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What would happen in this situation?

D

Dari

Lifer
Say you have an airplane flying. Suddenly, a much larger aircraft swallows the airplane from above.
1 What will happen to the airplane vis-a-vis the larger aircraft?
2 So long as the cargo bays are open will the airplane continue to fly normally?
3 Will it start to lose its balance for lack of air under or over the wings?
4 What will happen when the cargo bays are closed completely?
5 What will happen if the cargo bays are closed but the larger aircraft has a mechanism that preserves and mimics the airflow before it swallowed the airplane?
 
Dari said:
Say you have an airplane flying. Suddenly, a much larger aircraft swallows the airplane from above.
1 What will happen to the airplane vis-a-vis the larger aircraft?
2 So long as the cargo bays are open will the airplane continue to fly normally?
3 Will it start to lose its balance for lack of air under or over the wings?
4 What will happen when the cargo bays are closed completely?
5 What will happen if the cargo bays are closed but the larger aircraft has a mechanism that preserves and mimics the airflow before it swallowed the airplane?
Click to expand...
Don't argue with the DM.
 
1 Go read about how airplanes work
2 Use common sense from there
3 If a fly is on an airplane and flys from the back to the front, is he really flying at 600mph?
 
mythbusters did this with a truck
but maybe it was flying birds in a truck, i'll have to check
 
Rastus said:
Everything will be alright if there is a conveyer belt inside the larger aircraft.
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I wonder if a plane could take off from a treadmill (or conveyer belt)... if it did in this case, there would be no airflow over the wings.
 
As long as there is air mass in the cargo bay, the smaller plane should move forward until it hits the front of the cargo bay.

The only things that slow a plane are air drag and gravity. The larger plane would be reducing the air drag dramatically.

That's how I see it anyway.
 
1 What will happen to the airplane vis-a-vis the larger aircraft?
2 So long as the cargo bays are open will the airplane continue to fly normally?
3 Will it start to lose its balance for lack of air under or over the wings?
4 What will happen when the cargo bays are closed completely?
5 What will happen if the cargo bays are closed but the larger aircraft has a mechanism that preserves and mimics the airflow before it swallowed the airplane?
Click to expand...
1. As the larger aircraft with its open cargo bay (really a bomb bay) approaches from above, nothing at all will happen until the larger plane either moves down, or the smaller plane moves up - and the forward bulkhead in the larger plane actually blocks airflow across the wing of the smaller airplane. This will happen with increasing turbulence, linearly, and once completely blocked, the smaller plan will begin to fall with acceleration due to gravity at that rate. If the larger plane is quick, and if it begins a slow dive when the process is attempted, it may close its bomb bay and capture the smaller plane.

2. When the bomb bay begins to interrupt the flow of air the smaller plane will experience turbulence, then will cease to generate lift, and will appear to fall as if you fired a ball straight out from a tennis machine - in an arc towards the ground as its thrust still exists but its lift is gone.

3. Yes. As air doesn't move in straight lines at flight speed when encountering surfaces - it is quite likely to experience severe turbulence.

4. airspeeds being similar and loss of momentum due to turbulence discounted - the smaller plane will need to immediately idle its motors. If this doesn't occur, than since the airspeeds are essentially equal and now that the only limiting factor to your airspeed (drag) is gone - your smaller plane will rocket forward at the rate prescribed by its motors. In the bomb bay the smaller plane effectively starts at 0. Now if you kill the motors and survive this risky maneuver - the plane settles gently inside the larger plane.
a. If you are the only vehicle aboard the Amtrak "Autotrain" - say you have a Geo. And also pretend that the autotrain is a single car - hundreds of feet long just to give you enough room. When the Autotrain is at 70mph traveling from Florida to DC, and your Geo is idle in the back of the car, your Geo is traveling 70mph. It gained this energy from the locomotives engines. Now if you start your Geo and floor it - in the 200 feet or so of train that you can traverse - if you also get to indicated 70mph, your Geo is now effectively traveling at 140mph.

Now since an airplane motor doesn't use it's wheels to propel itself, it either uses a propeller, which sucks in air and blows it back behind it, or a jet engine, which uses combustion to generate thrust that is fired behind it (and of course airflow other than engine inlet air doesn't matter), with the motors on the acceleration it experiences as it moves forward as it lands inside the motor is a function of drag and weight vs thrust.

5 would make things easier for the pilots involved as the turbulence factor would be reduced. It would be more complicated to get the smaller plane to stop as you would need to reduce motor output vs airflow generated through this magical mechanism.
 
Think about driving down the road with your hand out the window in the shape of a plane.
When it is outside, the air is pushing it back and you have to hold your hand real stiff and pressing forward to keep it steady.
If you suddenly brought your hand inside the cabin, your hand would move forward.
Your muscles pushing your hand forward lightly is just like an airplane engine.
Once the immense drag is gone, the plane would move forward.

It is already in motion and will stay in motion relative to Earth. It will need to keep its engines on to remain suspended in the air in the cargo bay.
It will also move forward in the cargo bay until it hits the front of it and explodes.
 
It is already in motion and will stay in motion relative to Earth. It will need to keep its engines on to remain suspended in the air in the cargo bay.
It will also move forward in the cargo bay until it hits the front of it and explodes.
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Slightly incorrect. It will need *airflow over its lift-generating wings* to remain suspended in the air. Take that away and the airplane falls. Continue generating lift with the magic mechanism and it will stay suspended. The motors are not what keeps the plane suspended, and also in the case of no magic airflow box (static air in the cargo bay) the plane will essentially "start over" as the drag is gone and can continue accelerating towards its new top speed.
 
bobdole369 said:
...
5 would make things easier for the pilots involved as the turbulence factor would be reduced. It would be more complicated to get the smaller plane to stop as you would need to reduce motor output vs airflow generated through this magical mechanism.
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Thanks for your input. As for your answer to question 5, so long as there is an environment similar to what it was experiencing before, there would be no change in the relationship between the aircraft and airplane, even though the larger aircraft completely encompasses the airplane?
 
Dari said:
Thanks for your input. As for your answer to question 5, so long as there is an environment similar to what it was experiencing before, there would be no change in the relationship between the aircraft and airplane, even though the larger aircraft completely encompasses the airplane?
Click to expand...

Wind Tunnels exist.
 
Dari said:
So? In a wind tunnel, the object is usually stationary while airflow moves around it. Or am I mistaken?
Click to expand...

Wind Tunnels that can make specific conditions exist.

If your proposition claims that you can make the exact same conditions around a plane that it would see in normal flight, nothing else matters. Why the hell would the plane care that it was essentially in a wind tunnel, all that matters is the properties of the air flowing across it.
 
NikolaeVarius said:
Wind Tunnels that can make specific conditions exist.

If your proposition claims that you can make the exact same conditions around a plane that it would see in normal flight, nothing else matters. Why the hell would the plane care that it was essentially in a wind tunnel, all that matters is the properties of the air flowing across it.
Click to expand...

I never said same exact conditions. I only said if it preserves and maintains airflow. The airflow is very important but gravity or other factors would not matter?
 
Dari said:
I never said same exact conditions. I only said if it preserves and maintains airflow. The airflow is very important but gravity or other factors would not matter?
Click to expand...

airflow generates lift, which counteracts gravity. This is the most important concept to grasp. You can have a billion pounds of thrust at your back but you'll still fall to the earth without lift due to airflow over the wings.
 
bobdole369 said:
airflow generates lift, which counteracts gravity. This is the most important concept to grasp. You can have a billion pounds of thrust at your back but you'll still fall to the earth without lift due to airflow over the wings.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. With a light enough payload, you might be able to reach escape velocity with that much thrust.
 
DesiPower said:
I think the smaller airplane will gain speed suddenly and crash
Click to expand...

It would, but I think the turbulence it experienced between normal flight and the turbulent air in the bomb bay (for lack of a better word) would likely cause both planes to either collide or cause one or both some major turbulence before the smaller plane accelerated much. When military pilots do inflight refueling it's tricky because they're entering the turbulent air caused by the refueler they're flying behind.

Ever see an airplane land in a really strong headwind? Especially smaller planes (Cessna's etc) they can literally be moving at like 10mph ground speed when they hit the ground. Flight is all about air speed, ground speed is irrelevant other than how fast you get to your destination. Which is to say, if you fly with a really strong tail wind you're going to cover more ground at the same speed than without the tailwind, which is why a lot of international flights will take what look like odd routes but it's to fly with the jetstream - it's faster and more efficient travel.
 
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