What would stop AMD from making socket M2 quad core and DDR3 capable?

[forumposter32]

I'm VERY suspicious of AMD with this stupid plan to change socket M2 from 1207 pins and DD3 RAM to friggin' 940 pins and DDR2. Is this a way to force us to upgrade every single year? Because the way I look at it, I may as well wait until quad core capable motherboards come out before I go multi-core. Because hey, if they do come out with 16 cores later on, how would I feel with a dual core? Well, I might feel better having a quad core when the 16 cores come out.

Maybe some odd thinking there but still, what would possess them to change plans like that?

 

[BigCoolJesus]

Originally posted by: forumposter32
I'm VERY suspicious of AMD with this stupid plan to change socket M2 from 1207 pins and DD3 RAM to friggin' 940 pins and DDR2. Is this a way to force us to upgrade every single year? Because the way I look at it, I may as well wait until quad core capable motherboards come out before I go multi-core. Because hey, if they do come out with 16 cores later on, how would I feel with a dual core? Well, I might feel better having a quad core when the 16 cores come out.

Maybe some odd thinking there but still, what would possess them to change plans like that?

DDR3 is not needed.
DDR2 isnt even needed right now.
2GB of DDR ram is barley the standard yet.

Its ovbious theres not enough memory demand to constitute such a move (hell, dual core still has some room to live, as games arent even dual core standard yet)



and your line of thinking is totally off. I mean, i guess you mine as well wait for 32 core CPU's to come out, because how would you feel if you only had quad core?
But then youd have to wait for 64 core CPU's to come out, because how would you feel if you had a 16 core CPU?

Thats basically your way of looking at it, that not matter what you wont have the best, so you mine as well keep waiting? :roll:

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: BigCoolJesus

Originally posted by: forumposter32
I'm VERY suspicious of AMD with this stupid plan to change socket M2 from 1207 pins and DD3 RAM to friggin' 940 pins and DDR2. Is this a way to force us to upgrade every single year? Because the way I look at it, I may as well wait until quad core capable motherboards come out before I go multi-core. Because hey, if they do come out with 16 cores later on, how would I feel with a dual core? Well, I might feel better having a quad core when the 16 cores come out.

Maybe some odd thinking there but still, what would possess them to change plans like that?

DDR3 is not needed.



and your line of thinking is totally off. I mean, i guess you mine as well wait for 32 core CPU's to come out, because how would you feel if you only had quad core?
But then youd have to wait for 64 core CPU's to come out, because how would you feel if you had a 16 core CPU?

Thats basically your way of looking at it, that not matter what you wont have the best, so you mine as well keep waiting? :roll:

Why get M2 when 939 offers dual core support and DDR is fairly inexpensive?
I think the point is that M2 will offer very little over 939 other than speed bumps, and until a confirmed quad core socket is released, there's not much point in upgrading, since 939 can handle dual core CPU's.

 

[coomar]

intel research indicates that the jump from 4 to 8 cores and further along is very small, the best performance gains come from 1-->2, 2-->4, it was an anandtech article in the summer

the socket after m2 is shaping up to be a big step forward, ddr3, on-die pci-e controller

 

[Duvie]

It is celar that AMD is being forced to DDR2 by the market and the push of the market biggest leader INtel...DDR2 now is getting more plentiful and can often times be found cheaper then same speed DDR...The cas timings are a bit high and this will hamper AMD a bit, but if the main memory makers switch to full DDR2 and shut-off DDR production then AMD is going to be standing in the wind with their you know what swingin....

 

[Gamingphreek]

Where did you hear that AMD was originally going to use DDR3 and the socket a 1207pin. As far as i know those were just random rumors floating around. As for DDR3 i dont believe that is completely ready yet. THere was nothing set in concrete or even officially said about that so they didn't change their mind.

-Kevin

 

[biostud]

Have I missed something or will AMD not make both the M2 (940) and the Socket F (1207)?????
With the Socket F aimed at multi CPU setups only?

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: biostud
Have I missed something or will AMD not make both the M2 (940) and the Socket F (1207)?????
With the Socket F aimed at multi CPU setups only?

I haven't seen any new official roadmaps from AMD so I am not sure what the heck he is talking about....

As mentioned by Kevin DDR3 was rumors and was never validified other then some blog of tech article showing DDR2 has weaknesses AMD would do better to go to DDR3 and by pass DDR2...However it had no logic and reality behind it cause no manufacturer was currently producing them...

 

[Sixtyfour]

1207 pin socket is for Opteron, and it propably has wider HTT, and more than 2 memory channels.

 

[sonoma1993]

with amd going to socket m2 and ddr 2 sometime next year there athlon64 x2 chips are going to benefit more from the ddr2 than a single core chip.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Sixtyfour
1207 pin socket is for Opteron, and it propably has wider HTT, and more than 2 memory channels.

I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt that AMD would invest in Quad Channel Memory architecture. It would be a foolish move considering they are not pushed for more bandwidth as it is.

Additionally, in theory Dual Core chips would benefit more, however again, AMD chips are not bandwidth limited, so the effect would be unnoticable.

-Kevin

 

[First]

AMD, nor any company, is the least bit worried that enthusiasts have to "upgrade" every year to a different socket. They'll release as many sockets as necessary to increase profits. And besides, enthusiasts don't usually like to keep the same board for 2 or 3 years, they usually buy the latest board with the newest chipset. So having an upgrade path is usually irrelevant for enthusiasts anyway.

 

[Vee]

There's no sense in choosing socket in expectance of longterm "upgradability".
Only people that will ever work for are OC hobbyists that goes through a number CPUs in a rather short time. And then only because it saves them the hassle of changing MB. Even so it seems OCers goes through a fair amount of MBs too, so...

I'm sure AMD haven't changed any plans of substance.
DDR3 isn't in sight, because there's not enough market drive yet behind it. For that reason it's necessary to go DDR2. Why? Because it's a solution for larger amounts of ram. We're moving towards 2, soon 4GB ram.

The important thing about M2 is that it will be minimal inconvenience for MB manufacturers. It's still basically a 939 board.
You also need to understand that lots of pins result in an expensive package. A significant part of the retail cost of a CPU.

Multicores is an exciting development, but early on you'll get good benefits from dualcore. There doesn't seem to me to be terribly much sense in rushing quadcore, or something else, until software have been through a transformation.
The thing is, Intel has to be gently led onwards towards new strategic mistakes , the dual, large Conroe cores. AMD's best hope for surviving a few years more, is that Intel continues to counter/follow the last thing AMD did. The upcoming Conroe is basically an Athlon64 X2 on steroids. It was expected. There's not much AMD can do to directly counter that. Intel have vastly superior resources and is also able to get better paid for their CPUs than AMD. AMD's only hope lies in not revealing it's hand, whatever that is, too early.

Finally, considering the capability of your current system, I can't see why you're so agitated? You should be able to relax and sit comfortly awaiting whatever materializes in the future. And if quadcores, or something else, is late in coming at consumer prices, I can see nothing wrong with dual core. Should be viable for a good while.

 

[forumposter32]

Originally posted by: coomar
intel research indicates that the jump from 4 to 8 cores and further along is very small, the best performance gains come from 1-->2, 2-->4, it was an anandtech article in the summer

the socket after m2 is shaping up to be a big step forward, ddr3, on-die pci-e controller

Thanks for posting that. I believe I saw something like that mentioned before. I'll try to find it when I'm not lazy.

Well, to that person who said I was agitated. Yeah, maybe it's just me. But I'm sure I read about DDR3 and 1207 pins somewhere. I just can't remember.

 

[biostud]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: Sixtyfour
1207 pin socket is for Opteron, and it propably has wider HTT, and more than 2 memory channels.

I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt that AMD would invest in Quad Channel Memory architecture. It would be a foolish move considering they are not pushed for more bandwidth as it is.

Additionally, in theory Dual Core chips would benefit more, however again, AMD chips are not bandwidth limited, so the effect would be unnoticable.

-Kevin

Except this would be used for server boards might benefit more from increased bandwidth, and possible in the future quad cores. Other rumors talked about a PCIe on-die controller.

 

[forumposter32]

Originally posted by: biostud

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: Sixtyfour
1207 pin socket is for Opteron, and it propably has wider HTT, and more than 2 memory channels.

I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt that AMD would invest in Quad Channel Memory architecture. It would be a foolish move considering they are not pushed for more bandwidth as it is.

Additionally, in theory Dual Core chips would benefit more, however again, AMD chips are not bandwidth limited, so the effect would be unnoticable.

-Kevin

Except this would be used for server boards might benefit more from increased bandwidth, and possible in the future quad cores. Other rumors talked about a PCIe on-die controller.

I thought they wanted to put EVERYTHING on the CPU.

 

[Sixtyfour]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: Sixtyfour
1207 pin socket is for Opteron, and it propably has wider HTT, and more than 2 memory channels.

I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt that AMD would invest in Quad Channel Memory architecture. It would be a foolish move considering they are not pushed for more bandwidth as it is.

Additionally, in theory Dual Core chips would benefit more, however again, AMD chips are not bandwidth limited, so the effect would be unnoticable.

-Kevin

3-4 channels would make it possible to use more RAM sticks with good speeds.

Today best for dual channel is 6-8 sticks, and for tri channel it would be 9-12, and for quad channel it would be 12-16.

16 x 4GB = 64GB per socket.

 

[biostud]

Originally posted by: forumposter32

Originally posted by: biostud

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: Sixtyfour
1207 pin socket is for Opteron, and it propably has wider HTT, and more than 2 memory channels.

I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt that AMD would invest in Quad Channel Memory architecture. It would be a foolish move considering they are not pushed for more bandwidth as it is.

Additionally, in theory Dual Core chips would benefit more, however again, AMD chips are not bandwidth limited, so the effect would be unnoticable.

-Kevin

Except this would be used for server boards might benefit more from increased bandwidth, and possible in the future quad cores. Other rumors talked about a PCIe on-die controller.

I thought they wanted to put EVERYTHING on the CPU.

no need to increase the cost of the CPU, unless it actually increase the over all speed. Normal users are not really limited in PCIe speeds, but large servers with multiple CPU's might benefit from it.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: forumposter32

Originally posted by: coomar
intel research indicates that the jump from 4 to 8 cores and further along is very small, the best performance gains come from 1-->2, 2-->4, it was an anandtech article in the summer

the socket after m2 is shaping up to be a big step forward, ddr3, on-die pci-e controller

Thanks for posting that. I believe I saw something like that mentioned before. I'll try to find it when I'm not lazy.

Well, to that person who said I was agitated. Yeah, maybe it's just me. But I'm sure I read about DDR3 and 1207 pins somewhere. I just can't remember.

The testing methodoligy would have be known for a statement like that.

Of course 4 and 8 and more cores would have problems on a 1066fsb and dual channel DDR2, there isnt enough bandwidth.

Opterons would circumvent this problem entirely because of the on die controller, the only downside would be the motherboard would REQUIRE so many memory chips installed to get more channels.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: forumposter32

Originally posted by: biostud

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: Sixtyfour
1207 pin socket is for Opteron, and it propably has wider HTT, and more than 2 memory channels.

I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt that AMD would invest in Quad Channel Memory architecture. It would be a foolish move considering they are not pushed for more bandwidth as it is.

Additionally, in theory Dual Core chips would benefit more, however again, AMD chips are not bandwidth limited, so the effect would be unnoticable.

-Kevin

Except this would be used for server boards might benefit more from increased bandwidth, and possible in the future quad cores. Other rumors talked about a PCIe on-die controller.

I thought they wanted to put EVERYTHING on the CPU.

There are multiple semiconductor companies going for the "system on a chip" approach. None are close to a working performance product though. Give it a few more die shrinks.

 

[Topweasel]

Originally posted by: forumposter32
I'm VERY suspicious of AMD with this stupid plan to change socket M2 from 1207 pins and DD3 RAM to friggin' 940 pins and DDR2. Is this a way to force us to upgrade every single year? Because the way I look at it, I may as well wait until quad core capable motherboards come out before I go multi-core. Because hey, if they do come out with 16 cores later on, how would I feel with a dual core? Well, I might feel better having a quad core when the 16 cores come out.

Maybe some odd thinking there but still, what would possess them to change plans like that?

Socket F is the 1207 and thats the server one. Socket M is and always was 940 pins the question was will they skip over DDR2 for DDR3.

A few things, a change in memory controllers was always going to mean a change in socket anyone thinking otherwise wasn't paying attention.

We may see a change from Socket M to a Socket F like socket for DDR3. AMDs lineup is like this.

K8= Opteron
K9= Dual Core
K10= Quad core + other things

When servers move to Socket F they are actually going to prepair for Quad cores in 2007, So in essence giving the server side about a year to prepair for Quad core chips. Socket M is just meant to bring on DDR2. In Late 2007 or early 2008 When Quad cores makes it to desktops is when we will see a switch to a 1200+ Pin setup and will also be perfect timing for a switch to DDR3. So for the next 3-4 years we will see only 2 Changes in Pinout max. Man I wish Intel had that kind of socket longevity.

 

[forumposter32]

I wonder if socket A was the longest running platform.

 

[Topweasel]

Nearly cept maybe Socket 7 Intel tried to kill off but AMD kept it going for almost an extra 2-3 years. Ah the days of the Super Socket 7. Slot 1 survivied for awhile but they kept talking about switching it for awhile. Infact it might even be the longest running Intel used CPU connector in the modern era surviving almost exactly 3yrs.