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Discussion What would you say to this person?

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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
7,155
1,718
136
If it's going to make him happy, who cares? If an AMD system is going to leave him unhappy, with a niggling doubt that he should have gone Intel, then the extra $150 is well spent. It's a toy and a hobby, its entire purpose is to make him happy.
This.

It's better to ignore the tech part if its going to result in straining your friendship. He might regret it later, but in the meantime you respected his decisions.
 

amrnuke

Senior member
Apr 24, 2019
862
1,074
96
Meh, for gaming and streaming, he's probably fine with an i3 and slap a decent GPU in there and 16GB of ram. He can get an i5 or i7 if budget allows, but, more or less anything decent should get the job done.

Next gen Ryzen will probably offer more bang for the buck, but, the choices these days are "good vs better" and not "right vs wrong"



edit:

This is typed on a i5 2400 running at stock speed with cheap old 8gb ddr :)
Are you actually suggesting a 4 thread CPU is sufficient for gaming AND streaming? Even a 6 core Intel CPU can't even deliver more than a frame every now and then while streaming many of the most basic games - at ANY stream quality.
 

VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
49,112
5,426
126
I just helped a friend of mine out with an AMD build, only 4C/4T though. (CPU was included free.)

I had actually offered him a trial period, with both an Intel i5-7400 rig w/GTX 1060 3GB, 8GB DDR4, and building an AMD R3 1200 rig, with 16GB DDR4, and an RX 570. He ended up going with the AMD rig, and he wants to do gaming and streaming.
 

CHADBOGA

Platinum Member
Mar 31, 2009
2,024
623
136
With the people I help buy a computer system, I tend to update them for months beforehand, so I have been telling such people since last year, that Intel has really lost the plot with their manufacturing process and explain how this is hurting Intel and holding them back.

I've also been updating them about all the security issues and the resulting performance losses that occur when Windows gets patched for this.

Additionally I have explained how with the Ryzen 3000 series, it looks like AMD will be the overwhelming choice this time round.

I regard the above as just groundwork, so I will have much less resistance when it comes time to spec a new system for a friend.
 

Adul

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
32,995
37
91
danny.tangtam.com
Stop pushing him AMD and say intel may drop the price of his CPU because of AMD and it would be wise to wait to save some money. It can be put into a better GPU. He isn't someone who is going to change their mind that easily.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,565
1,042
126
To be fair, all extreme hype aside, it really seems like Ryzen 3000 is mostly a parity moment, not an AMD64 or Conroe moment, albeit with 'moar cores'. Although personally it makes all the sense in the world to wait a bit and build from a 570/3700x or something similar, it probably will make virtually zero real world difference to this guy as a gamer and even streamer in the vast majority of gaming situations due to how much even a Titan RTX is a bottleneck at extremely high settings.

Where you really want to do your extra research is if you want to do heavy DC/compute, high refresh/medium-high settings, etc, as 5-10% here and there will be noticable, and then the moar cores will pay off.
 

Topweasel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2000
5,327
1,525
136
To be fair, all extreme hype aside, it really seems like Ryzen 3000 is mostly a parity moment, not an AMD64 or Conroe moment, albeit with 'moar cores'. Although personally it makes all the sense in the world to wait a bit and build from a 570/3700x or something similar, it probably will make virtually zero real world difference to this guy as a gamer and even streamer in the vast majority of gaming situations due to how much even a Titan RTX is a bottleneck at extremely high settings.

Where you really want to do your extra research is if you want to do heavy DC/compute, high refresh/medium-high settings, etc, as 5-10% here and there will be noticable, and then the moar cores will pay off.
No it's well above parity. Either its extremely close and costs 40% less or it's extremely close and has 50% more cores for the price. Yeah in outright game performance it's a parity, but the CPU if benches hold is a lot more value for the $ than Intel if their prices hold (which they only tend to move around teiring with new gens and no discounts on older ones.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,565
1,042
126
No argument there, but the OP specifically says 'gaming and streaming'.

Back in the day, going from a P4 to an Athlon 64 3800+ / X2 / etc was a complete game changer (heh). Ditto going from X2 to Core 2 Duo.

Going from a 9900k to a 3xxx is in all likelihood a 'eh' move for a gamer.

Better power efficiency, better value, more cores per $. But it doesn't seem to be pushing at the per core per thread on the high side of things in a momentous way.

OP's friend *should* wait and see reviews, and build a 3xxx. Otoh, it probably won't make much of a difference either way.
 
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plopke

Senior member
Jan 26, 2010
220
67
101
I have had this situation happen many times all the way back to the Athlon series and in the end , there is nothing you can do. People have a hard time to see value in PC components. For example , "why do I need a expensive power supply?"

I would just tell him , it is your money and get the 9900K

1)seams he does not want to wait anymore
2)ram/ssd /graphics cards prices are acceptable atm , so except inflated intel(production)/nvidia(no competition high end) price , it is not too bad of a time to buy new PC parts.
3)he wants intel and you tried
4)any early bios issues on 3000 series ,you will have to deal with
5)the 9900k is solid , except in value per $.
6)I would only gently point it out if the 3000 series is a lot better, it does not feel good making financial mistakes.

I really do not like it but it takes a lot of time and energy to convince people (including myself) of : "but i used this for the last 10 years".

UPDATE : try what @CHADBOGA said and then give up if it does not work :p
 

amrnuke

Senior member
Apr 24, 2019
862
1,074
96
moar cores
Did you mean "moar coars"?

Also, to OP, if you want to still help, at least help him find a solid PSU and cooling solution. Say, hey man, I think you'd get better value out of AMD, but Intel is still the fastest available right now, so let's make sure this bad boy runs as well as possible for as long as possible.
 

coffeemonster

Senior member
Apr 18, 2015
241
86
101
Are you actually suggesting a 4 thread CPU is sufficient for gaming AND streaming? Even a 6 core Intel CPU can't even deliver more than a frame every now and then while streaming many of the most basic games - at ANY stream quality.
while I agree a 4 thread CPU is not recommended for the task, I follow a pretty popular twitch streamer that streams from a single 6700K + 1080ti powered PC. He even plays many games at 4K.

I think a lot of streamers today are still on haswell / skylake i7's.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
102,655
17,041
136
Just build what he wants.

When he asks why his performance took a 15% hit or whatever after security updates, just ask him if he prefers fast, or if he prefers Spectre/Meltdown vulnerabilities.

When he asks why he can't have both, remind him that you already recommended that option.
 
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DisarmedDespot

Senior member
Jun 2, 2016
353
244
116
Some of these responses were surprising. If your friendship is too fragile to survive some light ribbing over impulsive CPU choice, there's something wrong.

I vote for helping him build, but giving a gentle ribbing if the price drops after the 3000 series launch.
 
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amrnuke

Senior member
Apr 24, 2019
862
1,074
96
while I agree a 4 thread CPU is not recommended for the task, I follow a pretty popular twitch streamer that streams from a single 6700K + 1080ti powered PC. He even plays many games at 4K.

I think a lot of streamers today are still on haswell / skylake i7's.
Yes, but a 6700K is hyperthreaded so it's 4 cores 8 threads. So are all the i7 lines up until recently when they turned i7s into i5s. The i3 line is all 2-4 cores and 4 threads and are really poor for streaming.
 

Thunder 57

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2007
1,535
1,433
136
I just helped a friend of mine out with an AMD build, only 4C/4T though. (CPU was included free.)

I had actually offered him a trial period, with both an Intel i5-7400 rig w/GTX 1060 3GB, 8GB DDR4, and building an AMD R3 1200 rig, with 16GB DDR4, and an RX 570. He ended up going with the AMD rig, and he wants to do gaming and streaming.
Trial period lol. And a free CPU? Between this post and others I've seen, you sound like an amazing friend!
 

SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
4,964
335
126
I would point him to some reviews or even youtube videos, if he still wants what he wants, fair enough

you can (and IMO should) help people with those choices, but in the end it's their choice.

in any case, the 9900K OC is likely still going to be the fastest gaming CPU once Ryzen 3000s are out (that said, I wouldn't buy one, I would sacrifice a little of that perf for saving a lot of money with the 3700x, or for future proofing a bit with the 3900x)
 

KentState

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2001
7,889
203
106
My only question is why now the time to invest at nearly full price into a 9900k? Already 8 months into the product cycle and nearly the same for the RTX 2xxx lineup. That is not the point where you pay full price. Granted the RTX cards are getting a price drop and refresh, but still the same money could have allowed him to enjoy the experience last fall. Maybe his financial situation changed, but my advice would be that if you want to spend top tier money, do it on bleeding edge or buy last years top end used.
 
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Panino Manino

Senior member
Jan 28, 2017
240
244
86
I have 2 questions for you guys:

1: what is your message to this person?
2: how hard should I flame him in 3 weeks when Ryzen 3000 goes up for purchase and he will be sitting there with a brand new intel 9th gen system?
Help him with his build, make him build the most expensive and necessary parts possible.
Process to bully and humiliate him for the rest of his life after he is proven a idiot next month.
 

Concillian

Diamond Member
May 26, 2004
3,755
8
81
1: what is your message to this person?
2: how hard should I flame him in 3 weeks when Ryzen 3000 goes up for purchase and he will be sitting there with a brand new intel 9th gen system?
1) It depends on whether he asked for my advice, or if he asked to help build his new computer.

If the former, then the response is "cool, GL, TTYL." If the latter it's "cool, this is the board and RAM I'd pair with that"

2) Regardless of #1, and well, regardless of anything, the answer between true friends is always "as much as possible." The deeper the emotional cut, the more you demonstrate that you truly understand your friend's heart and soul, and the better he understands just how much of a friend you really are, because only a true friend would be able to come up with flames and ribbings that cut so deeply.

Such a demonstration indicates that you are in touch with his feelings while masking any demonstration of said feelings. The art of this is the basis... No, not just the basis, but the very core of the modern western male / male friendship.
 
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