What Would You Recommend?

[IkeEisenhower]

I'm in the infancy of planning for a new system, it'll be my first totally "from-scratch", and I would greatly appreciate your input on cases that you have experience with, would recommend, have been dreaming about yourself, or otherwise would suit my needs.

In a nutshell, I'm not going to mod it. No one besides me will ever want to look inside, no windows, no plastic, lights or sirens. I'm looking for a mid-tower ATX, preferably with multiple intake/exhaust methods (blowhole and/or side), and I'd really like it to be all-aluminum. But if there's something else out there that's better, let me know. (Ti?) I'm of course not looking to spend a fortune, but I'm willing to shell out up to around two hundred if it's worth it. I'm overclocking minimally, and I do not plan on carrying the case around hardly any.

So far (tonight) I've been looking at Lian-Li and been confused by the similarity between their models, which their website fails to comment on. Cooler Master beckons with their 110 and 201 series, and I'm blown away by Enermax's coverage of their CS-5189AL. I want high quality and decent looks, but if it's kinda ugly but five degrees cooler,,, I'm not paying money to look at it. What do you guys know? What can you tell me?


I thank you all in advance for your replies and your time in considering this message.

 

[mechBgon]

Some of the best-ventilated off-the-shelf cases around are steel ones, actually. Try topping a Lite-On FS020 (dual 120mm exhaust plus one 120mm intake! :Q)

If you simply like the appearance of an aluminum case, hey, nothing wrong with that... how about a Lian-Li PC-86 on the basis of looks, that would look sharp with black drives. Or maybe the PC-68...

Here's another good resource: Newegg listing of Lian-Li's and you can browse the photo spreads (click "See It!" links) to see what they have to offer.

If I got an aluminum case, I would promptly remove the grillework over the case fans and replace it with chromed wire grilles, just to reduce the resistance to airflow

 

[Cerb]

Evercase E4252 for the cheaper ones, the Antec SLK3700AMB for a bit more, and then take MechBgon's list.

 

[deerslayer]

That Lian-Li PC-86 looks awfully nice!

That just might be my next case

The airflow in that Lite On would be hard to beat though!

 

[TXMatt]

Antec SLK3700AMG recommended earlier is good looking and a top notch cooler, but steel. The extra bit of cooling aluminum gives is not worth doubling its price on a Lian Li IMO.

The CompuCase LX-6A19 is cheaper yet ($39) comes w/o PSU and has only a different bezel than the Antec (no door), and you then have the freedom to choose a PSU that meets your needs if the 350watt in the Antec isn't enough for you. The Antec's paint job is a bit nicer.

Diminishing returns come into play when you compare identical cases in Aluminum and Steel. If you do go aluminum, spend money for the Lian Li, as less expensive ones will be thin walled and junky.

 

[IkeEisenhower]

mechBgon, first let me thank you for your prompt and courteous reply. Always nice to see in a forum. I appreciate your input per the excellent selection of steel cases and may consider them, though the reason I was into the aluminum models to begin with was to shuck that plastic crap that generally accompanies most steel cases. Though I'm not the most thermodynamically informed guy around, having a plastic insulator around heat-radiating components would seem to me to be a bad idea. I appreciate your Lian-Li suggestions and am currently delving into them for more info. Any comments on the Enermax?

As per your idea to replace the grillework, how feasible is that with the average aluminum case? I've worked metal before, but I'm not comfortable hacking apart aluminum with my current set of skills/tools. Do they just pop out? I would think someone would make kits for just that... ?

Again, thank you for your response, and I bid you a fine day.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: IkeEisenhower
mechBgon, first let me thank you for your prompt and courteous reply. Always nice to see in a forum. I appreciate your input per the excellent selection of steel cases and may consider them, though the reason I was into the aluminum models to begin with was to shuck that plastic crap that generally accompanies most steel cases. Though I'm not the most thermodynamically informed guy around, having a plastic insulator around heat-radiating components would seem to me to be a bad idea.

It makes no difference. By the time any heat gets to the case (save from the sides of hard drives, which is minimal anyway), much more has gone into the air. The best way to keep cool is to have a nice way for air to come in the bottom front and front in general, and exit the top rear. The case material has nothing significant to do with it. Aluminum is light-weight. That's about it (and brushed aluminum looks good). The cases with great cooling tend to be the quiter ones around, namely the said Evercase and Antec (also some Palo Altos, which you've likely seen on MicronPC machines and some older Dells, which have tons of plastic...but also just the right space for air to move around the components--I'm about to move into one until I can afford the Evercase E4252 or Antec SLK3700AMB).

I appreciate your Lian-Li suggestions and am currently delving into them for more info. Any comments on the Enermax?

Enermax also has excellent cases, if a bit...odd, sometimes. When it comes to working inside a case, the extra money usually does get you more room and many of the little things that make it easier (like holes for a screwdrives so you don't have to use it at an odd angle in several places) to work on. While I really like the Evercase, as I'm a bit frugal, and it is the best for the money, IMO...with a very few exceptions you will get your money's worth.

As per your idea to replace the grillework, how feasible is that with the average aluminum case? I've worked metal before, but I'm not comfortable hacking apart aluminum with my current set of skills/tools. Do they just pop out? I would think someone would make kits for just that... ?

If it's like steel, drill out a big hole, and then use a dremel (or split tubing to cover the rough edge) to get it looking all pretty.

Again, thank you for your response, and I bid you a fine day.

 

[mechBgon]

To amplify on what Cerb said, case material shouldn't make a difference.

Analogy: if you park a car in the sun, what will help more to keep the interior cool... making the body out of aluminum, or rolling down the windows? Ah so... ventilation is the answer.

In most well-designed steel cases like the SLK3700AMB or the other Antec/Chieftech models, the air is being turned over completely in under 20 seconds (possibly way under, depending on the strength of your fans). Air can only heat up so much in 20 seconds

Now, if you want a classy-looking system, aluminum is still nice. Regarding the cutting of the grilles, look at how restricted the Lian-Li's fan ports are by design, and you can see why one might want to. It shouldn't be very hard... just use a fine-toothed hacksaw blade to complete the circle at the outer edge of each fan port, use a half-round file to smooth the edges to your satisfaction, and put some chromed wire grilles in their place to keep fingers, tails, etc out of the fans.

 

[TXMatt]

Originally posted by: IkeEisenhower
mechBgon, As per your idea to replace the grillework, how feasible is that with the average aluminum case? I've worked metal before, but I'm not comfortable hacking apart aluminum with my current set of skills/tools. Do they just pop out? I would think someone would make kits for just that... ?

Ike, a lot of mod supply stores carry a great tool called a nibbler. I find it very valuable for simple case mods. Many people swear by Dremels/Hole Saws, and I have those as well, but now always use my nibbler to cut out the stamped grilles over the fans or enlarge existing fan holes. A nibbler "nibbles" out small bits of metal with each squeeze. It is much like those hand held paper punches you used to make designs in grade school, only the nibbler cuts out little rectangles from the metal. The huge advantage is that it cuts out bits large enough that you don't need to bother removing all your components, clean up is easy, and you don't need to worry about slipping and scratching your case finish like you do with a dremel. Directron and Xoxide both carry nibblers for around $10, however if you are going to use yours a lot like I do mine, consider spending $20 and get a Klein Brand Nibbler .

As several other posters noted, Al cases aren't all they are cracked up to be. Think about this: a midtower case is around 4 cubic feet of space. A pair of 120mm fans (7 volt modded to run quiet) move ~130 CFM. This means the air volume contained within the case is being completely exchanged twice a second. How much of a difference do you think will the radiant heat release properties of the enclosure that surrounds that constantly moving air will make?

When people buy aluminum cases, the extra money gets them looks and status. The weight difference isn't that appreciable except when the manufacturer thins the material (thinner guage) to exagerate the weight difference and save $$ on material. The thermal difference is mostly hogwash. Since you said you are not going to be moving it much, and cooling capabilites are most important, you should examine the number and size of the fans of cases to get the best cooling rather than enclosure material. The more 120mm fans the case has, the better it can stay cool and quiet.

Have you checked out coolcases.com? They have several different cases available pre-modded (fan grilles cut out, grommet mounting, edge molding installed, extra fans installed). Let me tell you $150 spent on a steel case there will get you a much cooler running case than $150 spent on a Lian Li. Their "D-8000" is the same chassis as the Antec SLK3700 AMG/Compucase LX-6A19 that Cerb and I suggested earlier. It can be had with Mods Package 2 for $112, or Mods Package 3 for $142. They also have the LiteOn FS020 that mechBgon suggested. If you don't want to mod your fan grilles, this would be a great solution, however choosing fans and hacking out grilles is fun for me. That case is only $39 if you buy your fans you do those mods yourself. Open fan grilles will make a MUCH bigger difference than the aluminum/steel difference as stamped grilles usually restrict 50% of the airflow potential of a fan. It is a MUST if you want your case to cool to its potential.

Matt

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: TXMatt

Originally posted by: IkeEisenhower
mechBgon, As per your idea to replace the grillework, how feasible is that with the average aluminum case? I've worked metal before, but I'm not comfortable hacking apart aluminum with my current set of skills/tools. Do they just pop out? I would think someone would make kits for just that... ?

Ike, a lot of mod supply stores

Which often look a lot like general hardware stores

carry a great tool called a nibbler. I find it very valuable for simple case mods. Many people swear by Dremels/Hole Saws, and I have those as well, but now always use my nibbler to cut out the stamped grilles over the fans or enlarge existing fan holes.

Provided it can fit in there, I'do that as well, using the dremel to smooth it off. Tin snips work great, too.

A nibbler "nibbles" out small bits of metal with each squeeze. It is much like those hand held paper punches you used to make designs in grade school, only the nibbler cuts out little rectangles from the metal. The huge advantage is that it cuts out bits large enough that you don't need to bother removing all your components,

...though it can get pieces down in there, and can make smaller slivers fly off into random directions. I would never use even a nibbler w/ my parts still in the case.

clean up is easy,

Yup. At worst, on carpet, a vacuum cleaner will do fine.

and you don't need to worry about slipping and scratching your case finish like you do with a dremel.

Though you want to make sure you are completely level with the case's finish, else you can make nasty little marks. Just something to note when you're nibbling on a part that's at an angle.

Directron and Xoxide both carry nibblers for around $10, however if you are going to use yours a lot like I do mine, consider spending $20 and get a Klein Brand Nibbler.

It always pays to do that, right down to screwdrivers.

As several other posters noted, Al cases aren't all they are cracked up to be. Think about this: a midtower case is around 4 cubic feet of space. A pair of 120mm fans (7 volt modded to run quiet) move ~130 CFM. This means the air volume contained within the case is being completely exchanged twice a second. How much of a difference do you think will the radiant heat release properties of the enclosure that surrounds that constantly moving air will make?

In reality it is nowhere near twice a second (obstructions), but once every 10 seconds *maybe*, or a bit less. Still very fast. However, properly placed 80mm fans can do almost as good a job, though they do lack the coolness factor (and most cases have enough room for a 120mm fan, but don't have space for mounting one...why, random case manufacturers, why?).

When people buy aluminum cases, the extra money gets them looks and status. The weight difference isn't that appreciable except when the manufacturer thins the material (thinner guage) to exagerate the weight difference and save $$ on material.

Which is a good thing you're carrying it to a LAN party every week or two...but bad if you're not.

The thermal difference is mostly hogwash. Since you said you are not going to be moving it much, and cooling capabilites are most important, you should examine the number and size of the fans of cases to get the best cooling rather than enclosure material. The more 120mm fans the case has, the better it can stay cool and quiet.

Have you checked out coolcases.com? They have several different cases available pre-modded (fan grilles cut out, grommet mounting, edge molding installed, extra fans installed). Let me tell you $150 spent on a steel case there will get you a much cooler running case than $150 spent on a Lian Li. Their "D-8000" is the same chassis as the Antec SLK3700 AMG/Compucase LX-6A19 that Cerb and I suggested earlier. It can be had with Mods Package 2 for $112, or Mods Package 3 for $142. They also have the LiteOn FS020 that mechBgon suggested. If you don't want to mod your fan grilles, this would be a great solution, however choosing fans and hacking out grilles is fun for me. That case is only $39 if you buy your fans you do those mods yourself. Open fan grilles will make a MUCH bigger difference than the aluminum/steel difference as stamped grilles usually restrict 50% of the airflow potential of a fan. It is a MUST if you want your case to cool to its potential.

Matt

 

[IkeEisenhower]

Let me stop a second to thank everyone involved in this thread. Your overwhelming response leaves me at a bit of a loss, but I cannot go any farther without thanking you for putting your time and hard work into this discourse. I appreciate it more than you know and am finding it quite helpful indeed. I apologise if I don't reply to each message, but I'll do what I can to keep up my side of the discussion.

 

[IkeEisenhower]

TXMatt:

Ike, a lot of mod supply stores carry a great tool called a nibbler. I find it very valuable for simple case mods.

Thank you for the information, but I don't really want to get into the modding scene myself quite yet. Your advice, though, went into that bin in the back of my head in case I decide I do want to.

As several other posters noted, Al cases aren't all they are cracked up to be. Think about this: a midtower case is around 4 cubic feet of space. A pair of 120mm fans (7 volt modded to run quiet) move ~130 CFM. ... When people buy aluminum cases, the extra money gets them looks and status. The weight difference isn't that appreciable except when the manufacturer thins the material (thinner guage) to exagerate the weight difference and save $$ on material.

I fully admit that I have been sucked in by the looks and popularity of aluminum cases. Your points are certainly valid, and, having experience building golf clubs, I am very much aware that matierials and manufacture do not always meet spec set by the advertising, especially when the "new, improved" matierial is more costly than the old standby. I love steel, I really do, and I've been looking around at the cases you recommended. And now, to pants myself in front of such a studious and knowledgeable group, I still can't help but think of how much prettier the damned things are. Intellectually, I know that hardly anyone aside from myself and my wife will ever lay eyes on it, but I look at those Chieftec towers that always grace the covers of magazines and I retch. I'm sure they house much more impressive systems and, in so, laugh all the way to the bank, but the idea still appeals to me to have a clean, neat, somewhat impressive-looking case. It doesn't have to be aluminum, that myth is now deposed, but how much more are we talking for a lack of beige or black plastic? I feel quite the heel at the foot of this veritable mountain of crosswise information, but I must ask.

Have you checked out coolcases.com?

I'm heading up there now, thanks for the tip.

Thanks again for your hospitality!

 

[IkeEisenhower]

Now that I have all this attention, maybe I could direct a few other cooling-related questions your way... As I mentioned, I'm building a new machine ground-up, and I have nothing for it yet. What I'm doing now is working up the component manifest for the things I feel best-suited to the application. I'm aware that the fans that ship with most cases are dec ent, but not the quietest or pushiest on the market. What would be your opinions on replacing these fans (again, I don't really want to hack up the case) with aftermarket editions, and if it seems like a sound idea, whose fans get the seal of approval?

Again, I appreciate all the attention and thank you in advance for any and all replies to this and the original question of cases.

 

[mechBgon]

I still can't help but think of how much prettier the damned things are

Like I said, nothing wrong with that Whose money is it? That's right, it's yours

To make a long story short, if you want a good fan for case ventiation, the Panaflo L1A is a longtime favorite, with a good flow-to-noise ratio. The Enermax dual-ball-bearing thermally-regulated model is another nice quiet fan, and will pick up speed a little if its thermal probe gets hot.

Panaflo L1A 80mm fan
Enermax thermally-regulated 80mm fan

If you got the Panaflo L1A, it would go well with one of these fan controllers, which also happen to look nice: Zalman fan controller thing, goes in 5.25" bay This lets you control fan speed or switch fans off.

 

[Cerb]

Due to my strange sleeping schedule after trying to get a promise controller working for almost 5 hours a few nights ago (well, into morning--and the solution was just a BIOS flash---AAAHH!), mechBgon beat me too it.
I'll be trying out the Panaflos very soon, and aside from gradually gaining the ball bearing whine, which you either know about or don't need to worry about*, the Enermax fans are great. They look good, are much sturdier than they appear, and push air pretty good.

* - in middle GA, ball bearing fans tend to start whining, universally, within a year, and go bad faster than most places. However, we also have very humid summers and some extremely high pollen counts. Given how PCs that have been within a few dozen miles of where I live get loud very soon, yet PCs that have been running for years 24/7, around 100 or more miles away (or in very well filtered offices) are still silent with occasionally the very same fans, I think my experiences are on the extreme end. Here's why: at a point this spring, the pollen count here was over 3700...in Atlanta, it was 174. We get it *all* . However, while a bit of whine escapes, my three Enermax adjustable fans are still pushing as much air as ever, and last I checked, the temp controlled fans I've used are still doing fine.