What would you do? Dell 2001FP vs Samsung 213T!

[KristopherKubicki]

I just ordered a 213T for all you junkies I should have it by friday but im going to COMDEX to talk to some display manufacturers (then I have 2 midterms). I also got a 30" LCD here from Albatron. I am done with school early december, but I will try to have both of those LCDs reviewed for you guys before then!

Kristopher

 

[tboo]

Originally posted by: KristopherKubicki
I just ordered a 213T for all you junkies I should have it by friday but im going to COMDEX to talk to some display manufacturers (then I have 2 midterms). I also got a 30" LCD here from Albatron. I am done with school early december, but I will try to have both of those LCDs reviewed for you guys before then!

Kristopher

Cool!

 

[Tekknikal]

CH2, had a chance to play rainbow 6 and UT yet? I'm anxious to hear your comments

 

[DN]

I would also be interested in knowing how the 213T does with games that are fast-paced (Battlefield 1942, UT2003, etc).. Please let us know if it made a difference whether you were using DVI or not as well.. Thanks.

 

[codehack2]

Originally posted by: Tekknikal
CH2, had a chance to play rainbow 6 and UT yet? I'm anxious to hear your comments

I got about 30 minutes in on UT2k3 and R6 and no tearing/smearing/ghosting. To qualify this... VSYNC is enabled in all games (and drivers) and I'm using a DVI-D connection from an EVGA 5900Ultra. Also, I'm broadband impaired (i.e. stuck on dialup), so I can't comment as to online play. Tonight, if I get a chance, I'm going to give GTA:VC a go and see how it fairs. Acconding to GamePC, this title is notorious for exhibiting ghosting on LCD's.

For what it is worth, 2 days later, and I'm still extremely pleased with the purchase.

CH2

 

[DN]

Here's a couple more reviews that I found -- though I'd prefer to here from people here who have this LCD..

Review #1
Review #2
Review #3
Review #4
Review #5

 

[codehack2]

Just an FYI for all you new LCD users out there... do yourself a favor and download Ntest, a nokia applicaiton designed to test/calibrate CRT's. This program came out in the late 90's, but works great for tuning in your new LCD. The color tests will also help you to spot dead or hot pixels. Thankfully, mine had none

CH2

 

[Tekknikal]

Originally posted by: codehack2

Originally posted by: Tekknikal
CH2, had a chance to play rainbow 6 and UT yet? I'm anxious to hear your comments

I got about 30 minutes in on UT2k3 and R6 and no tearing/smearing/ghosting. To qualify this... VSYNC is enabled in all games (and drivers) and I'm using a DVI-D connection from an EVGA 5900Ultra. Also, I'm broadband impaired (i.e. stuck on dialup), so I can't comment as to online play. Tonight, if I get a chance, I'm going to give GTA:VC a go and see how it fairs. Acconding to GamePC, this title is notorious for exhibiting ghosting on LCD's.

For what it is worth, 2 days later, and I'm still extremely pleased with the purchase.

CH2

Great, thanks.

 

[Looney]

No contest, the Dell

 

[AndyHill]

Originally posted by: KristopherKubicki
I just ordered a 213T for all you junkies I should have it by friday but im going to COMDEX to talk to some display manufacturers (then I have 2 midterms). I also got a 30" LCD here from Albatron. I am done with school early december, but I will try to have both of those LCDs reviewed for you guys before then!

Kristopher

Ok I´m really interested to see how this turns out. When is the review going to be published? Would you mind giving us some first impressions? Personally I don´t traust any numbers in TFT spec sheets before they get reviewed. The 2001FP review is out and we have some idea on how it performs but I´d VERY much like to know how it compares to the 213T in real life. If you want to be nice you´ll also try out Il-2 Sturmovik and Lock on: Modern Air Combat (demo versions available for both games). Of course they´re not nearly as popular as Quake etc. but they are different from most other games so people who like flight sims have very different views on what makes a good monitor. For example the framerates might be typically as low as 10-30 and trying to spot an enemy plane no larger than one or two pixels is the extreme stress test for a monitor. If you´re kind enough to use Il-2 demo (http://www.3dgamers.com/dl/games/il2sturmovik/il2demov20.zip.html) I can provide a recording of a typical gaming situation so that you don´t have to bother flying yourself.

Ps. Mr. Santa Claus himself is known to use flying reindeer for transportation so he´s definitely an avioation enthusiast and would probably appreciate the Il-2 test greatly.

 

[KristopherKubicki]

yeah im working on this... .sorry guys! Weddings, funerals, XMAS all seem to fall at the same time Patience grasshopper.

Kristopher

 

[AndyHill]

Betelgeuse, do you already have the 2001FP and if so how do you think it compares to the Samsung?


About the review, I will of course be extremely patient.
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Ok, I was just extremely patient for a while, do I now get to read the review?

 

[Dewey]

I agree that comparing the Samsung to the Dell in the real world is the big question.

 

[Big Lar]

I wish I had a 213T to compare this 2001FP I received today, but I will say this, I have no "screen rightness " issues like some have, and No dead pixels, I love it/ COD looks great on this panel, and I just got done doing a 1/2hr of the Original Serious Sam demo,game at 1600/1200, looks great. I don't run with vsync enabled either...

 

[AndyHill]

Viewsonic Vp211B might be another interesting monitor to try out.

 

[SuPrEIVIE]

Originally posted by: AndyHill
Viewsonic Vp211B might be another interesting monitor to try out.

yes check that monitor out!

 

[Tekknikal]

well its been a while since ive posted. a lot's happened.
the short story is that ive used a 213T for around a month and a 2001FP for a week or so. I've intensely examined both, side by side, over this time.

My conclusion is that yes the 2001FP has less ghosting, but in every other aspect (not including price), the Samsung is better.
I feel the samsung to be worth the money to those who can budget it.
If ghosting > image quality+size to you, then go with the dell.

That's my opinion, although I do have evidence. I posted my views elsewhere and it seems that many disagree. I should note thoguh that many have never seen both side by side and are going on ATs review to do their comparison, which I feel to not be completely accurate. Anyway my opinion led to a post that was very highly controversial and a thread thats not worth my time. So I'll stick to my conclusion about the screen. If anyone disagrees here, fine. Either way, good luck spending $800+

edit: also ive seen some people online who have had both on their desks and prefer the 213T. I havent seen anyone who has had both a 213T and a 2001FP side by side on their desk and preferred the 2001FP.

 

[AndyHill]

Tekknikal, your conclusions seem to support the impression I get from everything I´ve read about these two monitors. The $1300 question is of course just how bad the ghosting actually is. You mentioned that you play flight sims and I wonder if you have experience with for example Il-2 or LoMAC on these monitors? If those sims work fine any other games are pretty meaningless. I use TrackIR and that means lots of panning and I guess trouble for the LCD screen. Do you think either of these monitors would be good enough for my purposes and if so, which screen would be better? This might be the first chance to hear impression from a gamer who plays same kind of games as I do. How about DVDs?

 

[tboo]

I get my 213t tomorrow(christmas present)-ill post my opinion later that day

 

[visualguy]

The 213T is better than the 2001FP in certain areas: it displays colors somewhat better and it doesn't have the "graininess" of the 2001FP. However, it is worse in other areas. One is response time which has been discussed, but there's another issue which is backlight flicker. I don't notice any backlight flicker with the 2000FP or the 2001FP which have rock-solid lighting. With the 213T, there's noticeable flicker which looks like the 60Hz flicker you see when looking at a fluorescent light. This is particularly noticeable for the first 30-60 minutes after turning on the unit until it warms up completely. It's quite annoying when looking at white windows such as an empty browser window. It sort of goes away when the unit warms up, but it's still not as flicker-free as the 2001FP even then. I'm particularly sensitive to flicker, so other people may not notice this as much.

I noticed this problem on two different units: one made in August 2003 in Korea and the other made in October 2003 in Mexico. The August 2003 one is somewhat better than the October 2003 one. The 213T also has a very long warm-up time of over 30 minutes during which the brightness gradually increases until it reaches a steady state. The 2001FP reaches a steady state much quicker. Another observation that I have is that there's a slight difference in color temperature between the two 213T units. The October 2003 one has more red. Such inconsistencies may be inevitable in monitors (LCDs as well as CRTs), but it's particularly annoying with the 213T since it doesn't allow you to change the color settings in DVI mode. When you use DVI with the 213T, you can change the color settings only in software. This means that you can't tweak the colors to be consistent across two monitors in a dual-monitor configuration since you can't adjust the colors for the two monitors separately. The 2001FP doesn't have this problem since it allows you to change the color settings in DVI mode.

Just to add a couple more points: the viewing angles on the 213T aren't as good as on the 2001FP. Also, the buttons on the front of the 213T aren't as good as the ones on the 2001FP.

Overall, I have to say that neither is perfect. I would definitely go with the 2001FP for gaming and the 213T for graphics work. For text work it's not so easy to decide. It depends on what annoys you more: flicker or graininess...

 

[Dewey]

tboo, Where did you order it from?

I bought a 213t at Best Buy and it had a dead sub pixel. I returned it and bought another 213t at Fry's which has a pixel stuck on. I guess I'll return this one too.
I really like the 213t. My primary use it general computing and photography. However I expect to get one without dead pixels or pixels stuck on. I hope this isn't too much to expect.

 

[tboo]

Originally posted by: Dewey
tboo, Where did you order it from?

I bought a 213t at Best Buy and it had a dead sub pixel. I returned it and bought another 213t at Fry's which has a pixel stuck on. I guess I'll return this one too.
I really like the 213t. My primary use it general computing and photography. However I expect to get one without dead pixels or pixels stuck on. I hope this isn't too much to expect.

I got mine from Dell. 1st impressions-the screen real estate compared to my 2040u seems enormous! Screen is bright & contrast is great as well. Colors are vivid-just how I like them. I cant believe it, but it seems I got one with no dead or stuck pixels!.

I must admit, I was very worried about the gaming performance with this monitor. I tried some games I have installed areadyevestation, Vice City, Never Winter Nights & BF1942. NWNs looked great-no ghosting-same with Devestation(a FPS). For some reason VC wont run now-why I have no idea. BF1942 does have ghosting & at 1st I was distraught, however, after playing a bit I realized the only time I see it is when Im trying to see it. If I just play the game I dont notice it at all, but if I pick an object(such as a tree) & move the mouse around, I will see ghosting. Overall, I am happy so far. Does anybody have any other game suggestions to try?

Update-I just installed UT2003 & it looks fantastic-no ghosting!

 

[Tekknikal]

The futuremark demo looked great on the 213T. I only played MSFS on it. I've since gone on an extended vacation and won't be back there for a while.

I dont suspect panning would be a problem. I think flight sims would look better on the 213T, although its just my opinion. I think that FPS games are the almost the only ones that could really benefit (or maximize the benefit) from the response time of the 2001FP...then again I think that the 213T isnt that bad at all.

I think that the poster who had backlight flicker had a defective unit- I did not notice that at all.. in a few different lighting conditions. Also I too noticed that it takes a little time for the Samsung to show colors at its best and brightest- although it only took mine about 1min normally, no more than 3 mins...so again Im not sure that the other person had a good unit(?)
The 213T also takes longer to pick up input signals. Sometimes more than 10 seconds. It can be annoying (think:wake up out of sleep, etc). All in all though, I think that these downsides are ok and worth it, for the image you end up with... I think these things are a small price to pay.
It really does amount to an issue of slight ghosting and more money vs 'grainy' display, poorer colors, and an inch less.

Honestly I think that if you can really afford it, get the 213T. It's worth it unless you're REALLY hardcore FPS.

It's the kind of monitor you'll want to have around for a long time. Even when response times get better. You'll be able to use it as a TV in a small room or something, for example (just connect a htpc or input converter or similar to it). Video looks amazing on it. The display is really good. The Dell on the otherhand will be easily outclassed when LCDs advance because other displays will have better colors and will be a lot clearer.

Then again if you're on a tight budget the Dell may be your only option.

 

[AndyHill]

Actually where I live the Samsung is the slightly "cheaper" (or rather the less unbelievably expensive) option, because the only place to get the 2001fp is from Dell and they seem to be one of the most expensive stores around. I won´t tell you how much these things cost here so that you won´t see nightmares for the next couple of months. This CRT has been giving me so much trouble lately that I´m just about ready to order the Samsung and if it doesn´t work for me I´ll return it and get the Dell.

Flight simulators are a special and often overlooked genre and for me they´re by far the most important one. I don´t have that much time for gaming anymore and although I have a lot of great games It´s almost always a choice between Il-2 Sturmovik and LOMAC when I decide to play for a while. MS Flight Sim probably isn´t too demanding for the response time, but I suspect fast paced combat sims especially with TrackIR (the only way to play simulators) might be different. I might find out for myself soon; while writing this post I had to punch the monitor twice HARD. How exactly would an LCD be worse in fast moving games if my CRT shows severe ghosting in still images?

 

[Dewey]

I'm really lovin' this 213t also. I played Max Payne 2 and the ghosting was minor to me. I hope the next one doesn't have any dead pixels.