What's a good UHF/VHF HDTV Antenna < $40?

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PottedMeat

PottedMeat

Lifer
Apr 17, 2002
12,363
475
126
did you try some plain old rabbit ears from an old tv? I live 40+ miles from all the major stations in a flat area and still get nearly all of them. Hell try sticking in a piece of wire and seeing what you get.
 
B

bobdole369

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2004
4,504
2
0
While total overkill -

http://www.winegarddirect.com/viewi...idirectional-TV-Antenna-(MS2002)&p=WD-MS-2002

This beast is on top of our office. It works very well.

You will have much better luck the more outside you can get the antenna. Do not discount attic-mounts, hidden wire antennas (thin gauge wire hung outside the window during viewing hours), and even outside installations. You don't have to mount the thing right on top of the TV, in fact thats one of the worst places to put it. Instead put it on a windowsill.
 
Aves

Aves

Lifer
Feb 7, 2001
12,233
30
101
PottedMeat said:
did you try some plain old rabbit ears from an old tv? I live 40+ miles from all the major stations in a flat area and still get nearly all of them. Hell try sticking in a piece of wire and seeing what you get.
Click to expand...

Not a bad idea. I actually used the FM antenna from my receiver just to test and got all of the HD stations available in my area with excellent strength and they are 20 miles away.

It's just a long wire with a coax connector on the end.
 
P

Paperdoc

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2006
2,512
380
126
Don't get too enthusiastic about amplifiers. They have a good use, but many are sold and used incorrectly.

The key starting point is that the antenna itself must pick up a reasonable signal strength. As bobdole369 said, placing the antenna in a good location with a decent signal and little nearby source of interference is best. Once you have a decent signal being picked up, the function of the amplifier is to boost that signal so it will survive the cable trip from antenna to TV. Don't forget that the amp will also boost the noise in the original signal, so a poor original signal with low signal-to-noise content will still end up (after amplification) as a poor signal.

Thus, in my opinion, an antenna mounted on top of a TV with a cable run of 5 feet does NOT need an amplifier! If the signal your antenna picks up in that location is good enough, a short cable run like that is not costing you any signal strength. And if the signal there is poor, an amp will not clean it up.

BUT, placing an antenna on a roof, outside, in a window etc. to get a good signal, and then running a 30 or 50 foot cable to the TV MAY benefit from an amp so that the normal losses in a longer cable run are offset by supplying a stronger initial signal (from the amp) at the input end of the cable. NOTE that the key is that the amp must be right at the antenna end, and not at the TV end.

In your case, you seem to have some luck working for you. Your preliminary test with a known-poor FM antenna that is little more than a piece of wire says the signal strength available to you at the TV is quite good. In that case a somewhat simpler antenna placed on or near the TV with NO amplifier because the cable run is short may be all you need.

Look for an antenna that is good for all the channels you want to pick up. As a guide, they come in three different bands (or frequency ranges), and it takes some good design to pick up all of them well. The lowest-frequency band is the old VHFLO band for channels 2 through 6. Then the VHFHI band is channels 7 through 13. Channel 7 is quite a distance from Channel 6, but the FM Radio band is right below it. Above that is the old UHF band from Channels 14 through 69, and 14 is just above 13. So it is common to get a smallish antenna that can cover reasonably well all the channels from 7 through 69 (although may be a bit weak on each end). Getting Channels 2 through 6 is tougher on the the same antenna but it can be done with a good design. However, depending on which channels you have and want to pick up, that may not matter.
 
Svnla

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
1,388
126
Interesting thread.

So I have a USB TV for my laptop with a powered/amplified antena. It has every station except one (NBC). Do you guys think if I move the antena to the window (I live in 2nd floor apartment) and run an extension cable to the laptop and it will work?

What kind of the long cable called so I can get one from Monoprice. TIA.
 
S

smitbret

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2006
3,382
17
81
That Philips would be just fine. I have one and I can pick up some UHF signals from as far away as 40 miles. Keep in mind that all of these small, indoor/outdoor antennas are bad for VHF reception. They compensate by installing a pre-amp in the antenna body and just amp the hell out of the signal to compensate for the antenna's lack of mass. Luckily, about 90% of all stations are UHF so it may not be an issue for you. A link to your antennaweb results would be helpful or if you're really curious, www.tvfool.com does basically the same thing but seems to be a little more accurate and a little more advanced.
 
OutHouse

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A HDTV ANTENNA!!!!!

its the same signal rabbit ears can pick up.
 
M

mshan

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2004
7,868
0
71
At less than 7 miles away, I also might try rabbit ears first.

Zenith / Phillips Silver Sensor is supposed to be de facto standard for indoor antennas under say 20 miles, but I believe it can be directional.

Terk says a Silver Sensor clone ( http://www.amazon.com/Terk-Technolo...6?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1294856012&sr=1-6 ) that has rabbit ears and integrated cable and that might be a good choice.

My personal observation is that amplifier doesn't make much difference; quality of antenna itself and how good a tuner chip you have will make a lot more difference.
 
zinfamous

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,946
31,481
146
coat hanger.

seriously. any cheapo antennae will get you superior HD reception.

you can make your own for free.
 
T

The_Dude8

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2000
5,167
1
71
Paperdoc said:
Don't get too enthusiastic about amplifiers. They have a good use, but many are sold and used incorrectly.

The key starting point is that the antenna itself must pick up a reasonable signal strength. As bobdole369 said, placing the antenna in a good location with a decent signal and little nearby source of interference is best. Once you have a decent signal being picked up, the function of the amplifier is to boost that signal so it will survive the cable trip from antenna to TV. Don't forget that the amp will also boost the noise in the original signal, so a poor original signal with low signal-to-noise content will still end up (after amplification) as a poor signal.

Thus, in my opinion, an antenna mounted on top of a TV with a cable run of 5 feet does NOT need an amplifier! If the signal your antenna picks up in that location is good enough, a short cable run like that is not costing you any signal strength. And if the signal there is poor, an amp will not clean it up.

BUT, placing an antenna on a roof, outside, in a window etc. to get a good signal, and then running a 30 or 50 foot cable to the TV MAY benefit from an amp so that the normal losses in a longer cable run are offset by supplying a stronger initial signal (from the amp) at the input end of the cable. NOTE that the key is that the amp must be right at the antenna end, and not at the TV end.

In your case, you seem to have some luck working for you. Your preliminary test with a known-poor FM antenna that is little more than a piece of wire says the signal strength available to you at the TV is quite good. In that case a somewhat simpler antenna placed on or near the TV with NO amplifier because the cable run is short may be all you need.

Look for an antenna that is good for all the channels you want to pick up. As a guide, they come in three different bands (or frequency ranges), and it takes some good design to pick up all of them well. The lowest-frequency band is the old VHFLO band for channels 2 through 6. Then the VHFHI band is channels 7 through 13. Channel 7 is quite a distance from Channel 6, but the FM Radio band is right below it. Above that is the old UHF band from Channels 14 through 69, and 14 is just above 13. So it is common to get a smallish antenna that can cover reasonably well all the channels from 7 through 69 (although may be a bit weak on each end). Getting Channels 2 through 6 is tougher on the the same antenna but it can be done with a good design. However, depending on which channels you have and want to pick up, that may not matter.
Click to expand...

Your antenna knowledge is excellent, you must be an engineer. In term of antenna design, what antenna would you recommend getting?

I have a hard time picking up cbs and abc, both channels are VHF, using the philips silver sensor ant on the samsung, lg lcd, but both can't pick up cbs nor abc.

When i try the same antenna using a panosonic lcd tv, it was able to pick up abc and nbc.

Now i am trying to find a good antenna for the samsung lcd tv.
 
B

bobdole369

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2004
4,504
2
0
All good info here.

Svnla

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10216&cs_id=1021603&p_id=3034&seq=1&format=2

75ohm coax. F-Connectors on each end, coupler from radio shack.

For those of you who are interested in RF in general, there is a formula to find a given frequencies optimum antenna length.

Note the difference betwixt a "feedline" and the "antenna" (which is any wire not contained within the coax cable).

Take apart a bit of coax and notice there is a center conductor and a shield. If you connect an equal length of wire to both center conductor, and shield. You have just created a "dipole" antenna. It receives (and transmits) most efficiently broadside to its length. If you orient it so that one element is straight up and one straight down, it is a quasi-omnidirectional antenna, as it receives best along all 360 degrees.

Picture a giant donut with the antenna at the center. If the antenna is parallel to the ground it makes a figure 8. When oriented up and down, it makes a circle around you.

Formula is this:

468/f(mhz)=(length in feet)

For example:

Channel 2 (VHFlo) has a center freq around 57mhz.
468/57 = 8.2 feet total length, or 4.1 feet per leg.

Channel 10 (VHFhi) has a center freq of 195mhz.
468/195=2.4 feet total length, or 1.2 feet per leg.

Channel 32 (UHF) has a center freq of 581mhz.
468/581=0.81 feet total length, or 0.405 feet per leg.

As you can see it would be quite difficult to construct an array of antennas that are perfect for all these frequencies. Instead concentrate on building the antenna for the channels that are more difficult to reach - the closer, clearer stations are rather likely to just come in anyways despite being an inefficient antenna.
 
T

The_Dude8

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2000
5,167
1
71
bobdole369 said:
All good info here.

Svnla

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10216&cs_id=1021603&p_id=3034&seq=1&format=2

75ohm coax. F-Connectors on each end, coupler from radio shack.

For those of you who are interested in RF in general, there is a formula to find a given frequencies optimum antenna length.

Note the difference betwixt a "feedline" and the "antenna" (which is any wire not contained within the coax cable).

Take apart a bit of coax and notice there is a center conductor and a shield. If you connect an equal length of wire to both center conductor, and shield. You have just created a "dipole" antenna. It receives (and transmits) most efficiently broadside to its length. If you orient it so that one element is straight up and one straight down, it is a quasi-omnidirectional antenna, as it receives best along all 360 degrees.

Picture a giant donut with the antenna at the center. If the antenna is parallel to the ground it makes a figure 8. When oriented up and down, it makes a circle around you.

Formula is this:

468/f(mhz)=(length in feet)

For example:

Channel 2 (VHFlo) has a center freq around 57mhz.
468/57 = 8.2 feet total length, or 4.1 feet per leg.

Channel 10 (VHFhi) has a center freq of 195mhz.
468/195=2.4 feet total length, or 1.2 feet per leg.

Channel 32 (UHF) has a center freq of 581mhz.
468/581=0.81 feet total length, or 0.405 feet per leg.

As you can see it would be quite difficult to construct an array of antennas that are perfect for all these frequencies. Instead concentrate on building the antenna for the channels that are more difficult to reach - the closer, clearer stations are rather likely to just come in anyways despite being an inefficient antenna.
Click to expand...

So what is the best bang for your bucks VHF antenna that I can buy? Since CBS and ABC are VHF, and those two channels are the hardest to catch for me.

Thanks
 
A

AznSensation

Senior member
Dec 26, 2004
340
0
76
since i live 6.7 miles from the towers, should i get one without the amplifier? if so, is there any good non-amplified antennas you guys recommend?
 
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