What will the Higgs Boson mean for humanity?

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: guyver01
welcome to 2008.

😉

LHC will probably never see the light of day unfortunately.

it'll see the light of day alright. it'll see it and gobble every last bit of it up as it devours mankind, in 2012 when it finally becomes operational. 😛
😀

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Yeah, congress is full of people that have no idea what science needs to find in order for us to advance. I always thought we should be governed by the smartest people, not the best speakers. Never works out like that.

it was really that we were in a recession and a democratic president and governor didn't want to continue a republican project.

heh, back then the dems were anti-science and the republicans were all for it :laugh:

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
Anyone mind providing cliffs for this whole thread?

The standard model of the universe can not explain gravity or mass adequately. A theoretical particle called the Higgs Boson is supposed to explain why there is mass. If we can find it, we can pretty much prove that the universe runs by the standard model.

If it is not found, we were wrong about our views of the universe the whole time.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
Anyone mind providing cliffs for this whole thread?

• OP questions whether the discovery of the Higgs boson would provide real world benefits, and what the discovery would mean in the context of the standard model. Also is curious about what it means for the Higgs field to "give mass" to the other particles

• Fenixgoon writes that the Fermilab experiments are narrowing the search for the Higgs boson

• I gave a summary of why we believe the Higgs boson exists, and how it gives mass to the quarks and leptons, and also why it perfectly explains why the weak gauge boson only interacts at small distances

• rbV5 supplied an update on the status of the LHC

• Fritzo laments the current state of affairs in politics with regards to science

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
Anyone mind providing cliffs for this whole thread?

The standard model of the universe can not explain gravity or mass adequately. A theoretical particle called the Higgs Boson is supposed to explain why there is mass. If we can find it, we can pretty much prove that the universe runs by the standard model.

If it is not found, we were wrong about our views of the universe the whole time.

It's important to note that the Standard Model still does not describe a universe with gravity, even if we include the Higgs. In fact the SM is fundamentally at odds with general relativity, because the SM assumes a background-dependent universe (ie, it posits a quantum vacuum that pervades all of space) while GR requires a background-independent universe. This isn't as trivial a problem as it seems, and the solution will require some underlying theory from which we can derive both GR and the SM, in the same way Newton's laws can be derived from GR.

String Theory and Loop Quantum Gravity are two of the many ideas that may lead to this underlying description of nature.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
i know fermilab is still searching strong thanks to some donations and has narrowed the energy ranges for the boson's existence(wooo!). a big shame, IMO, is that the US could have had a 40(!!!!!) TeV accelerator in texas but congress abandoned it 🙁

as for the topic title... for 99.9999% of people i don't think it will make much a difference. for the scientific universe, it will be the next greatest discovery, just like quantum theory/behavior was for the 20th century.

Yeah, congress is full of people that have no idea what science needs to find in order for us to advance. I always thought we should be governed by the smartest people, not the best speakers. Never works out like that.

The super collider folks choked politically. In testimony before Congress, when asked what the benefits of the super collider would be for the American public the guys on the stand basically said that they didn't envision any practical outcomes from the SCSC experiments and that it would be just neat to know more about elementary particles. Wrong answer. Maybe short sighted but no politician outside of Texas could pass the red face test on continuing funding it after that. If they had thrown Congress any type of bone, super weapons or glow-in-the-dark soft drinks the SCSC might have survived but to say nothing practical would come of the billions being spent was political suicide.

 

[TheVrolok]

Definitely interesting stuff.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
i know fermilab is still searching strong thanks to some donations and has narrowed the energy ranges for the boson's existence(wooo!). a big shame, IMO, is that the US could have had a 40(!!!!!) TeV accelerator in texas but congress abandoned it 🙁

as for the topic title... for 99.9999% of people i don't think it will make much a difference. for the scientific universe, it will be the next greatest discovery, just like quantum theory/behavior was for the 20th century.

Yeah, congress is full of people that have no idea what science needs to find in order for us to advance. I always thought we should be governed by the smartest people, not the best speakers. Never works out like that.

The super collider folks choked politically. In testimony before Congress, when asked what the benefits of the super collider would be for the American public the guys on the stand basically said that they didn't envision any practical outcomes from the SCSC experiments and that it would be just neat to know more about elementary particles. Wrong answer. Maybe short sighted but no politician outside of Texas could pass the red face test on continuing funding it after that. If they had thrown Congress any type of bone, super weapons or glow-in-the-dark soft drinks the SCSC might have survived but to say nothing practical would come of the billions being spent was political suicide.

Exactly- it's a speaker vs. smarts contest. In tribes, the wisest men are the leaders. Anywhere else, those with the most money and the ability to influence are leaders.

They could have said that the breakthrough findings and understanding of universal laws could influence the development of everything from medicine to propulsion to electronics development, not to mention helping to answer the age old question: Why is everything here? Why does everything work the way it does?

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Fritzo
Exactly- it's a speaker vs. smarts contest. In tribes, the wisest men are the leaders. Anywhere else, those with the most money and the ability to influence are leaders.

They could have said that the breakthrough findings and understanding of universal laws could influence the development of everything from medicine to propulsion to electronics development, not to mention helping to answer the age old question: Why is everything here? Why does everything work the way it does?

Either the wisest men, or else those who are strongest and most belligerent.

And people have this tendency to follow a leader without asking questions, often to the point of killing other people, almost always under the pretense of "They're bad, they want to kill us. We're good, so whatever we do is justified."
Guess what the other side's leaders are telling them.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Two points.
I wouldn't count on the Higgs being there. Hawking bet Higgs a hundred bucks it isn't there, and I like Hawking. On the other hand Higgs is a complete jackass who has taken complete credit for that which he merely played a part.

If nature is fair, Higgs will come out looking like a fool 😛

 

[polarmystery]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
Anyone mind providing cliffs for this whole thread?

• OP questions whether the discovery of the Higgs boson would provide real world benefits, and what the discovery would mean in the context of the standard model. Also is curious about what it means for the Higgs field to "give mass" to the other particles

• Fenixgoon writes that the Fermilab experiments are narrowing the search for the Higgs boson

• I gave a summary of why we believe the Higgs boson exists, and how it gives mass to the quarks and leptons, and also why it perfectly explains why the weak gauge boson only interacts at small distances

• rbV5 supplied an update on the status of the LHC

• Fritzo laments the current state of affairs in politics with regards to science

I want to have a :beer: with you. Good job :thumbsup:

 

[Ruptga]

The more I learn about this, the more it makes me think of Mass Effect.

 

[Veramocor]

http://www.quarkdance.org

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

Originally posted by: ADDAvenger
The more I learn about this, the more it makes me think of Mass Effect.

Haha, so true. I was just thinking about this: If we find the particle that gives everything mass, and we can manipulate it, then we can manipulate mass and achieve light speed...oh shit, I think I played a game where this happened.

 

[Analog]

Where is Silverpig?

 

[silverpig]

Your exponent is totally wrong 😛

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: silverpig
Your exponent is totally wrong 😛

LMAO wow did I reall do that? Yeah, that's supposed to be 10^-21, or 1/1,000,0... 😱

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: Analog
Where is Silverpig?

I'm in business school now 😛

It's been a little while since I've done any QFT and I'm not familiar enough with Higgs to be able to explain it off the top of my head, but I can do some reading and come up with something.

 

[FallenHero]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
i know fermilab is still searching strong thanks to some donations and has narrowed the energy ranges for the boson's existence(wooo!). a big shame, IMO, is that the US could have had a 40(!!!!!) TeV accelerator in texas but congress abandoned it 🙁

as for the topic title... for 99.9999% of people i don't think it will make much a difference. for the scientific universe, it will be the next greatest discovery, just like quantum theory/behavior was for the 20th century.

Yeah, congress is full of people that have no idea what science needs to find in order for us to advance. I always thought we should be governed by the smartest people, not the best speakers. Never works out like that.

The smartest people don't always make the best leaders.

 

[JJChicken]

Originally posted by: FallenHero

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
i know fermilab is still searching strong thanks to some donations and has narrowed the energy ranges for the boson's existence(wooo!). a big shame, IMO, is that the US could have had a 40(!!!!!) TeV accelerator in texas but congress abandoned it 🙁

as for the topic title... for 99.9999% of people i don't think it will make much a difference. for the scientific universe, it will be the next greatest discovery, just like quantum theory/behavior was for the 20th century.

Yeah, congress is full of people that have no idea what science needs to find in order for us to advance. I always thought we should be governed by the smartest people, not the best speakers. Never works out like that.

The smartest people don't always make the best leaders.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: Barack Obama

Originally posted by: FallenHero

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
i know fermilab is still searching strong thanks to some donations and has narrowed the energy ranges for the boson's existence(wooo!). a big shame, IMO, is that the US could have had a 40(!!!!!) TeV accelerator in texas but congress abandoned it 🙁

as for the topic title... for 99.9999% of people i don't think it will make much a difference. for the scientific universe, it will be the next greatest discovery, just like quantum theory/behavior was for the 20th century.

Yeah, congress is full of people that have no idea what science needs to find in order for us to advance. I always thought we should be governed by the smartest people, not the best speakers. Never works out like that.

The smartest people don't always make the best leaders.

You know who says that? Dumb people. 🙂

 

[Ruptga]

The best leaders realize they're not the smartest people and hire them as advisors 😛