what's difference btw Mobile P4 and Desktop P4?

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mercdrive

Senior member
Jan 27, 2004
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I'm wondering the same thing i know they run cooler and hear they overclock well but are expensive.

I may have a celeron m 1.8 fs wonder if it is worth anything?
 
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stevty2889

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2003
7,036
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Mobile P4's and Desktop P4's are basicly the same. Mobile P4's have the advanatage of being able to run on a lower voltage,so they also run cooler. Thats the reason a mobile P4 will overclock better when used on a desktop board. The Pentium-M is a differant chip all together. It was designed specificly for notebooks. It is does more work per clock than a P4, similar to how an athlon 64 at a much lower clock speed can perform better than a higher clocked P4. A 1.6ghz Pentium-M is comparable to a 3ghz Pentium 4 in most applications. Pentium-M's also consume a lot less power and run much cooler, giving improved battery life as well, all this while using an older chipset and slower memory. There have been some reviews, using the pentium-m with the few desktop boards made to support it, and when overclocked to 2.1 or 2.3ghz, it really flies, even beating an athlon FX 55 in some things. They also just released the new chipset for the pentium-m that gives it PCIe and DDR2, and a 533mhz FSB, instead of a 400mhz FSB. Now if they would make a desktop board with that chipset...
 
LTC8K6

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
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Very unfair to Dothan, Zebo. Very unfair of you, linking to the erroneous graph and not the article.
Not what I'd expect from a lifer.....

On the other hand, the additional cache might have been the same reason why GCC performed so poorly - although we hope that the Linux compile test was just a fluke (Update: Please see the note on the Compiling page. We believe we had an isolated fluke with the PATA driver that limited our performance). Other benchmarks put Dothan right in the upper middle of the pack, usually beating out the Pentium 4 offerings, but occasionally beating out the best that our Athlon 64s could produce as well.
Click to expand...
 
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clarkey01

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2004
3,419
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Originally posted by: Zebo
Dothan has to be the most over-rated chip I've ever seen. Have you seen stuff like this?
http://images.anandtech.com/gr...m_12220491256/5839.png

This is just a prelude to its huge deficiencies. There a reason it's not on the desktop...

Granted it's cooler than ice, has great gaming potential..but well rounded it's not.
Click to expand...

"Trys to hide zebo from the abuse he's about get off the Intel boys"


No I have to agree, In short where its strong it does very well, but where its weak, its quite poor (floating point etc)
 
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clarkey01

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2004
3,419
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Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Very unfair to Dothan, Zebo. Very unfair of you, linking to the erroneous graph and not the article.
Not what I'd expect from a lifer.....

On the other hand, the additional cache might have been the same reason why GCC performed so poorly - although we hope that the Linux compile test was just a fluke (Update: Please see the note on the Compiling page. We believe we had an isolated fluke with the PATA driver that limited our performance). Other benchmarks put Dothan right in the upper middle of the pack, usually beating out the Pentium 4 offerings, but occasionally beating out the best that our Athlon 64s could produce as well.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I think Zebo (not kissing his ass) has contributed enormously with his advice and threads in the past, specially with memory sticky thread at the top on this section. He Is entitled to his opinions and what he says is not gospel.

Buts its true IMO, I believe it to be in the desktop world, not a wonder a chip. Yes for mobile use its incredible, I hand it to the bannis team for getting the ball rolling. But it needs to be heavily tweaked in order to compete with athlon 64?s (in terms of all round performance) or either the clock speed taking up more then the small speeds bumps we?re seeing now 100+ mhz etc. That?s because it cant ramp up fast due to its design, the floating point isn?t anything to shout about either, and the cost of the chip and motherboards pretty daft.

These forums, threads are all about opinions, If one person or two in this case have said otherwise to your thoughts/feelings that doesn?t mean they?ve done something wrong.

If Dothan performed all around and could say hit 2.6Ghz & was affordable I woul;d say great. But it isn?t.
 
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RobsTV

Platinum Member
Feb 11, 2000
2,520
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Originally posted by: Zebo
Dothan has to be the most over-rated chip I've ever seen. Have you seen stuff like this?
(snip)
Granted it's cooler than ice, has great gaming potential..but well rounded it's not.
Click to expand...

Great gaming "potential" has to be the biggest understatement I've ever seen.
It's a fact now that the Dothan is indeed "the" gaming CPU, and stock is faster than comparably clocked A64's. 2.0 GHz P-M =(+/-) A64 3500+ (true speed 2.2GHz) and P4 3400's in gaming.
Overclocking the beasts, as well as mating them with better chipsets is already blowing the socks off everything out there.

http://www.madshrimps.be/?acti...tpage=1157&articID=289
(note the speeds with no cooling fan!)
http://www.gamepc.com/labs/vie...=dothandesktop&page=11

Price kills it though for desktops.
But for laptops, it is no more expensive than the A64's or P4's that it beats.

At least we can agree how cold it runs.
My P-M laptop fan was blowing too cold on my leg, so I shut off the fans.
30 minutes of use later, and it still hasn't hit 50c.
Try that with a P4 or A64 wind tunnel.

 
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RobsTV

Platinum Member
Feb 11, 2000
2,520
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Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Very unfair to Dothan, Zebo. Very unfair of you, linking to the erroneous graph and not the article.
Not what I'd expect from a lifer.....
Click to expand...

Nothing unfair about it. No one leaves out the facts, and just posts an image, unless they purposefully intend on misleading you, especially someone with experience. Or perhaps this was his way for us to find the thruth about how great the Dothan is ourselves, because of course he knew we would find the true story about the image? Very clever...

At least the second link posted cuts to the chase, and explains that it looks like Pentium M is where Intel is headed for the desktop as well.
 
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clarkey01

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2004
3,419
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Clock for clock a K8 is faster in most things. Thats not to say its a bad chip, far from it.
 
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RobsTV

Platinum Member
Feb 11, 2000
2,520
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Originally posted by: clarkey01
Clock for clock a K8 is faster in most things. Thats not to say its a bad chip, far from it.
Click to expand...

"Most things" is a relevent term.
For most, a PC is simply used to check email or browse the net.
Most would not be able to tell the difference between an 800MHz machine and a 3.4 GHz machine.
For others it is gaming, where it's all about performance.
Then there are pros that use it to crunch numbers.
Some combine all of the above.

If you want to crunch numbers, get an A64. Gaming will be fine too.
But if number crunching and Linux are about as important to you as a 2400 baud modem, and will not help your Half-Life 2 scores, yet you want a portable quiet gaming rig for lan parties, or your living room as a quiet Home Theatre Gaming PC, then get the best for your most relevent thing.
 
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clarkey01

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2004
3,419
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Ah ok then. Encoding will be the Pentium M's, business apps, gaming will be Athlon. 3D mark.....I forget.

Tell you what, for the hell of it, and for LTC8K6 sake I'll say its the best chip in the world. lol. Im not going to lose sleep over it, but I think How he tried to imply that Zebo was trying to make Dothan look bad was wrong.

End of the day, Im happy with my future choice athlon 64. And with current prices its a far better price : Performance ratio then buying a top end pentium M and desktop motherboard.
 
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clarkey01

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2004
3,419
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Think Im still right in saying K8 is clock for clock faster ( Zebo stated this before in other threads) If im wrong then Im sorry.
 
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AWhackWhiteBoy

Golden Member
Mar 3, 2004
1,807
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Originally posted by: clarkey01
Clock for clock a K8 is faster in most things. Thats not to say its a bad chip, far from it.
Click to expand...

It definitely is, but the toss up is battery life. And its not a blatantly noticable difference most of the time either, just a neat casual jump.

I'd like to see full blown 90nm AMD64 mobile optimized CPUs put against the Dothan though. Does AMD even have any yet? Aren't they due out very soon?
 
LTC8K6

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
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I'll just give Zebo back the benefit of the doubt and assume he was unaware of the update.

I think he had to be unaware of it, to leave himself open like that.
 
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AWhackWhiteBoy

Golden Member
Mar 3, 2004
1,807
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there is NOTHING wrong with Zebos post, the Banias/Dothan floating point unit is largely the same as the Pentium 3's from which the entire core was derived. so in this respect the Dothan is still very much inferior if a program leans on that aspect heavily. what your seeing is how a P3 would fair again an AMD64 in that benchmark.
 
Zebo

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: RobsTV
Originally posted by: Zebo
Dothan has to be the most over-rated chip I've ever seen. Have you seen stuff like this?
(snip)
Granted it's cooler than ice, has great gaming potential..but well rounded it's not.
Click to expand...

Great gaming "potential" has to be the biggest understatement I've ever seen.
It's a fact now that the Dothan is indeed "the" gaming CPU, and stock is faster than comparably clocked A64's. 2.0 GHz P-M =(+/-) A64 3500+ (true speed 2.2GHz) and P4 3400's in gaming.
Overclocking the beasts, as well as mating them with better chipsets is already blowing the socks off everything out there.

http://www.madshrimps.be/?acti...tpage=1157&articID=289
(note the speeds with no cooling fan!)
http://www.gamepc.com/labs/vie...=dothandesktop&page=11

Price kills it though for desktops.
But for laptops, it is no more expensive than the A64's or P4's that it beats.

At least we can agree how cold it runs.
My P-M laptop fan was blowing too cold on my leg, so I shut off the fans.
30 minutes of use later, and it still hasn't hit 50c.
Try that with a P4 or A64 wind tunnel.
Click to expand...



GamePC is commercial site pimping PC's I can't believe anyone takes their reviews serious, not to mention they compare apples to oranges. varing speeds processors, OC to no OC. Let look at this one which at east compares same speed processors 2.4 to 2.4
It has "potential" since a OC-M 2.4 is close to a A64 2.4 in games.
http://www.hothardware.com/pri...icle.cfm?articleid=620

What you get in M is close performance is some apps, and horrible performance in others as I shown at AT link y'all seem to have a problem with..

hmm Lemme think, a chip which stays on top all the time (A64) or some of the time (M)... tough choice.:)

And 90nm A64 is just as cool as M. Check out this Xbit Article.
:) ...thats like a dothan almost 12w idle and 39W load. So what we got here, from a performance view, the A64 has better features and is faster most of the time, from a heat and power perspective, almost no difference between the two. I've run my winch w/o a fan too, and copper flower did the job..that's nothing new. I did it with my mobile-XP too.

Again I don't see the big brew haha about dothan when A64 does it better, been doing it longer, and I can run 64-bit windows OS coming in next month wich my prelim benches show signifigant performance gains accross board. Ex sandra CPU 11500 in XP vs. 13300 in 64..
 
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clarkey01

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2004
3,419
1
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Zebo forgot to mention the athlon overclocks alot better too.

Well, I think that settles that.
 
Zebo

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: RobsTV
Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Very unfair to Dothan, Zebo. Very unfair of you, linking to the erroneous graph and not the article.
Not what I'd expect from a lifer.....
Click to expand...

Nothing unfair about it. No one leaves out the facts, and just posts an image, unless they purposefully intend on misleading you, especially someone with experience. Or perhaps this was his way for us to find the thruth about how great the Dothan is ourselves, because of course he knew we would find the true story about the image? Very clever...

At least the second link posted cuts to the chase, and explains that it looks like Pentium M is where Intel is headed for the desktop as well.
Click to expand...

I did'nt leave out any facts. I said it was good in games and sucked ass when you throw math it's way and used tha image to show it. Has 1/4 the P4 or A64 performance. Wait till a real site like techreport does a review.. and thorw some CAD, mathmatica, rendering, compiling, or winrar it's way... you'll see similar dismal results.
 
Zebo

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: clarkey01
Zebo forgot to mention the athlon overclocks alot better too.

Well, I think that settles that.
Click to expand...

It's not ready for prime time. Only a blind fanboy could'nt see it.

I've made numerous posts saying how cool and cool dothan is. And it should get much better when these 915 boards come in.

AOpen 915
http://pcweb.mycom.co.jp/news/2005/01/19/008bl.jpg
http://pcweb.mycom.co.jp/news/2005/01/19/008al.jpg

This will prolly be my next HTPC.. check out the back panel!!!
 
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clarkey01

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2004
3,419
1
0
well, with SS in about 6 months you'll have Athlons hitting 3 Ghz alot easier then maybe one or two hitting them now.

I love both chips so I dont see a problem, just that Athlon is more well rounded.
 
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