What's behind the rhetoric in the shutdown?

[Muse]

LMAO hardly, these are the groups that lobbied the Democrats to get the ACA in the first place. Why would insurance companies not want a law that MANDATES every individual purchase insurance from them?

They would be against it if they made less money under the new law. Now they can charge what the market will bear. Under the ACA it may not work out that way, especially if the government exchange undercuts them.

 

[Muse]

All the delusions of the usual lefties aside (I appreciate the comedic value of posts like thraashman's), the bottom line is that this is one chance to delay the unleashing of this disaster on the American people. One of the reasons I voted for my reps is because I want them to do whatever they can to put a stop to the mess. That's exactly what they're doing. Once the trillions start flowing on a government program, you can never get rid of it or fix it in the future, that's just how DC works.

I hope you are better at poker than politics.

 

[PokerGuy]

They would be against it if they made less money under the new law. Now they can charge what the market will bear. Under the ACA it may not work out that way, especially if the government exchange undercuts them.

You are a funny guy. Once they made sure the things that were important to them were included in obamacare, they became big fans and supporters. Take a look at the stock prices in those industries... they took major jumps with the passage of obamacare, the investors know they stand to gain a ton. Don't buy into all the populist drivel, follow the money.

 

[PokerGuy]

I hope you are better at poker than politics.

I have a very good understanding of both

 

[Fern]

So, ... what's behind the rhetoric? What's really driving the Tea Party's position here? I have heard nothing substantive. I hear snippets such as "the American people are against this" or "this is terrible for America" or "the American people's opinion has not been taken into consideration" or "the Democrats refuse to even negotiate." That's all I've seen in the media. What's really driving this? I have to think (please please correct me if I'm wrong) that the Tea Party (who are presumably driving the GOP stance here) are acting in the interests of donors, supporters, who are doing the bidding of (or actually are) the insurance companies, and possibly other parties (e.g. the pharmaceutical industry, the AMA, the hospitals, other wealthy parties who prefer a laissez fair approach in government for their own reasons) who believe that they stand to lose as the ACA kicks in. It appears to me that the people behind this prefer to remain in the shadows. What are your thoughts about this?

LMAO hardly, these are the groups that lobbied the Democrats to get the ACA in the first place. Why would insurance companies not want a law that MANDATES every individual purchase insurance from them?

Yep

Fern

 

[Fern]

They would be against it if they made less money under the new law. Now they can charge what the market will bear. Under the ACA it may not work out that way, especially if the government exchange undercuts them.

How could that possibly be? Isn't the govt exchange just another vehicle for HI companies to their policies?

I.e., how can they undercut themselves?

Fern

 

[werepossum]

How could that possibly be? Isn't the govt exchange just another vehicle for HI companies to their policies?

I.e., how can they undercut themselves?

Fern

But - but it's government! It HAS to undercut the evil insurance companies when it forces people to buy insurance from the, um . . . never mind.

 

[Muse]

You are a funny guy. Once they made sure the things that were important to them were included in obamacare, they became big fans and supporters. Take a look at the stock prices in those industries... they took major jumps with the passage of obamacare, the investors know they stand to gain a ton. Don't buy into all the populist drivel, follow the money.

OK, what's your theory? Who's money is behind the Tea Party?

 

[WTSherman]

The bottom line behind the tea party's stand is that the government should be expected to tighten it's belt at least to the level of "its" citizens. Why does the spending increase while wealth decreases?

Not to mention individual liberty. Conservatives are the guardians of freedom.

 

[Attic]

Lets have a quick look at the other Federal trainwrecks that have continued to suck us dry.

The U.S. Postal Service was established in 1775. The corrupt morons in government have had 238 years to get it right and it is broke.

Social Security was established in 1935. The corrupt morons in government have had 78 years to get it right and it is broke.

Fannie Mae was established in 1938. The corrupt morons in government have had 75 years to get it right and it is broke.

The War on Poverty started in 1964. The corrupt morons in government have had 49 years to get it right; $1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and transferred to "the poor" and they only want more.

Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965. The corrupt morons in government have had 48 years to get it right and they are broke.

Freddie Mac was established in 1970. The corrupt morons in government have had 43 years to get it right and it is broke.

The Department of Energy was created in 1977 to lessen our dependence on foreign oil. It has ballooned to 16,000 employees with a budget of $24 billion a year and we import more oil than ever before. The corrupt morons in government had 36 years to get it right and it is an abysmal failure.

These corrupt morons in government have FAILED in every "government service" they have shoved down our throats while overspending our tax dollars.

Depends on your measure of success. Though I agree that to me those are failures.

You will never understand bureaucracies until you understand that for bureaucrats procedure is everything and outcomes are nothing.

Thomas Sowell

It's an immediate truth, and quite revealing to those who believe in limited government.

 

[Zaap]

Lets have a quick look at the other Federal trainwrecks that have continued to suck us dry.

The U.S. Postal Service was established in 1775. The corrupt morons in government have had 238 years to get it right and it is broke.

Social Security was established in 1935. The corrupt morons in government have had 78 years to get it right and it is broke.

Fannie Mae was established in 1938. The corrupt morons in government have had 75 years to get it right and it is broke.

The War on Poverty started in 1964. The corrupt morons in government have had 49 years to get it right; $1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and transferred to "the poor" and they only want more.

Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965. The corrupt morons in government have had 48 years to get it right and they are broke.

Freddie Mac was established in 1970. The corrupt morons in government have had 43 years to get it right and it is broke.

The Department of Energy was created in 1977 to lessen our dependence on foreign oil. It has ballooned to 16,000 employees with a budget of $24 billion a year and we import more oil than ever before. The corrupt morons in government had 36 years to get it right and it is an abysmal failure.

These corrupt morons in government have FAILED in every "government service" they have shoved down our throats while overspending our tax dollars.

Well yeah, b-b-b-buuuutt thiiiiis time.............it'll be different. No really.

 

[rudder]

I'm pretty sure that the reason for the Tea Party rhetoric is that if more people have healthcare coverage, more lower income people don't die each year. And lower income people don't tend to vote Republican (exception, Mississippi, Alabama ... ok the entire south). So the Tea Party wants to ensure as many poor people die each year as possible to help create a more likely Republican run nation.

Funny but logic fail...

 

[rudder]

The whole meaning here is pretty clear, the republicans are terrified that the ACA is going to work. If it was really going to be the train wreck they claim, they would just let it fail, clean up in the next election, and then implement their own plan. The sheer amount of damage they are willing to inflict on the economy to stop its implementation shows that economic effects of the ACA aren't paramount to them.

So yeah, it is basically they think once people start getting health insurance through it it will become too popular to get rid of.

Well unfortunately the world does not work this way. Once you start an entitlement program... it becomes very hard to pull back even if it fails miserably. By the time the U.S. is so fed up with obamacare it will be too late... the U.S. won't even be able to afford the ink to print new $100 bills.

 

[OverVolt]

AFAIK the rhetoric is "neener neener you can't make me"

 

[Muse]

The bottom line behind the tea party's stand is that the government should be expected to tighten it's belt at least to the level of "its" citizens. Why does the spending increase while wealth decreases?

Not to mention individual liberty. Conservatives are the guardians of freedom.

You think so. I don't know what you're smoking. Ya know, "guardian of freedom" is an excellent example of an oxymoron. As they say, "an oxymoron a day keeps reality away."

 

[shira]

All the delusions of the usual lefties aside (I appreciate the comedic value of posts like thraashman's), the bottom line is that this is one chance to delay the unleashing of this disaster on the American people. One of the reasons I voted for my reps is because I want them to do whatever they can to put a stop to the mess. That's exactly what they're doing. Once the trillions start flowing on a government program, you can never get rid of it or fix it in the future, that's just how DC works.

Rather than use the same hyperbolic, vague adjectives we always hear from the right when it attacks the ACA, why don't you - for once - give us some detailed examples of precisely what you mean by "this disaster?" You know, some "before" and "after" examples of the "disaster." And back up your examples with the results of some credible studies.

 

[sportage]

What is behind the rhetoric ???
Medicare. Social security. Social programs.
God forbid one more add into the collection.
This fear causes tea party republicans to wake at night in terror.
Suffer night sweats.
Cause them to drown their kids and kick the cat.
God forbid ACA Obamacare should catch on and become popular.
Where as with the list above, republicans forced to embrace still another in the future.
Protect it.
Fear voter retaliation if they dare question it.
Speak wrong of it.
In that future.

This is their last line in the sand.
You can see that on their face.
Another concept the public will love, republicans hold their nose defending, and elected officials terrified of voter retaliation if messed with.
Yep. The rhetoric is all about the terror of yet another successful and beloved concept that Americans deserve and can have affordable healthcare.
And we're not even talking government controlled national healthcare, here.
We're simply talking private insurance exchanges pooled to attract the buyer.
Free market. Competition. Freedom of choice.

 

[IronWing]

Funny but logic fail...

Yeah, 'cause illegals line up to vote. Convincing citizens to vote is difficult yet conservatives have this fantasy that illegals risk discovery and deportation to vote in elections they know practically nothing about. Makes perfect sense.

Yeah, I know, I know, it's just code for "We know Republicans lose when turnout is high so let's make it more difficult for poor people and minorities to vote."

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

It's always about gain, and that's about power and not limited to the Tea Party.

 

[dank69]

OK, what's your theory? Who's money is behind the Tea Party?

Koch Brothers and other big industry. Government stands in the way of their efforts to turn us into China. So far, the only negative stigma that the Republicans have been able to attach to Obama and the Dems in the eyes of the general populace is the negative propaganda surrounding Obamacare. As Obamacare fully ramps up, it is going to be more and more difficult to keep peddling the blatant lies about it, and the benefits will be harder and harder to cover up.

 

[Veliko]

The Tea Party is chock full of people who are peculiarly bitter and sour, with most of them being religious and utterly illogical.

 

[Moonbeam]

The Tea Party is chock full of people who are peculiarly bitter and sour, with most of them being religious and utterly illogical.

It is full of nobodies who are only somebody because they have the only true religion that teaches the end times are coming because of non-believers and are creating the exact disaster they fear. They have an unconscious need to destroy so they can feel vindicated. They are driven by unconscious ego needs that demand they get something for making asses of themselves but don't know what it is. These poor folks are mean drunks in denial who have banded as a party so they can bottom out together. We are going through a nightmare but it will pass as they do. These are folk evolution passes by because they love the misery of their backward culture over hope and change. Hope can't ever be defeated and change can never be stopped. The broom of history comes inexorably and sweeps such folk away. We hear the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth as predicted.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

We hear the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth as predicted.

Sorta like your profanity laced tirades?


I also thought Angry Young Democrats/Progressive as being peculiarly bitter and sour, with most of them being liberal and utterly illogical

 

[Matt1970]

The whole meaning here is pretty clear, the republicans are terrified that the ACA is going to work. If it was really going to be the train wreck they claim, they would just let it fail, clean up in the next election, and then implement their own plan. The sheer amount of damage they are willing to inflict on the economy to stop its implementation shows that economic effects of the ACA aren't paramount to them.

So yeah, it is basically they think once people start getting health insurance through it it will become too popular to get rid of.

The left still doesn't get it. We aren't terrified that the ACA is going to work, we are terrified of the damage it could inflict on the economy after its implementation. There are a lot of people still struggleing with this economy so how in the hell is slapping them with a mandatory purchase in the hundreds of dollars or more every month going to help them? Oh don't worry, you will get a tax credit 16 months later.

 

[Veliko]

The left still doesn't get it. We aren't terrified that the ACA is going to work, we are terrified of the damage it could inflict on the economy after its implementation. There are a lot of people still struggleing with this economy so how in the hell is slapping them with a mandatory purchase in the hundreds of dollars or more every month going to help them? Oh don't worry, you will get a tax credit 16 months later.

The damage you speak of exists entirely in your head.

Of all the other nations that already have universal healthcare, did any of them ever experience such vehement opposition to it?