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What WOULD happen to our purchases if Steam goes bankrupt?

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Feb 4, 2009
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Well let's say that in 10 years internet will have become good enough for stadia and other similar platforms to work and be more convenient for people and steam closes down because it's not lucrative anymore...
If someone swoops in to buy steam it won't be to keep it working but to split it up and make as much money as possible.
Sure but that’s sort of like saying let’s say Microsoft is ordered to split up and you needed to buy legacy versions of windows to play games.
Sure it could happen because anything can happen.
As I said earlier, over a 10 year period I would lose nearly all my game keys.
 

Stg-Flame

Platinum Member
Mar 10, 2007
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Well let's say that in 10 years internet will have become good enough for stadia and other similar platforms
I find it hilarious you think Stadia is going to even be remembered by the end of the year, let alone ten years from now. That being said, in ten years, Steam will be right where it has been for the last two decades. The only difference will be if Gaben dies and someone takes control of the company. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm fairly certain when new terms and conditions are rendered for a product already in-use, they are required to send out those terms to all the customers (us). Until that time, Steam won't be just shutting down for no reason and it sure as hell won't be going out of business.
 

TheELF

Platinum Member
Dec 22, 2012
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I find it hilarious you think Stadia is going to even be remembered by the end of the year, let alone ten years from now.
Stadia doesn't have to be remembered.
My argument is that in 10 years the infrastructure for something like that to succeed will be there.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
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I don't know about Microsoft buying Valve would be a good thing for us. Don't they already have a game store? Will they support Linux Gaming?
I'd be more worried about Google buying Steam than Microsoft, honestly. Microsoft already has a profitable gaming division, while Google is struggling to get into the arena with Stadia. Facebook is worrisome as well, as their big VR play isn't panning out and they might want to buy into a more traditional gaming platform to snag more user data.

As Google has a bad habit of shutting down entire divisions of their company with little warning (Google+ comes to mind) that are not super profitable, that merger could be a disaster for us with big Steam libraries.
 

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
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I think the bigger question is what will happen when Gabe no longer runs Steam.
-
As for Stadia - it has a big hurdle to overcome with latency. I guess for multiplayer games it might actually workout ok but for platformers and single player fps - i'm not sure it will ever be satisfactory without major compromise.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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I think the bigger question is what will happen when Gabe no longer runs Steam.
Agreed, this is the question to ask.
I do not believe it will result in us all losing our games because steam just closed shop.
I do know not many people can run a place with no titles, minimal management, minimal rules and very general expectations of employee.
I assume there would be large volumes of employees lost. Not sure how that would impact things since Valve appears to have lost interest in making games.
 

GodisanAtheist

Golden Member
Nov 16, 2006
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To OP:

You'd lose your games.

Sure, Valve could open up every game to download, but imagine those dying Valve servers some venture capital company is going to sell for scrap trying to keep up with demand from ~90 million people trying to download 1000's of games at once. Never mind people hitting their bandwidth caps/etc. thanks to the cartels we call service providers here in the states.

Always a good reason to play though your backlog when you have the chance.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
21,469
615
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To OP:

You'd lose your games.

Sure, Valve could open up every game to download, but imagine those dying Valve servers some venture capital company is going to sell for scrap trying to keep up with demand from ~90 million people trying to download 1000's of games at once. Never mind people hitting their bandwidth caps/etc. thanks to the cartels we call service providers here in the states.

Always a good reason to play though your backlog when you have the chance.
I would hope that Valve would release patches for most of their games that offers offline installers and disables the steam DRM before they closed their doors. I'd imagine that many developers for third-party titles would not follow suit, but at least we'd have some of the Steam classics like Portal and the Half Life series.

Better yet... hope that Valve open sources ALL of their titles before they close. You want Half Life 2 Episode 3? Download the source code and the artwork and you and developer buddies can build your own :) Bonus points if you can borrow come code from the old Steam framework to keep it patched!
 

GodisanAtheist

Golden Member
Nov 16, 2006
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I would hope that Valve would release patches for most of their games that offers offline installers and disables the steam DRM before they closed their doors. I'd imagine that many developers for third-party titles would not follow suit, but at least we'd have some of the Steam classics like Portal and the Half Life series.

Better yet... hope that Valve open sources ALL of their titles before they close. You want Half Life 2 Episode 3? Download the source code and the artwork and you and developer buddies can build your own :) Bonus points if you can borrow come code from the old Steam framework to keep it patched!
- Even after removing the steam DRM you still have to actually *download* your games. It would be like going back to Steam circa the release of the Orange box, but much, much worse.

Same with any streaming service really.

Its what the Zink (?) guy that shows up here and rails against the end of the ownership society is talking about.
 

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
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It might be a fantastic and very long game but that has nothing to do with whether it is a 'pet project'. Steam has been pushing VR and that suggest it was a pet project. Having said that I vaguely remember an announcement that Valve was opening several studios for game development and as such there are several substantial games under development. I might be mistaken but i'm fairly sure it was valve and the announcement was early/mid 2019.

It's not an episode or a pet project. It's a full blown game "about the same length as Half-Life 2".
 
Feb 4, 2009
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It's not an episode or a pet project. It's a full blown game "about the same length as Half-Life 2".
It might be a fantastic and very long game but that has nothing to do with whether it is a 'pet project'. Steam has been pushing VR and that suggest it was a pet project. Having said that I vaguely remember an announcement that Valve was opening several studios for game development and as such there are several substantial games under development. I might be mistaken but i'm fairly sure it was valve and the announcement was early/mid 2019.
We will see
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,060
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To OP:

You'd lose your games.

Sure, Valve could open up every game to download, but imagine those dying Valve servers some venture capital company is going to sell for scrap trying to keep up with demand from ~90 million people trying to download 1000's of games at once. Never mind people hitting their bandwidth caps/etc. thanks to the cartels we call service providers here in the states.

Always a good reason to play though your backlog when you have the chance.
In the most dire case of Gabe dying and the service going 'dark', I'd have to imagine that one of his engineers at least has an end-point Steam patch (they have the source code after all), which would answer the DRM call from any installed Steam games.

Getting downloads of any games you didn't already have installed would be a fair bit trickier of course.

However, Steam is so damned valuable, and basically just prints money from doing nearly nothing, that I think it would be nearly insanity for any purchaser to mess with their formula : exist, make 30% of everything for existence (and a modicum of services). Their margins must look totally ludicrous.
 

GodisanAtheist

Golden Member
Nov 16, 2006
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In the most dire case of Gabe dying and the service going 'dark', I'd have to imagine that one of his engineers at least has an end-point Steam patch (they have the source code after all), which would answer the DRM call from any installed Steam games.

Getting downloads of any games you didn't already have installed would be a fair bit trickier of course.

However, Steam is so damned valuable, and basically just prints money from doing nearly nothing, that I think it would be nearly insanity for any purchaser to mess with their formula : exist, make 30% of everything for existence (and a modicum of services). Their margins must look totally ludicrous.
-Agreed, I don't see steam folding in the foreseeable future, even with competitive pressure from places like Epic. Being the market leader in their segment gives them a rabidly loyal, built in customer base that others can nibble at but never fully pull away.

I'm never going to end up with a 200+ title library in any other distribution service, and I'm a relative lightweight in the grand scheme of steam users.

That said, if the Apocalypse/Ragnarok/Frashokereti whatever happens and it all goes belly up then you can effectively kiss your games goodbye.

I even question patching steam DRM out of the games, as that opens the door to rampant piracy which Steam was so central to (largely) shutting.
 
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Stg-Flame

Platinum Member
Mar 10, 2007
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Feels like this discussion keeps going in circles. We've already addressed the initial question and moved onto something else, then someone comes in and replies to the original post, and everyone starts parroting the same thing we've said two pages ago which then leads into the same discussion we had one page ago.
 
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BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
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1.that's the requirements for the physical version
And? The physical version doesn't use Steam. I'm buying the Steam version, not the CD version.

2.that info is not provided by steam but by the devs
And yet GOG has Windows 7 as a requirement for the same game: https://www.gog.com/game/star_wars_jedi_knight_jedi_academy

I wonder why the "devs" gave out different requirements for the same game?

Hmmm, nah, couldn't possibly be that Steam screwed up and doesn't properly curate its library. Instead it's the user's "fault" for not guessing Steam doesn't run on its own listed specs. :rolleyes:

3.If you buy a product that runs on another product then the requirements for the former are completely irrelevant,since you have to run the latter.

Yeah, that's the whole point, namely the latter makes the former unusable, such as in the case of deploying Steam games on XP/Vista/7 which were working prior, meet the listed requirements, but now fail because of Steam.

Steam DRM caused this, not the game or the user, so Steam should be fixing it.

Be my guest and go sue disney for fraud and false advertising,let's see how that goes.
You spend an awful lot of time defending these companies. Why is that exactly? Nobody is asking you to invest any time or money on their behalf, so why do you care what people say about them?
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
21,538
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I even question patching steam DRM out of the games, as that opens the door to rampant piracy which Steam was so central to (largely) shutting.
There's no Steam kill-switch no matter how badly people want it. If there was it would've already been used on XP/Vista/7.

In fact in the history of commercial software, I can't think of a single instance where a company who became bankrupt or was purchased released a free update in their death throes which removed restriction from their software. That sort of thing just doesn't happen.

What would actually happen is a handful of vendors might patch their games individually, but most would do nothing or move platforms to sell new versions. The rest would need to be cracked. This is exactly what happened with GFWL and Securom.
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
14,032
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That's not how it works. Steam still connects even when set offline and won't run if it or the game is out of date.
GabeN has repeatedly said that if Steam is to go offline permanently, they'll strip DRM on everything you've bought and give you time to download a DRM-free version of the game. I'm thinking the big issue will be low download speeds since people will slam their content servers before doomsday (barring use of torrents). If you don't believe him then fine, but don't act like you know better. Because you don't.

This is a fantasy. We've already seen this where XP/Vista users are locked out of their games because Steam no longer supports those platforms.
If Microsoft won't support them, than neither will anyone else.

"Oh well you should just upgrade" is an invalid statement.
Tell that to MS. Valve isn't responsible for MS refusing to support their old operating systems. You're better off using Win10 + a VM to run your oldwarez. Though I strongly prefer GoG for games that old, when possible. Valve just doesn't make it easy.

If a currently working game has a minimum requirement of XP, why should should XP/Vista/7 users be forced to upgrade?
Because MS says so. What do you expect when you're dependent on a closed-source OS from a company that won't give you true lifetime support?

If the mythical kill switch existed we'd have already seen it in action.
No you wouldn't. Why is Steam going to strip DRM on titles owned by XP/Vista owners but leave it in place for people running Win10? That's ridiculous.

And how exactly do you think a bankrupt company will continue to supply cloud services for hosting tens of thousands of games for millions of user? Where will the funding come from?
They won't. They'll switch to a torrent system and give people some warning to get plenty of seeds started up. It would actually work.

Look, GoG has a better overall service, and we'd be better off if we moved all our business there. Steam charges too high a fee to publish on their store, and their DRM is a pita compared to no DRM (GoG). Their DRM is better than crap like SecuROM or Denuvo which slows down games and causes crashes. There's good and bad to Steam. Don't pretend you know more than what anyone else does, though . . . and why you want to blame Valve for Microsoft's crappy business practices is anyone's guess.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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GabeN has repeatedly said that if Steam is to go offline permanently, they'll strip DRM on everything you've bought and give you time to download a DRM-free version of the game. I'm thinking the big issue will be low download speeds since people will slam their content servers before doomsday (barring use of torrents). If you don't believe him then fine, but don't act like you know better. Because you don't.



If Microsoft won't support them, than neither will anyone else.



Tell that to MS. Valve isn't responsible for MS refusing to support their old operating systems. You're better off using Win10 + a VM to run your oldwarez. Though I strongly prefer GoG for games that old, when possible. Valve just doesn't make it easy.



Because MS says so. What do you expect when you're dependent on a closed-source OS from a company that won't give you true lifetime support?



No you wouldn't. Why is Steam going to strip DRM on titles owned by XP/Vista owners but leave it in place for people running Win10? That's ridiculous.



They won't. They'll switch to a torrent system and give people some warning to get plenty of seeds started up. It would actually work.

Look, GoG has a better overall service, and we'd be better off if we moved all our business there. Steam charges too high a fee to publish on their store, and their DRM is a pita compared to no DRM (GoG). Their DRM is better than crap like SecuROM or Denuvo which slows down games and causes crashes. There's good and bad to Steam. Don't pretend you know more than what anyone else does, though . . . and why you want to blame Valve for Microsoft's crappy business practices is anyone's guess.
I regards to what Gabe said years ago we are making the assumption the same statement applies to modern day steam and Gabe wasn’t specifically speaking about valve games.
I would assume there are licensing agreements with steam to keep some kind of drm going in let’s say games from Ubisoft or the few EA games left on steam. While we could also say in this nightmare scenario steam would be broke and closing shop therefore a legal threat could be meaningless.
These are just interesting things to speculate about. No market leader in any business that has around 4 billion in value is just going dark for no reason.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
14,032
3,221
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I regards to what Gabe said years ago we are making the assumption the same statement applies to modern day steam and Gabe wasn’t specifically speaking about valve games.
I would assume there are licensing agreements with steam to keep some kind of drm going in let’s say games from Ubisoft or the few EA games left on steam. While we could also say in this nightmare scenario steam would be broke and closing shop therefore a legal threat could be meaningless.
These are just interesting things to speculate about. No market leader in any business that has around 4 billion in value is just going dark for no reason.
I would assume that GabeN's statements don't pertain to the products using Denuvo (for example). Anything using Steamworks, though? Might be fair game. I'm sure some publisher's lawyers could comment on the terms agreed to between Steam and said publisher before applying Steamworks to any title; there might be weasle-language in there somewhere permitting Valve to remove DRM from the title under certain circumstances.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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I would assume that GabeN's statements don't pertain to the products using Denuvo (for example). Anything using Steamworks, though? Might be fair game. I'm sure some publisher's lawyers could comment on the terms agreed to between Steam and said publisher before applying Steamworks to any title; there might be weasle-language in there somewhere permitting Valve to remove DRM from the title under certain circumstances.
Yeah sort of agree. What I was saying is Gabe made the comment shortly after steam began and if memory serves me correctly it was only valve games at the time or valve and a few other games. My memory of that time is vague.
Basically what Gabe said 10+ years ago May no longer apply with today’s steam.

This is really a simple matter we all know there is a chance steam could change or be sold and become a different place, yet the majority of us still chose steam for the convenience or simplicity or sale prices.
As I said earlier if someone wants to keep a game key file & back up the cd/dvds or whatever all the power to them. That is not a solution or something I want to deal with.
For what I need steam exceeds *MY* expectations.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
21,538
411
126
GabeN has repeatedly said that if Steam is to go offline permanently, they'll strip DRM on everything you've bought and give you time to download a DRM-free version of the game. I'm thinking the big issue will be low download speeds since people will slam their content servers before doomsday (barring use of torrents). If you don't believe him then fine, but don't act like you know better. Because you don't.
GabeN also told us DRM is bad.
GabeN also told us store exclusives are bad.

Yet every single Valve game is a Steam exclusive with Steam DRM. So far GabeN's actions are the complete opposite of his statements.

Likewise there isn't a single example of a software distribution house going out of business and releasing updates post-death to remove restrictions from said software.

So exactly what evidence do you have, other than "GabeN said so"?

If Microsoft won't support them, than neither will anyone else.
Except Microsoft isn't stopping me from running my games, Steam is.

Tell that to MS. Valve isn't responsible for MS refusing to support their old operating systems. You're better off using Win10 + a VM to run your oldwarez. Though I strongly prefer GoG for games that old, when possible. Valve just doesn't make it easy.
Except Microsoft isn't stopping me from running my games, Steam is.

And how exactly would I run Steam in a VM running a Steam-unsupported OS? Show us.

Because MS says so. What do you expect when you're dependent on a closed-source OS from a company that won't give you true lifetime support?
Except Microsoft isn't stopping me from running my games, Steam is. There seems to be extreme confusion, so let me clear it up for you:

Microsoft not supporting an OS doesn't stop anyone running it.
Valve not supporting Steam stops people from running it, and blocks their Steam DRM'd games.

Imagine DOS also had Steam once. Would you also blame Microsoft if DOSBox can no longer run Steam games? What utter lunacy.

No you wouldn't. Why is Steam going to strip DRM on titles owned by XP/Vista owners but leave it in place for people running Win10? That's ridiculous.
Because Microsoft isn't stopping me from running my games, Steam is.

Steam is also selling games with minimum requirements on their store page Valve themselves don't support. Microsoft isn't selling XP and telling me those games will still run. It's Valve doing that.

They won't. They'll switch to a torrent system and give people some warning to get plenty of seeds started up. It would actually work.
Show us your Valve insider information to back that up, O wise one. Even GabeN never said anything about a torrent system.

Don't pretend you know more than what anyone else does, though . . . and why you want to blame Valve for Microsoft's crappy business practices is anyone's guess.
You're the one pretending. "GabeN promised a torrent system when he goes out of business!", LMAO.

Still waiting for evidence about these magical torrents that will arrive when Valve dies.

Also show us a single example of a software distribution company who was purchased / went out of business that removed all restrictions from their software retroactively.

Thanks.
 
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Stg-Flame

Platinum Member
Mar 10, 2007
2,610
177
106
GabeN also told us DRM is bad.
GabeN also told us store exclusives are bad.

Yet every single Valve game is a Steam exclusive with Steam DRM. So far GabeN's actions are the complete opposite of his statements.
While I don't recall him ever saying this, especially considering he started Steam/Valve based on exclusives, those are just his opinions.

Likewise there isn't a single example of a software distribution house going out of business and releasing updates post-death to remove restrictions from said software.
Has there ever been a digital distributor that went out of business? Correct me if I'm wrong, but all of the digital distributors I've ever heard of are still in business.

You're the one pretending. "GabeN promised a torrent system when he goes out of business!", LMAO.

Still waiting for evidence about these magical torrents that will arrive when Valve dies.
I honestly don't understand why you have such hatred and distrust for Steam. Besides, arguing about this (and getting upset) is pointless considering Steam is likely to outlive all of us.
 

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