What's different between libraries and Kazaa?

[FatJackSprat]

I am not in support of kazza, etc. but if the basic premise of the opposition is the lost sales revenue, how can libraries be justified.

I understand that libraries do not transfer ownership, but once you read a book you've used it to it's fullest potential and will not buy that book. (Aside from reference materials) So what is different about the lost sale from library lending and the lost sale from file sharing?

 

[her209]

Radio

 

[KnickNut3]

Interesting point. I guess if you consider those who ripped the MP3s as those who "donated" the song to the Kazaa "library." But by the same point, I believe it is legal to buy a CD and let others listen to it. But now that I think about it, knowing those bands and their copyright fights, it probably is illegal.

 

[her209]

Not to mention Clubs.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: FatJackSprat
I am not in support of kazza, etc. but if the basic premise of the opposition is the lost sales revenue, how can libraries be justified.

I understand that libraries do not transfer ownership, but once you read a book you've used it to it's fullest potential and will not buy that book. (Aside from reference materials) So what is different about the lost sale from library lending and the lost sale from file sharing?

Perhaps the recording industry will go after libraries next....

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: KnickNut3
But by the same point, I believe it is legal to buy a CD and let others listen to it. But now that I think about it, knowing those bands and their copyright fights, it probably is illegal.

I doubt actual bans are going to be pissed of and gun you down and make a copy for your friend. Now, if you share it with the rest of 1 Billion Internet Users they've got something to complain about.

 

[911paramedic]

You get in trouble if you keep the book.

 

[FoBoT]

most libraries these days loan dvds/cds , just not the newest releases
but if you get in tight with the librarian, you could probably make requests

 

[Entity]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
most libraries these days loan dvds/cds , just not the newest releases
but if you get in tight with the librarian, you could probably make requests

In Seattle most of the CDs/DVDs are pretty current. Watched the Pianist the night before last...that hasn't been out too long.

Rob

 

[Vic]

Libraries only let out one copy at a time. Kazaa can create an infinite number of copies.

 

[Schadenfroh]

get library book, scan it in, save to pdf using freePDF, then return or possibly acrobat that you downloaded thru kazaa

 

[Moonbeam]

There have been libraries for thousands of years whereas the music industry is new. Libraries wouldn't be allowed to get off the ground in todays capitalistic world. Libraries take of the wealth of those who have in taxes and distribute it to those who don't as information on the ridiculous theory that knowledge distributed is good in the long run, for everybody. Since this horrible idea is deeply ingrained by tradition, it is best fixed, in a round about way, by strangulation. Returning taxes to the rich, closes library doors and limits what they lend. We are repairing this sick world by returning to the idea that those who want to know should pay. Knowledge is dangerous and the rich, via vested interest, are safe. Only people with money properly care. The Internet, eventually will get the same fix. You will pay by what bandwidth you use. It is too dangerous to have the unaddicted to wealth wandering around. For example, you should never, ever, have read this.

 

[MaxDSP]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
There have been libraries for thousands of years whereas the music industry is new. Libraries wouldn't be allowed to get off the ground in todays capitalistic world. Libraries take of the wealth of those who have in taxes and distribute it to those who don't as information on the ridiculous theory that knowledge distributed is good in the long run, for everybody. Since this horrible idea is deeply ingrained by tradition, it is best fixed, in a round about way, by strangulation. Returning taxes to the rich, closes library doors and limits what they lend. We are repairing this sick world by returning to the idea that those who want to know should pay. Knowledge is dangerous and the rich, via vested interest, are safe. Only people with money properly care. The Internet, eventually will get the same fix. You will pay by what bandwidth you use. It is too dangerous to have the unaddicted to wealth wandering around. For example, you should never, ever, have read this.

 

[MaxDSP]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
get library book, scan it in, save to pdf using freePDF, then return or possibly acrobat that you downloaded thru kazaa

go grab a couple of 1,000 page books and e-mail em to me, wouldya?

 

[zsouthboy]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
There have been libraries for thousands of years whereas the music industry is new. Libraries wouldn't be allowed to get off the ground in todays capitalistic world. Libraries take of the wealth of those who have in taxes and distribute it to those who don't as information on the ridiculous theory that knowledge distributed is good in the long run, for everybody. Since this horrible idea is deeply ingrained by tradition, it is best fixed, in a round about way, by strangulation. Returning taxes to the rich, closes library doors and limits what they lend. We are repairing this sick world by returning to the idea that those who want to know should pay. Knowledge is dangerous and the rich, via vested interest, are safe. Only people with money properly care. The Internet, eventually will get the same fix. You will pay by what bandwidth you use. It is too dangerous to have the unaddicted to wealth wandering around. For example, you should never, ever, have read this.

Moonbeam owns!

Seriously. How true that is...

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by: FatJackSprat
I am not in support of kazza, etc. but if the basic premise of the opposition is the lost sales revenue, how can libraries be justified.

I understand that libraries do not transfer ownership, but once you read a book you've used it to it's fullest potential and will not buy that book. (Aside from reference materials) So what is different about the lost sale from library lending and the lost sale from file sharing?

I disagree that after a first read a book is "used up" and will not be purchased. I'm sure many people have purchased books they've already read and/or read a book more than once.

Also, Libraries buy thier materials so the people who produced those works still get paid and, unlike Kazaa, the library does not supply an unlimited number of copies that can be "borrowed" by an unlimited number of users who can retain their copy for an unlimited amount of time.


Lethal

 

[FrustratedUser]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
There have been libraries for thousands of years whereas the music industry is new. Libraries wouldn't be allowed to get off the ground in todays capitalistic world. Libraries take of the wealth of those who have in taxes and distribute it to those who don't as information on the ridiculous theory that knowledge distributed is good in the long run, for everybody. Since this horrible idea is deeply ingrained by tradition, it is best fixed, in a round about way, by strangulation. Returning taxes to the rich, closes library doors and limits what they lend. We are repairing this sick world by returning to the idea that those who want to know should pay. Knowledge is dangerous and the rich, via vested interest, are safe. Only people with money properly care. The Internet, eventually will get the same fix. You will pay by what bandwidth you use. It is too dangerous to have the unaddicted to wealth wandering around. For example, you should never, ever, have read this.

Translation:
Libraries are going the same way as Kazaa but it is more subtile. Knowledge is dangerous and threatens the establishment. Charing free knowledge threatens the establishment and will be shut down.

 

[d33pt]

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
There have been libraries for thousands of years whereas the music industry is new. Libraries wouldn't be allowed to get off the ground in todays capitalistic world. Libraries take of the wealth of those who have in taxes and distribute it to those who don't as information on the ridiculous theory that knowledge distributed is good in the long run, for everybody. Since this horrible idea is deeply ingrained by tradition, it is best fixed, in a round about way, by strangulation. Returning taxes to the rich, closes library doors and limits what they lend. We are repairing this sick world by returning to the idea that those who want to know should pay. Knowledge is dangerous and the rich, via vested interest, are safe. Only people with money properly care. The Internet, eventually will get the same fix. You will pay by what bandwidth you use. It is too dangerous to have the unaddicted to wealth wandering around. For example, you should never, ever, have read this.

Translation:
Libraries are going the same way as Kazaa but it is more subtile. Knowledge is dangerous and threatens the establishment. Charing free knowledge threatens the establishment and will be shut down.

you are unworthy of translating moonbeam's posts... please make more sense next time

 

[Vic]

Actually, Moonbeam is full of sh!t again.

Kazaa and the public library are not even remotely similar.
Kazaa is anonymous and involves making unlimited digital copies of copyrighted works.
Libraries require an ID and a library card, and you are only allowed to borrow a single copy for a limited period of time. If the borrower decides to copy that work during that time, it is the borrower who has broken the law not the library.
And as it could be easily argued that the purpose of a library is not to break copyright laws while the purpose of Kazaa is....

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
There have been libraries for thousands of years whereas the music industry is new. Libraries wouldn't be allowed to get off the ground in todays capitalistic world. Libraries take of the wealth of those who have in taxes and distribute it to those who don't as information on the ridiculous theory that knowledge distributed is good in the long run, for everybody. Since this horrible idea is deeply ingrained by tradition, it is best fixed, in a round about way, by strangulation. Returning taxes to the rich, closes library doors and limits what they lend. We are repairing this sick world by returning to the idea that those who want to know should pay. Knowledge is dangerous and the rich, via vested interest, are safe. Only people with money properly care. The Internet, eventually will get the same fix. You will pay by what bandwidth you use. It is too dangerous to have the unaddicted to wealth wandering around. For example, you should never, ever, have read this.

Libraries are a liberal conspiracy to push socialism on the god fearing US public!

 

[FrustratedUser]

Originally posted by: d33pt

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
There have been libraries for thousands of years whereas the music industry is new. Libraries wouldn't be allowed to get off the ground in todays capitalistic world. Libraries take of the wealth of those who have in taxes and distribute it to those who don't as information on the ridiculous theory that knowledge distributed is good in the long run, for everybody. Since this horrible idea is deeply ingrained by tradition, it is best fixed, in a round about way, by strangulation. Returning taxes to the rich, closes library doors and limits what they lend. We are repairing this sick world by returning to the idea that those who want to know should pay. Knowledge is dangerous and the rich, via vested interest, are safe. Only people with money properly care. The Internet, eventually will get the same fix. You will pay by what bandwidth you use. It is too dangerous to have the unaddicted to wealth wandering around. For example, you should never, ever, have read this.

Translation:
Libraries are going the same way as Kazaa but it is more subtile. Knowledge is dangerous and threatens the establishment. Charing free knowledge threatens the establishment and will be shut down.

you are unworthy of translating moonbeam's posts... please make more sense next time

Oh, really.

 

[FatJackSprat]

Originally posted by: LethalWolfe

I disagree that after a first read a book is "used up" and will not be purchased. I'm sure many people have purchased books they've already read and/or read a book more than once.

Also, Libraries buy thier materials so the people who produced those works still get paid and, unlike Kazaa, the library does not supply an unlimited number of copies that can be "borrowed" by an unlimited number of users who can retain their copy for an unlimited amount of time.


Lethal

My wife reads two to three books every two weeks and gets about 95% of those books from local libraries. She never buys a book if she has already read it and would guess that that's pretty average. That's a lot of lost sales. I don't read for pleasure much anymore, but I've never been motivated to buy a book that I liked after I had already finished reading it.

There also doesn't seem to be much a difference between someone buying a book for a library or buying a cd and putting it on kazaa. Either way, one copy is sold and shared and the creator only gets paid for the one copy that is purchased.

That is a good point about the exponential growth of the number of copies available from just one purchase though. I also agree with Moonbeam's point about the idea of libraries being so ingrained in tradition that there would be too much outcry if there was an organized movement against them.

It would also be impossible for many of those who are outspoken against kazaa, etc. to speak out against libraries. Most of those people are bleeding heart celebrities that like to tell the rest of us that we should be spending all of our money to help the less fortunate.

 

[Paul Ma]

A library provides a postive externality. Society is better off when there are more people who read books, so think of a library as an educational subsidy whereas societal benefits from listening to music are less impactful.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Paul Ma
A library provides a postive externality. Society is better off when there are more people who read books, so think of a library as an educational subsidy whereas societal benefits from listening to music are less impactful.

proof?

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Vic
Actually, Moonbeam is full of sh!t again.

Kazaa and the public library are not even remotely similar.
Kazaa is anonymous and involves making unlimited digital copies of copyrighted works.
Libraries require an ID and a library card, and you are only allowed to borrow a single copy for a limited period of time. If the borrower decides to copy that work during that time, it is the borrower who has broken the law not the library.
And as it could be easily argued that the purpose of a library is not to break copyright laws while the purpose of Kazaa is....

kazaa is clearly not anonymous, or else the RIAA/MPAA would not be able to file so many lawsuits against people.

the purpose of kazaa is not to break copyright laws. how many people download kazaa thinking "whoopee, i'm gonna break copyright laws"? none. they all go "whoopee, i can listen to music". just like people go to libraries and go "whoopee i can read books". the breakage of copyright laws is something that has occurred as a result of kazaa, but that does not mean it's kazaa's purpose.

furthermore, what is the difference between one or unlimited copies? fundamentally, people are still reaping the benefits of the product for free, the only difference is the speed at which this can be done. which begs the question, what is the threshold at which the speed is great enough to be illegal?