time until you can afford to.
Tango57: It's kinda hard to determine what is an 'ok' CPU to have with the upcoming graphics card. Having said that, I'm sure the CPU I have still has some life to it. But it's the mobo/memory performance which is lacking. Like I mentioned earlier, I'll be going to 512MB RAM first and see how market forces play around with the price of graphics cards.
RussianSensation
Elite Member
- Sep 5, 2003
- 19,458
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Everyone keeps telling you that your mobo/memory performance is unacceptable. But consider this a little closer:
Assume all other things being equal, if you just got faster ram and nforce 2 chipset mobo will that improve your gaming by more than 5%? No. Upgrading from KT266A/333/400/600 to an Nforce 2 mobo will give you a boost of maybe 2-3%. And since buying PC3200 ram will allow you to run your memory at 266 but at lower timings expect another 2-3% maybe. Now what is the cost of a good nforce 2 mobo and ram? AS much as a 9800Pro videocard. What would give you most bang for the buck right now? surely it is the videocard, not cpu, not mobo, and not necessarily faster ram, but more ram to 512.
Of course the recommendation to buy PC3200 is because you will be able to reuse it later for say A64 platform for the next 2 years -- should be still a standard. I think your best option right now would be to get 256mb PC3200. Socket 939 A64 is dual channel so it will probably have at least 3 slots. So you can then take this 256 and either get another 256 + 512 later to run them in dual channel or if it has 4 slots then you are in heaven cuz u'll be able to get a lot of ram. If you have some $$$ i'd definately go for 512 right now because 256 sticks are nto the best option. Then like you are thinking get the 9800Pro when the prices come down and use this rig for the next 4-5 months or how long it lasts. Then you simply do a full switch to A64 platform and forget upgrading to AXP or 478 sockets right now as they are dying. Hopefully they'll have a motherboard that has both AGP and PCI-express on board.
Also ask yourself how terrible is the lag in games? In which particular games is the computer lagging? It could be that if you play a lot of CPU intensive games only, all i've said above is not important. But if you play Halo, Far Cry, and other shader intesnive games, you can forget the cpu upgrade as that will do you no good. But like others have said about upgrading the chipset because your mobo is too old, that is a bad advice as that will not give you any negligble performance upgrade.
So either A) do a complete system overhaul in 6 months (right when hopefully Doom III, STALKER, and Half-Life 2 come out, socker 939 and 775 will be free of bugs and prices will have fallen on the old and even some new cards for sure)
B) get either 256 or 512 ram (at least PC3200) right now, and a 9800Pro. The only problem i have is that I think in 6 months even 6800 $299 will be about $220 so the Radeons will have to drop to about $120 or it will be unreasonable to get old technology. Of course then if you buy it now at $200 you'll lose some money as a result and speed. But I cant tell how slow the games run on your computer and just how badly you need this upgrade now......
Assume all other things being equal, if you just got faster ram and nforce 2 chipset mobo will that improve your gaming by more than 5%? No. Upgrading from KT266A/333/400/600 to an Nforce 2 mobo will give you a boost of maybe 2-3%. And since buying PC3200 ram will allow you to run your memory at 266 but at lower timings expect another 2-3% maybe. Now what is the cost of a good nforce 2 mobo and ram? AS much as a 9800Pro videocard. What would give you most bang for the buck right now? surely it is the videocard, not cpu, not mobo, and not necessarily faster ram, but more ram to 512.
Of course the recommendation to buy PC3200 is because you will be able to reuse it later for say A64 platform for the next 2 years -- should be still a standard. I think your best option right now would be to get 256mb PC3200. Socket 939 A64 is dual channel so it will probably have at least 3 slots. So you can then take this 256 and either get another 256 + 512 later to run them in dual channel or if it has 4 slots then you are in heaven cuz u'll be able to get a lot of ram. If you have some $$$ i'd definately go for 512 right now because 256 sticks are nto the best option. Then like you are thinking get the 9800Pro when the prices come down and use this rig for the next 4-5 months or how long it lasts. Then you simply do a full switch to A64 platform and forget upgrading to AXP or 478 sockets right now as they are dying. Hopefully they'll have a motherboard that has both AGP and PCI-express on board.
Also ask yourself how terrible is the lag in games? In which particular games is the computer lagging? It could be that if you play a lot of CPU intensive games only, all i've said above is not important. But if you play Halo, Far Cry, and other shader intesnive games, you can forget the cpu upgrade as that will do you no good. But like others have said about upgrading the chipset because your mobo is too old, that is a bad advice as that will not give you any negligble performance upgrade.
So either A) do a complete system overhaul in 6 months (right when hopefully Doom III, STALKER, and Half-Life 2 come out, socker 939 and 775 will be free of bugs and prices will have fallen on the old and even some new cards for sure)
B) get either 256 or 512 ram (at least PC3200) right now, and a 9800Pro. The only problem i have is that I think in 6 months even 6800 $299 will be about $220 so the Radeons will have to drop to about $120 or it will be unreasonable to get old technology. Of course then if you buy it now at $200 you'll lose some money as a result and speed. But I cant tell how slow the games run on your computer and just how badly you need this upgrade now......
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