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What would it take for you to vote for a 3rd party?
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CallMeJoe
Diamond Member
1980, John Anderson (Independent)
1988, Ron Paul (Libertarian)
1992, Andre Marrou (Libertarian)
1996, Harry Browne (Libertarian)
I have the peculiar distinction of having voted in every general election since 1976 without ever having voted for a winning candidate. I have the further distinction of never having voted in a presidential primary for a nominated candidate until this year. Unfortunately, the candidate I supported was selected for the vice presidential nomination on what George Will calls a "kangaroo ticket". I have not yet decided on my general election choice for this year. I have serious doubts about Senator Obama, and cannot support the Republican Barr despite his "Libertarian" disguise. Furthermore, while I supported Senator McCain in his 2000 primary campaign, his subsequent embrace of President Bush and his embrace of the "agents of intolerance" he rightly condemned in that 2000 campaign have soured me on his "maverick" brand. His selection of Governor Palin as his running mate has highlighted his willingness to sell out principle for the presidency.
1988, Ron Paul (Libertarian)
1992, Andre Marrou (Libertarian)
1996, Harry Browne (Libertarian)
I have the peculiar distinction of having voted in every general election since 1976 without ever having voted for a winning candidate. I have the further distinction of never having voted in a presidential primary for a nominated candidate until this year. Unfortunately, the candidate I supported was selected for the vice presidential nomination on what George Will calls a "kangaroo ticket". I have not yet decided on my general election choice for this year. I have serious doubts about Senator Obama, and cannot support the Republican Barr despite his "Libertarian" disguise. Furthermore, while I supported Senator McCain in his 2000 primary campaign, his subsequent embrace of President Bush and his embrace of the "agents of intolerance" he rightly condemned in that 2000 campaign have soured me on his "maverick" brand. His selection of Governor Palin as his running mate has highlighted his willingness to sell out principle for the presidency.
NoStateofMind
Diamond Member
Mark two more down for the "I wanna be a winner" crowd.
NoStateofMind
Diamond Member
You still bring the "I wanna be a winner" tone to the argument. Be willing to lose for the greater good.
I agree 100%
NoStateofMind
Diamond Member
Not IMO. It is justification to vote 3rd party or write someone in. We need Americans to band together in disgust of the current platform.
NoStateofMind
Diamond Member
Yes, how could I be so ignorant. I take it back, we need another George Bush election.
NoStateofMind
Diamond Member
Vote any third party you wish. Or you could be creative and write someone in.
To reject the two major parties, the notion that one or the other of them will win, is to reject reality. To reject reality would be to reject the notion there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans. There are differences and one will always be better than the other. One has no alternative, therefore, unless one is in an alternative reality, to vote for the better of the two, only one of which will win. There is a catch 22 that prevents third parties from having viability. In order to have a chance to win they need votes and only the irresponsible will waste their vote. Third parties, therefore, are doomed to get small numbers. Even Obama couldn't win third party and he may be the only one in generations past or to come that could even have a chance. Jesus wouldn't have a prayer. He would just get crucified by Christians.
Saying we need a worthy 3rd party candidate misses the issue IMO, it's like saying we need a better root beer.
I like root beer, and have opinions I'll use for illustration.
Barq's root beer, IMO, is not very good, but it's a huge seller because it's part of the Coca Cola branding and distribution system. We *have* a better root beer - take for example Virgil's. It's made with quality ingredients, and micro-brewed, and wins taste competitions. But most here have never heard of it, and it's not going to come close to Barq's sales numbers, because it lacks the Coca Cola marketing and distribution.
The issue isn't the 'quality of the candidate', and the candidates don't make up their agendas out of thin air. They choose who to serve.
Some choose principled positions, like Dennis Kucinich. Others compromise more.
The issue is how the corporatocracy has the system set up in a way that to be a 'serious candidate', corporate donations are pretty much needed.
That leaves only the candidates who have accepted that money in the running, and the corpotocracy doesn't care all that much you pick any more than they care whether you pick Barq's, Coke, or Diet Coke to drink, as long as it's one of their beverages.
Only a grass roots movement to change the SYSTEM is going to change this, not finding a 'better candidate'.
Just as most people might prefer another root beer than Barq's in a taste test, but won't pay much attention and just buy Barq's, people are not looking all that hard at the third party candidates and getting too upset that they are so restricted. The only system change IMO that really can change much is tiered voting, with public campaign financing/free air time also part of the improvement.
What, exactly, does a child molestor look like? I understand they look like anyone.
Virgil's > A&W > IBC or Mug > Barq's > Dad's
FWIW, I have dozens of root beers saved up for a taste test some time. Should be fun, if they're still good for 10 years. I even have the near impossible to find Hires.
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
I may just do that this election...not sure at the moment.
I'm definitely NOT voting for McCain/Palin. Of that there is zero doubt.
I'm definitely NOT voting for McCain/Palin. Of that there is zero doubt.
ericlp
Diamond Member
Ummm, even if there was some big shift to a third party vote ... the Electoral College would make sure that the two party system is still in place since, it's not the "peoples" vote, the "EC" decides who the next president will be.
I really think that is the function of the EC. In case we wanted out of the system, the EC would kick in and keep the same BS moving along. Your chances of having a third party take the white house is ZERO.
I really think that is the function of the EC. In case we wanted out of the system, the EC would kick in and keep the same BS moving along. Your chances of having a third party take the white house is ZERO.
A candidate must also pass the media. Dean was killed because he screamed with excitement and it was portrayed as though he were a mad man. We can't have an enthusiastic mad man in office that might break up corporate media consolidated power. The same with Kerry, he was a war hero that was a coward and traitor, and Duffcockes road around in a tank sipping wine. The American people are brainwashed sheep, programmed androids, and imbeciles. I just demonstrated that in a recent thread proving that the folk posting here can't think.
The party you support is a substitute for self love and self respect and to lose party affiliation and see your attachment to it is a protection for the ego would mean ego death. Humanity is deeply ill and can't face that fact. The catch 22 for third parties is a reflection of a much deeper catch 22. Everybody hates himself or herself and doesn't want to know it because everybody is deeply convinced on an emotional and unconscious level that it is absolutely true.
You won't face that so even if a third party arises you will just transfer your ego attachment to it and it will just be more shit.
Humanity will either awaken to its self hate or go extinct. What humanity needs is not some new party but an awakening. The problem is not war or the debt or any other of a million symptoms; the problem is the sickness of self hate that produces it.
"But really Moonbeam, I don't hate myself."
No of course you don't, my emotionally unconscious friend. I couldn't possibly have seen and felt what you don't. My God, somehow in your sick and demented self hating mind you would twist that notion around to be 'I'm implying I'm better'. You can't have that, right? Why if I'm better then really, "You ARE the worst in the world", which, of course, is the exact truth I already know you feel.
The truth protects itself by being exactly that which you MUST, ABSOLUTELY MUST, deny.
The party you support is a substitute for self love and self respect and to lose party affiliation and see your attachment to it is a protection for the ego would mean ego death. Humanity is deeply ill and can't face that fact. The catch 22 for third parties is a reflection of a much deeper catch 22. Everybody hates himself or herself and doesn't want to know it because everybody is deeply convinced on an emotional and unconscious level that it is absolutely true.
You won't face that so even if a third party arises you will just transfer your ego attachment to it and it will just be more shit.
Humanity will either awaken to its self hate or go extinct. What humanity needs is not some new party but an awakening. The problem is not war or the debt or any other of a million symptoms; the problem is the sickness of self hate that produces it.
"But really Moonbeam, I don't hate myself."
No of course you don't, my emotionally unconscious friend. I couldn't possibly have seen and felt what you don't. My God, somehow in your sick and demented self hating mind you would twist that notion around to be 'I'm implying I'm better'. You can't have that, right? Why if I'm better then really, "You ARE the worst in the world", which, of course, is the exact truth I already know you feel.
The truth protects itself by being exactly that which you MUST, ABSOLUTELY MUST, deny.
BeauJangles
Lifer
Yes, new parties can arise, but our system is designed to support two parties. The Whigs / Republicans / Democrats didn't last for long as the Whigs dissolved and became meaningless (in terms of elections).
For a 3rd party to actually exist, we'd need a few fundamental reforms in our electoral system. For instance, the Democrats and Republicans would need to be given control over their party again (no more primaries and other bullshit). Second, we need to remove the winner-take-all system in our elections.
Those two reforms alone would make a 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc parties infinitely more viable.
The old argument goes, proportional representation gave Hitler his soapbox and led to the rise of the Nazis. A two-party system is generally forced to stay very moderate because they have to please many different factions that otherwise would be their own party. Could you imagine the various factions of the Democratic and Republican parties, and what the consequences would be if some of them came to power?
heyheybooboo
Diamond Member
Fixed 😛
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