What would it take for Bush-supporter to switch sides?

[tallest1]

I'm not going to bother reposting recent events that have happened in the past year or so in risk of showing super-bias but I have this honest to god question for the people who support Bush or know people who support do:

What exactly would it take for Bush supporter to not like Bush anymore? What is that core value that apparently hasn't been hit yet? In the past 4 years, America has seen more tragedy, scandals, secrecy, attacks on fundamental rights, half-truths, deaths and discrimination than in the past few decades and yet the polls are still around 50-50. How is this possible and what on earth is that key issue that keeps Bush-supporters so unwaivering?

Edit: typo

Edit: Question #2: What would it take for Kerry-supporters to want to re-elect President Bush?

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: tallest1
I'm not going to bother reposting recent events that have happened in the past year or so in risk of showing super-bias but I have this honest to god question for the people who support Bush or know people who support do:

What exactly would it take for Bush supporter to not like Bush anymore? What is that core value that apparently hasn't been hit yet? In the past 4 years, America has seen more tragedy, scandals, secrecy, attacks on fundamental rights, half-truths, deaths and discrimination than in the past few decades and yet the polls are still around 50-50. How is this possible and what on earth is that key issue that keeps Bush-supporters so unwaivering?

Edit: typo

You apparently don't remember Clinton.

Anyways, Im a republican and I dont like Bush much but there are enough things that I agree with that I will continue to support him. If the democrats put a candidate in the race I could stomach I might consider voting democrat, but I would hardly call it switching sides.

 

[Passions]

Show me how Bush is a coward and a liar, and I'll switch.

 

[maddogchen]

What would it take for Bush-supporter to switch sides?

Put out a better candidate than Kerry is what I've been hearing.

You sound a little scared...

 

[kage69]

Show me how Bush is a coward and a liar, and I'll switch.

:laugh:

 

[Achtung]

Originally posted by: Passions
Show me how Bush is a coward and a liar, and I'll switch.

Which regiment was he a part of in Vietnam again?

Where are the weapons he said Iraq had?

 

[LordMagnusKain]

Originally posted by: Achtung

Originally posted by: Passions
Show me how Bush is a coward and a liar, and I'll switch.

Which regiment was he a part of in Vietnam again?

Where are the weapons he said Iraq had?

How many men died when john Kerry encouraged Americans not to support their troupes in Vietnam?

How much special interest money did john Kerry take after say "I?ve never taken any special interest money"?

Going to collage bush didn't even have to be in the American national guard to not have to go to Vietnam, and john Kerry, bill Clinton, and the rest of the group up on capital hill said Iraq had WMDs. Being mistaken isn't the same as being a liar.

So, once again, how is bush a liar and a coward?

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: Achtung

Originally posted by: Passions
Show me how Bush is a coward and a liar, and I'll switch.

Which regiment was he a part of in Vietnam again?

Where are the weapons he said Iraq had?

So, by your reasoning 99.999% of the people I knwo are cowards.

As for the second one, I have no doubts they were or are still there.

 

[tallest1]

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: tallest1
I'm not going to bother reposting recent events that have happened in the past year or so in risk of showing super-bias but I have this honest to god question for the people who support Bush or know people who support do:

What exactly would it take for Bush supporter to not like Bush anymore? What is that core value that apparently hasn't been hit yet? In the past 4 years, America has seen more tragedy, scandals, secrecy, attacks on fundamental rights, half-truths, deaths and discrimination than in the past few decades and yet the polls are still around 50-50. How is this possible and what on earth is that key issue that keeps Bush-supporters so unwaivering?

Edit: typo

You apparently don't remember Clinton.

Anyways, Im a republican and I dont like Bush much but there are enough things that I agree with that I will continue to support him. If the democrats put a candidate in the race I could stomach I might consider voting democrat, but I would hardly call it switching sides.

I suppose you have a point. I never quite wondered why Clinton's poll numbers were similarly close despite (arguably) peace and prosperity but I'm sure it wouldn't have been close if it weren't for the blowjob thing. I'm going a bit OT here but if Bush got a blowjob from an intern, would you still vote for him?

Originally posted by: Passions
Show me how Bush is a coward and a liar, and I'll switch.

Bush certainly isn't a coward (unless you count saying 'Bring it on?' and then mourning when they actually do) but should we really be running around the dictionary defining what a lie is? We know what 'is' is but do we need to go into the difference between immediate and imminent, weapons of mass destruction and weapon of mass destruction related programs? I'm sorry but we're not going to see a "The sky is red, no wait its green!" from any politician. The point of lying is deception and if you truly think we'd have invaded Iraq when we did simply because Sadaam was a bad, bad man, you're fooling yourself. Sorry

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Passions
Show me how Bush is a coward and a liar, and I'll switch.

No one said he is a coward, he is a Fearless Liar.

 

[Achtung]

Originally posted by: nutxo

So, by your reasoning 99.999% of the people I knwo are cowards.

So what exactly was he doing then? Was he contributing anything to society in exchange for not being sent to a foreign land to fight?

 

[tallest1]

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

Originally posted by: Achtung

Originally posted by: Passions
Show me how Bush is a coward and a liar, and I'll switch.

Which regiment was he a part of in Vietnam again?

Where are the weapons he said Iraq had?

How many men died when john Kerry encouraged Americans not to support their troupes in Vietnam?

How much special interest money did john Kerry take after say "I?ve never taken any special interest money"?

Going to collage bush didn't even have to be in the American national guard to not have to go to Vietnam, and john Kerry, bill Clinton, and the rest of the group up on capital hill said Iraq had WMDs. Being mistaken isn't the same as being a liar.

So, once again, how is bush a liar and a coward?

How many troups would have died if we were to deny the facts and blindly send more troops into Vietnam? Much more I assure you. (By the way, "Not supporting the war" does not equal "Not supporting the troops". Nice try)

And while we've had a good number of draft dodgers, and they all suck equally, I'd rather someone go to Europe to avoid the process than have someone sign up for it (wasting US resources) and using his father's political power to slither right back out with merely experience in flying a plane that was never going to be used in Vietnam.

As for the liar and coward thing, see my above post. I'm not going to bother flipping through an Oxford thesaurus with you.

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: Achtung

Originally posted by: nutxo

So, by your reasoning 99.999% of the people I knwo are cowards.

So what exactly was he doing then? Was he contributing anything to society in exchange for not being sent to a foreign land to fight?

I have no absolute proof of what he was doing, do you? Why arent you in iraq? How are you contributing to society in exchange for not being sent to a foreign land to fight?

 

[Achtung]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Passions
Show me how Bush is a coward and a liar, and I'll switch.

No one said he is a coward, he is a Fearless Liar.

Well, in truth, I'd be fearless too if my daddy had billions of dollars and gave me a Texas ranch at which I could spend my monthlong vacations.

 

[Achtung]

Originally posted by: nutxo
I have no absolute proof of what he was doing, do you? Why arent you in iraq? How are you contributing to society in exchange for not being sent to a foreign land to fight?

It's called a job. I have a job in the telecom industry which is part of a system that generates billions of dollars for the economy and ultimately helps fund the war. The company I happen to work for also develops and provides plenty of communications equipment to our troops in Iraq, which is a better way for me to spend my talents than to engage in field combat. What sort of job did George Bush have back then, I wonder?

 

[beyoku]

just as i suspected. I bet NOBODY will answer your real question, which is a good one for that matter. This thread could go on for 100's of post before we get a real answer.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: tallest1
I'm not going to bother reposting recent events that have happened in the past year or so in risk of showing super-bias but I have this honest to god question for the people who support Bush or know people who support do:

What exactly would it take for Bush supporter to not like Bush anymore? What is that core value that apparently hasn't been hit yet? In the past 4 years, America has seen more tragedy, scandals, secrecy, attacks on fundamental rights, half-truths, deaths and discrimination than in the past few decades and yet the polls are still around 50-50. How is this possible and what on earth is that key issue that keeps Bush-supporters so unwaivering?

Edit: typo

You apparently don't remember Clinton.

Anyways, Im a republican and I dont like Bush much but there are enough things that I agree with that I will continue to support him. If the democrats put a candidate in the race I could stomach I might consider voting democrat, but I would hardly call it switching sides.

Why not put a Republican in the race that everyone can stomach?

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: beyoku
just as i suspected. I bet NOBODY will answer your real question, which is a good one for that matter. This thread could go on for 100's of post before we get a real answer.

There were actually 3 questions. I thought I did answer it. I would vote for a democrat (not a liberal) if I thought he were actually better than bush and had more of the the same ideals in common with me than bush has.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

tallest1 I respect the way you approached this issue. I was fully expecting a flame fest by the looks of the thread titled, but you seem to have this debate under control for now.

Regardless of your partisanship, tallest1 is asking some very good questions here. Makes you really think about what you believe in, and why you support whoever it is you support.

I think too often in politics we get stuck arguing over incredibly silly, and assanine things. To be honest, I don't care if Bush dodged the draft, I would have done the same thing. The last thing I want to do is go out and fight a war I don't believe in. I think we should start arguing over things that matter, like policies and what the presidential candidates actually plan on doing if they were to win. Let's look towards the future, instead of constantly dwelling on past issues.

I mean people can and do change with time, and one person's actions many years ago doesn't have much of a bearing on who that person is nowadays. Take a reformed prison inmate for example. He committs murder, spends 20-30 years in prison and realizes his mistakes and devotes the rest of his life to reforming himself and helping others in situations like his. I think that after going through tough times, it makes a person that much stronger.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

Originally posted by: Achtung

Originally posted by: Passions
Show me how Bush is a coward and a liar, and I'll switch.

Which regiment was he a part of in Vietnam again?

Where are the weapons he said Iraq had?

How many men died when john Kerry encouraged Americans not to support their troupes in Vietnam?

How much special interest money did john Kerry take after say "I?ve never taken any special interest money"?

Going to collage bush didn't even have to be in the American national guard to not have to go to Vietnam, and john Kerry, bill Clinton, and the rest of the group up on capital hill said Iraq had WMDs. Being mistaken isn't the same as being a liar.

So, once again, how is bush a liar and a coward?

Nobody died because Kerry encouraged Americans not to support the war in Vietnam. In fact, many more are likely alive because of it. Vietnam was a lost cause long before the US got involved.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: beyoku
just as i suspected. I bet NOBODY will answer your real question, which is a good one for that matter. This thread could go on for 100's of post before we get a real answer.

There were actually 3 questions. I thought I did answer it. I would vote for a democrat (not a liberal) if I thought he were actually better than bush and had more of the the same ideals in common with me than bush has.

So you're afraid of a "tax & spend" liberal being President, but a "spend & don't tax so generations to come will get hit even harder than they should have to" consevative is ok?

Honestly, let's look at Bush's record and reassess the whole idea of who is the liberal. I can think of one thing that Bush has a stance on that is conservative: his stance on gays.

 

[Vexxx]

Achtung, you took the words right out of my mouth bro. :beer:

 

[tallest1]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
tallest1 I respect the way you approached this issue. I was fully expecting a flame fest by the looks of the thread titled, but you seem to have this debate under control for now.

Regardless of your partisanship, tallest1 is asking some very good questions here. Makes you really think about what you believe in, and why you support whoever it is you support.

I think too often in politics we get stuck arguing over incredibly silly, and assanine things. To be honest, I don't care if Bush dodged the draft, I would have done the same thing. The last thing I want to do is go out and fight a war I don't believe in. I think we should start arguing over things that matter, like policies and what the presidential candidates actually plan on doing if they were to win. Let's look towards the future, instead of constantly dwelling on past issues.

I mean people can and do change with time, and one person's actions many years ago doesn't have much of a bearing on who that person is nowadays. Take a reformed prison inmate for example. He committs murder, spends 20-30 years in prison and realizes his mistakes and devotes the rest of his life to reforming himself and helping others in situations like his. I think that after going through tough times, it makes a person that much stronger.

Thanks for the complement. Though, my attempts at being unbiased and avoiding flamewars (Example: Bush-supporters get touchy when you use the word 'lie' anywhere) cause the threads I create to drop faster than most

EDIT

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: beyoku
just as i suspected. I bet NOBODY will answer your real question, which is a good one for that matter. This thread could go on for 100's of post before we get a real answer.

There were actually 3 questions. I thought I did answer it. I would vote for a democrat (not a liberal) if I thought he were actually better than bush and had more of the the same ideals in common with me than bush has.

While it'd be nice to know the weight of some of the ideals you share with Bush, an answer is an answer. Thanks

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: beyoku
just as i suspected. I bet NOBODY will answer your real question, which is a good one for that matter. This thread could go on for 100's of post before we get a real answer.

There were actually 3 questions. I thought I did answer it. I would vote for a democrat (not a liberal) if I thought he were actually better than bush and had more of the the same ideals in common with me than bush has.

So you're afraid of a "tax & spend" liberal being President, but a "spend & don't tax so generations to come will get hit even harder than they should have to" consevative is ok?

Honestly, let's look at Bush's record and reassess the whole idea of who is the liberal. I can think of one thing that Bush has a stance on that is conservative: his stance on gays.

Abortion.

 

[KK]

If it were edwards instead of kerry running, I would think seriously about voting for him. Kerry seems to be too wishy-washy. Bush would have to do something that I believe was a flat out lie, and he knew about it. At this point I trust Bush alot more than I could trust Kerry.


KK