What's Bill up to?

[jonks]

After the massive loss in South Carolina, Bill Clinton was asked a question unrelated to South Carolina, essentially, what does it say about Obama that it takes both Clintons to beat him? Bill's non sequitur response "Jesse Jackson also won South Carolina."

Now there have been allegations and accusations leveled at the Clinton's for playing the race card for the past couple weeks. As such it should be fairly prominent in any Clinton spokesperson's mind.

Bill Clinton is acknowledged by almost everyone as a master politician. So how could he make a statement that he had to have known would fan the accusations even more?

Possibilities:

1. He's throwing the election. He doesn't like Hillary any more than Pabst and doesn't want her to win, so is doing subtle things to piss off everyone and cost her votes.

- unlikely, as he is tarnishing his own legacy and reputation in the process

2. It's part of a larger plan. The Clintons have looked down the road and somehow see this as a successful strategy.

- is dividing the races ultimately to the Clintons' benefit or will it just drive everyone away from Hillary?

3. It was a mistake, even the master can slip up and say something dumb, he isn't perfect (see "I didn't inhale")

- I can't see him making this statement accidentally.

In related news, Jackson has come out and said he did not take any offense at Bill's reference. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes...by-clinton-remarks/?hp

 

[Pabster]

I'm starting to wonder if Bill knows it's over, and is trying to make an exit strategy for Hillary.

 

[techs]

Bill Clinton is one of the shrewdest politicians of our times.
Doubt him at your peril.
He has Hillary poised to virtually sweep Super Tuesday.

 

[nageov3t]

I don't buy into the whole "omg they pulled the race card" thing, and if this carries into the general election -- the Obama camp crying racists any time someone criticizes them -- I think there will be a backlash against them. I'm sick of it already myself, and I love political in-fighting. if he's crying foul over the Clintons, what's he going to do when the Republican 527 attack machines focus their attention on him? no matter who the repub nom is, there's not much they can do to reign in the independent attack dogs who's rather see a rino in charge than a democrat.

I think that Hillary tried a strategy of going after Obama rough, as if, you know... they were competing or something. it didn't work; I think they'll reformulate a new strategy for the super tuesday campaign.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: loki8481
I don't buy into the whole "omg they pulled the race card" thing, and if this carries into the general election -- the Obama camp crying racists any time someone criticizes them -- I think there will be a backlash against them. I'm sick of it already myself, and I love political in-fighting. if he's crying foul over the Clintons, what's he going to do when the Republican 527 attack machines focus their attention on him? no matter who the repub nom is, there's not much they can do to reign in the independent attack dogs who's rather see a rino in charge than a democrat.

I think that Hillary tried a strategy of going after Obama rough, as if, you know... they were competing or something. it didn't work; I think they'll reformulate a new strategy for the super tuesday campaign.

So this sounds like my #2 hypothesis, the master plan, i.e. making subtle comments that will cause cries of racism, which will lead to a backlash among white voters.

For the retooled campaign, I think Hillary really has to hammer home the experience question. I think this is a sticking point for many people and once she lost Iowa she has almost dropped the entire experience argument as loser. Merely stating "I have more experience" isn't good enough. She has to say WHY experience matters. "Would you hire someone fresh out of business school to run a fortune 500 company? Of course not. Then how can we put someone in the ultimate CEO spot?" Something like that.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: techs
Bill Clinton is one of the shrewdest politicians of our times.
Doubt him at your peril.
He has Hillary poised to virtually sweep Super Tuesday.

Im going to save this thread, so when Feb fifth comes I can laugh at your ass some more over your stupid comments.

Hillary isnt in position to sweep Super Tuesday. Obama is strong in more than half the states, and states where hes weak at hell still picke up a good precentage of the delegates because of proportional representation.

Ill come out and say it, after Super Tuesday Obama will STILL lead Clinton in terms of elected delegates. Clinton will still lead over all because of Super Delegates, but when it comes to primaries and caucuses Obama will still have more delegates than Billary.

 

[M0RPH]

4. He was just telling the truth, stating a fact.

 

[FoBoT]

screw it, on Feb 5 i am going to ask for the Democrat ballot and vote for Obama, screw you Bill!!

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: loki8481
I don't buy into the whole "omg they pulled the race card" thing, and if this carries into the general election -- the Obama camp crying racists any time someone criticizes them -- I think there will be a backlash against them. I'm sick of it already myself, and I love political in-fighting. if he's crying foul over the Clintons, what's he going to do when the Republican 527 attack machines focus their attention on him? no matter who the repub nom is, there's not much they can do to reign in the independent attack dogs who's rather see a rino in charge than a democrat.

I think that Hillary tried a strategy of going after Obama rough, as if, you know... they were competing or something. it didn't work; I think they'll reformulate a new strategy for the super tuesday campaign.

So this sounds like my #2 hypothesis, the master plan, i.e. making subtle comments that will cause cries of racism, which will lead to a backlash among white voters.

For the retooled campaign, I think Hillary really has to hammer home the experience question. I think this is a sticking point for many people and once she lost Iowa she has almost dropped the entire experience argument as loser. Merely stating "I have more experience" isn't good enough. She has to say WHY experience matters. "Would you hire someone fresh out of business school to run a fortune 500 company? Of course not. Then how can we put someone in the ultimate CEO spot?" Something like that.

Because truthfully, her record of experiance isnt much more than Obama's.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: techs
Bill Clinton is one of the shrewdest politicians of our times.
Doubt him at your peril.
He has Hillary poised to virtually sweep Super Tuesday.

Hah, can we please quote this on Feb 6?

Even the best screw up sometimes. This was a screwup. There is no grandplan. He screwed up, it will cost votes, period.

I think Hillary really has to hammer home the experience question

but then obama flips it as NOT having experience meaning he has not been tarnished by years of political rubbish.

 

[Skitzer]

I think we are about to see an Obama tidal wave. My opinion is that he will crush Hillary next week. Hell, look at what has happened just today!

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Skitzer
I think we are about to see an Obama tidal wave. My opinion is that he will crush Hillary next week. Hell, look at what has happened just today!

The public is so fickle. Up one week, bottom the next, but his momentum right now is precisely where it needs to be to peak when it matters! I guarantee Hillary is stressing this more than she was two weeks ago.

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: Skitzer
I think we are about to see an Obama tidal wave. My opinion is that he will crush Hillary next week. Hell, look at what has happened just today!

LOL. If you think South Carolina is any reflection of the rest of the country, you are sadly mistaken.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: M0RPH
LOL. If you think South Carolina is any reflection of the rest of the country, you are sadly mistaken.

I hope that Hillary bumper sticker is a static cling type. Easy removal :laugh:

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: sirjonk
In related news, Jackson has come out and said he did not take any offense at Bill's reference. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes...by-clinton-remarks/?hp

Which means Jesse Jackson is either turning into a wimp or is in cahoots with Bill.
That dude gets offended by damn near anything, usually its stuff that does not involve him or racism in any way, shape or form.
I honestly cant see him letting a comment (made about him personally) slide without some sort of outburst.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: M0RPH
4. He was just telling the truth, stating a fact.

Great, we've a racial bigot on board.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Great, we've a racial bigot on board.

There's a few of 'em around here.

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: M0RPH
4. He was just telling the truth, stating a fact.

Great, we've a racial bigot on board.

Bill Clinton said: "Jesse Jackson also won South Carolina".
M0RPH said: "He was just telling the truth, stating a fact."
And you called him a racist, why?

Please explain it to me, please tell me why M0RPH is a racist. And dont just say "its so obvious, you should see it plain", because I really dont. I dont understand and I need it explained to me, preferably in simple terms.

That sounds like a conclusion Jesse should have reached himself.
"OMG everyones a racist, except me and Martin Luther King Jr, and Jesus, and I'm not too sure about Jesus!!!!!"

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: shortylickens

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: M0RPH
4. He was just telling the truth, stating a fact.

Great, we've a racial bigot on board.

Bill Clinton said: "Jesse Jackson also won South Carolina".
M0RPH said: "He was just telling the truth, stating a fact."
And you called him a racist, why?

way to play the race card, you racist :|

 

[SSSnail]

Obama... hmmm, let's see.

Preaching, great public speaker. Took at page out of MLK and Kenedy speeches, I half expected "Hallelujah" at the end of every sentence.

Change, change, change, change, change, change.... This is not about race, this is not about black or white, not at all. Americans are not about race Americans are not about black or whites, it's about all the races coming together and change... :roll:

Seriously, give it a rest already.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: techs
Bill Clinton is one of the shrewdest politicians of our times.
Doubt him at your peril.
He has Hillary poised to virtually sweep Super Tuesday.

Im going to save this thread, so when Feb fifth comes I can laugh at your ass some more over your stupid comments.

Hillary isnt in position to sweep Super Tuesday. Obama is strong in more than half the states, and states where hes weak at hell still picke up a good precentage of the delegates because of proportional representation.

Ill come out and say it, after Super Tuesday Obama will STILL lead Clinton in terms of elected delegates. Clinton will still lead over all because of Super Delegates, but when it comes to primaries and caucuses Obama will still have more delegates than Billary.

I'm going to mark it too.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

I don't get the uproar. Jesse Jackson won South Carolina, did not win the candidacy for the Democratic party. It's a historical example. Who gives a flying fuck what race he is? I've read and reread Clinton's statement and nothing about it sounds like Bill is implying that Obama is just another uppity negro like that Jesse fellow. He's simply stating a historical fact about another politician. But just because the other politician happens to be black, it's a racial issue. Get over it, it clearly wasn't intended as racist, and you're just fanning the flames of retardation that are going to engulf this country and get everyone to refer to the next election as a race war.

And I really, really hope Obama wins. Hillary is unpredictable, but most of what I've seen is not good.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: techs
I'm going to mark it too.

Crow is a terrible thing to waste :laugh:

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
I don't get the uproar. Jesse Jackson won South Carolina, did not win the candidacy for the Democratic party. It's a historical example. Who gives a flying fuck what race he is? I've read and reread Clinton's statement and nothing about it sounds like Bill is implying that Obama is just another uppity negro like that Jesse fellow. He's simply stating a historical fact about another politician. But just because the other politician happens to be black, it's a racial issue. Get over it, it clearly wasn't intended as racist, and you're just fanning the flames of retardation that are going to engulf this country and get everyone to refer to the next election as a race war.

And I really, really hope Obama wins. Hillary is unpredictable, but most of what I've seen is not good.

I will try to objectively disagree. Why did Bill pick Jesse as the example? Edwards won in 2004 and didn't get the nomination and he's in this primary race! Clearly bill was pointing out the huge black electorate that played a role in Jackson's wins. The question is simply, is even making an observation that the black vote helped Obama or Jackson win, racist?

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: sirjonk
-snip-

Bill Clinton is acknowledged by almost everyone as a master politician. So how could he make a statement that he had to have known would fan the accusations even more?

Possibilities:

1.
2.
3.

- I can't see him making this statement accidentally.

In sports they often say "when we win, we're not a good as they say. When we lose, we're as bad they say".

Bill's given a lot of credit for his political skills. I think much of that is natural or instinctive. As far as strategy, he had a lot of help from Dick Morris.

I question whether his instincts, that worked so well in the 90's, are appropriate for today. E.g., HRC started out with the whole experience thingy, demonstrating how they completely missed the boat about the public's feelings and a desire for change etc. Hehe, HRC then became another "change candidate".

HRC started out her campiagn by bashing GWB, even though many said "WTH? he aint even running". They never saw Obama coming, they missed that trend altogether.

Bill, living the life of a former President, has been cocooned in a bubble of admiration and respect and insulated from every day political life (fighting) for quite some time. IMO, it's hard to jump into the game as QB when you've been on the sidelines for about 8 yrs.

I think he did it on purpose. I also think his instincts may not be as good as before. I also suspect that he's trying to be HRC's "Dick Morris" and am not sure if he's ever been suitable for that role. Charm & charisma may be his strong point, not political strategy/tactics.

Fern